Israel giving back to the US/Western Military

[GHook93]

Many people, specifically the anti-semite on both the left and right, state how Israel is a leach of the US military and that we prove them so much in defense yet get nothing for the arms sent there. However, there are many ways Israel gives back to the US military. See below:

Israel – Aid to the USA

(1) Two-way independence: In many ways, Israel is the giver and the U.S. is the receiver By Yoram Ettinger "...Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier...saved the U.S. billions of dollars...F-16-responsible for 600 improvements...upgraded Hawkeye spy plane and the MD-500 chopper...bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor...innovative Israeli technologies effect on civilian and agricultural industries... 05 Dec 2005 (2) MIGs toNevada : "Area 51 was used to train Navy and Air Force fighter pilots to fight USSR MiGs. Israel captured many MiGs in 1967, and they gave us a bunch of them. … led directly to the F-4 'Phantom' turning around it's losses in Vietnam to a 14 to 1 kill ratio. They found the MiG's weaknesses and exploited them.” (3) Strategic Alliance: "The U.S. and Israel share an unparalleled strategic relationship. Since a landmark 1985 agreement established the two allies as strategic partners, military cooperation has expanded to include the development of cutting-edge weapons systems, sharing of real-time intelligence and joint training exercises." (2005) (4) "Army Says Israeli Armor Has Saved "Many" U.S. Lives in Iraq. The U.S. Army has thanked Israel for supplying it with armor for armored personnel carriers (APCs) in Iraq, the Israel21c website reported. The Israeli armor has saved "many lives," according to a letter sent by the Army to Rafael, the Israel Armament Development Authority. Israel expedited delivery of the armor to the United States to help protect American APCs from roadside bombs, which have killed more than 150 U.S. servicemen in Iraq.(March 2005) (5) Technology Helps Prevent Mid-Air Mishaps : "Mid-air helicopter crashes may become a thing of the past. The Lahav division of Israel Aircraft Industries has developed a system that predicts collisions during tactical missions and formation flights." (Oct 2004) (6) Ben Gurion University develops anti-missile laser: "used to develop a new airborne missile interception system in the US." (12 Jan 2004) (7) USAF to equip with IAI conformal fuel tanks "F-16s...increase fuel carrying capacity by 50%." (28 Nov 2002) (8) Passenger aircraft - anti-missile interception and detection system. Israeli company to complete development of aoperational system, the Passive Approach Warning System (PAWS), for detecting and disabling missiles fired against passenger aircraft. (9) Light concrete-piercing bomb: …two US companies to jointly produce a revolutionary light-weight bomb capable of penetrating several meters of concrete. The bomb was developed in Israel. (14 Nov 2002) (10) Super-chipsystem: is a global hit. Motorola (NYSE:MOT) recently presented its third generation processors of this type, the PowerQUICC III series,developed in Israel. (12 Nov 2002) (11) Instant messaging program ICQ: …developed in Israel, brought about a breakthrough in US military communications, and made US forces inAfghanistan many times more efficient, … (03 Nov 2002) (12) Aridic Soils: of the United States and Israel ….designed to provide information to assist those who would manage their impact on the soils of arid regions for sustainability…. (13) Bekaa Valley War: June 1982, Israeli ground forces pushed into Lebanon in an effort to put an end to cross-border terror attacks. … [Israeli developed] RPVs went in first to get the Syrian SAMs to turn on their radars. Then the F-4s destroyed them withhigh-speed anti-radiation missiles…critical turning point in the deadly duel offighters and SAMs…operation threw military men (in Moscow) into a kind of shock… made the Soviets understand that Western technology was superior to theirs, and in this Czech general’s view,the blow to the Bekaa Valley SAMs was part of the cascade of events leading tothe collapse of the Soviet Union. (June 2002) (13) Litening II-pluspods: United States has deployed anI sraeli-manufactured airborne targeting pod in the war in Afghanistan…installed on the F-16 multi-role fighters… laser spot capability that an American rival does not possess. (January 2002) (14) ARROW ANTI-MISSILE MISSILE.: IT IS A JOINT PROJECT -- WHERE THE UNITED STATES PROVIDES MOST OF THE MONEY, THE ISRAELIS -- MOST OF THE HIGH-TECH EXPERTISE. ISRAEL IS SHARING RESEARCH LESSONS WITH THE UNITED STATES

Not as much of a parasite that the antisemites preach of!

