Immigration: a threat to national security?

[Lou1svilliberal]

Illegal immigrants will work for less, which drives wages down and is bad for legal US citizens. and the economy. I think that all illegal immigrants should be sent back to Mexico and go to the back of the line, regardless of whether or not they have kids. their kids should be put into the foster home system and receive the same education as you or me; but only if born in America.

[Fulcanelli]

I truly don't agree. Illegal immigrants have moved into this country for a better life. And anyways, how can it hurt the economy. It, in the long run is making life better for us true American's because they are doing the dirty jobs. They keep life going, and without them, we would have to do it. Are you trying to drive them out? BEcause that would be immensley hard and THEY ARE ILLEGAL. The goverment is already trying to get them out. It's as if your asking, "Can we get all the pot out of the country?"
Because it can never be accomplished, maybe in theory, but never in reality.

[Lou1svilliberal]

ive got nothing against legal immagrants, they are good for the economy. has anyone actually tried to get them out?

[Fulcanelli]

Yes, remember the family guy on Fox, where Peter's job toy company fires all the immigrants. This may not be real, but the writers made a good point and it stuck out to me. Stuff happens like this all the time in real life.

[Domino]

It's hard to say what's a threat to the economy, since it's generally considered a zero-sum game, in which someone always wins exactly as much as someone else loses. That might not be a completely accurate view, but it's hard to fault in many cases.

That said, the presence of an inexpensive black market in labor will drive down wages for everyone else, some more directly than others. Given that a large portion of the illegal wages is being sent back to families in other nations, it'll be a while before that karma rolls back into this nation's economy. It's hard to claim that any economy is truly harmed, but this one is mighty inconvenienced, at least from the perspective of labor. For employers, it's great.

And, that's how to get rid of them: enforce the law against the employers. The illegal immigrants are here to work; if they can't get work, they'll leave of their own accord. Assuming the law is (enforced and) sufficiently stringent to make the use of illegal labor unprofitable, businesses will stop using it.

Personally, I think that American business should be ashamed of its inability to put everyone to work at a decent wage. Immigration has made this nation the superpower that it is today, by industriously utilizing the constant incoming stream of talent. The fact that it's suddenly a problem is the single greatest indicator I've seen that our economy is stagnating.

As for being a threat to national security: no more so than it is to have an increasingly disillusioned working-class. The increasing availability