[Dieval]

So, can anyone name any other significant advances in technology, like those out of Isreal, that have come from other countries in the ME?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Dieval So, can anyone name any other significant advances in technology, like those out of Isreal, that have come from other countries in the ME?

Amazing vests! They are a real crowd killer!

Ok that was a low blow!

[Nono]

So what's the point here? That, economically speaking, there's a post-911 military/security bubble? And that Israel was primed to exploit it? OK, I'll buy that.

Israel would have done the US a lot more good if it had sent a coupla million election observers to oversee the rigged 2000 and 2004 elections.

That's where the US needs all kinds of help.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Nono So what's the point here? That, economically speaking, there's a post-911 military/security bubble? And that Israel was primed to exploit it? OK, I'll buy that.

The point is they are not the blood-sucker that the far left and right make them out to be.

Israel would have done the US a lot more good if it had sent a coupla million election observers to oversee the rigged 2000 and 2004 elections That's where the US needs all kinds of help.

.
LOL, yea people would have been cool with that. No matter who would have won the election there would have been some huge Jewish conspiracy.

[Nono]

Quote by: G. The point is they are not the blood-sucker that the far left and right make them out to be.

I'm on the left. Have I ever said that? It simply ain't an issue.
(laughs) Try again, sonny.

No matter who would have won the election there would have been some huge Jewish conspiracy.

Not a very skilfull deke (or should I say duck?). Surely even you can do better than that.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Nono I'm on the left. Have I ever said that? It simply ain't an issue. (laughs) Try again, sonny. Not a very skilfull deke (or should I say duck?). Surely even you can do better than that.

Never said you were! Rather I was talking more in general.

[Zeebadee]

Let's not forget the fine Israeli contributions such as jonathan pollard and the USS Liberty, not to mention the violations of US agreements under which we supplied Israel with advanced weaponry that they used against Palestinian civilians.

Take your propaganda and shove it.

[thx1138]

Quote by: Zeebadee Let's not forget the fine Israeli contributions such as jonathan pollard and the USS Liberty, not to mention the violations of US agreements under which we supplied Israel with advanced weaponry that they used against Palestinian civilians. Take your propaganda and shove it.

Amen, brother.

[shrike]

Quote by: Zeebadee Let's not forget the fine Israeli contributions such as jonathan pollard and the USS Liberty, not to mention the violations of US agreements under which we supplied Israel with advanced weaponry that they used against Palestinian civilians.

Its ok to America to spy after Israel, but Israel is forbidden to the same. There is nothing extraordinary when allied countries spy on each other.
And USS liberty was mistake but for haters of Jewish state it always guilty.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Zeebadee Let's not forget the fine Israeli contributions such as jonathan pollard and the USS Liberty, not to mention the violations of US agreements under which we supplied Israel with advanced weaponry that they used against Palestinian civilians.

It is not propaganda its the truth! What you are trying to do is deny that there are benefits we receive from them, by nitpicking events that have happened in the last 60 years.
We truely get nothing for all the money and military support we give Pakistan. The military support was to capture OBL and they are even making an attempt. We got nothing from the money and weapons we gave the Afghanis to fight the Soviets, that one back-fired on us big time. What has Egypt given back to us since we have given them all that money? Not a lot! Give it 5 maybe 10 years after we leave Iraq those weapons will be used against us.

Like it or not, for the most part they have been out most reliable allie!

Take your propaganda and shove it.

Watch the personal attacks!

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike Its ok to America to spy after Israel, but Israel is forbidden to the same. There is nothing extraordinary when allied countries spy on each other. And USS liberty was mistake but for haters of Jewish state it always guilty.

At least you admit Israel is a Jewish state, or intended as one. Many aren't as honest (or divorced from reality) regarding Israel. The story only becomes more complicated when Israel "gives back" to America (as if trading military favors is inherently a good thing). I don't think it changes the general direction of things.

And why do you think the USS Liberty must have been a mistake? Why do you assume the 'Jewish state" is always innocent? If it were the "Palestinian Authority" doing such a thing (assuming they would, and that they'd have much chance to get away with it), what would you say?

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 It is not propaganda its the truth! What you are trying to do is deny that there are benefits we receive from them, by nitpicking events that have happened in the last 60 years.

Are events of the last 60 years irrelevant when considering America's relationship with Israel? Analyzing the past, even the relatively distant past, seems reasonable in an attempt to clarify a situation.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

Quote by: granda And why do you think the USS Liberty must have been a mistake? Why do you assume the 'Jewish state" is always innocent?

Becouse Israel is a liberal democracy and like every democracy it have checks and balances.

If it were the "Palestinian Authority" doing such a thing (assuming they would, and that they'd have much chance to get away with it), what would you say?

I am not sure. We have to check each case separately. But we must take in to consideration that PA is not liberal democracy and it didn’t have the same institutes that Israel has.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike Becouse Israel is a liberal democracy and like every democracy it have checks and balances.

So is every government innocent so long as it's a "liberal democracy" (whatever that even means)?
Why should this assumption be accepted?

Quote by: shrike I am not sure.

Of course not. I'd assume it's because you don't want to be seen as having double standards, yet you also don't want to second-guess Israel. Being the nationalist that you are, you can assume Israel is justified in doing virtually anything because it previously was not getting what was "needed."

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

So is every government innocent so long as it's a "liberal democracy" (whatever that even means)?

Yes I believe that democratic country will not act with malice. Because leaders know that there are subjected to regular scrutiny. Also free press plays important role in this case.

Of course not. I'd assume it's because you don't want to be seen as having double standards, yet you also don't want to second-guess Israel. Being the nationalist that you are, you can assume Israel is justified in doing virtually anything because it previously was not getting what was "needed."

Please no personal comments.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike Yes I believe that democratic country will not act with malice. Because leaders know that there are subjected to regular scrutiny.

So Israelis are now incapable of acting out of malice? Very interesting. Also interesting is how you hold "regular scrutiny" up as a virtue, yet you discourage it in practice if it indicates something negative about Israel.
In practice we know it's perfectly fine to scrutinize the Palestine Authority, but Israel is supposed to be off-limits.
Any sane person would question the logic of that.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa Are events of the last 60 years irrelevant when considering America's relationship with Israel? Analyzing the past, even the relatively distant past, seems reasonable in an attempt to clarify a situation. Grandpa h.

Whyt don't you analyze the past in regards to our relationships with other countries in the ME and see if any of those have provided anything even remotely beneficial(other than oil), such as what Isreal has.

[shrike]

So Israelis are now incapable of acting out of malice?

Did I said that?I said leaders of democartatic country that under regual scrutiny will act without malice .

Very interesting. Also interesting is how you hold "regular scrutiny" up as a virtue, yet you discourage it in practice if it indicates something negative about Israel.

Where did I said that? Every country in the world can be subject to criticism only criticism that leveled against Israel is not like against other country. There is countries in the world that have far worse human right record and yet you don't hear that UN condemn them.Why?

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa At least you admit Israel is a Jewish state, or intended as one. Many aren't as honest (or divorced from reality) regarding Israel. The story only becomes more complicated when Israel "gives back" to America (as if trading military favors is inherently a good thing). I don't think it changes the general direction of things. And why do you think the USS Liberty must have been a mistake? Why do you assume the 'Jewish state" is always innocent? If it were the "Palestinian Authority" doing such a thing (assuming they would, and that they'd have much chance to get away with it), what would you say? Grandpa h.

A little off the topic!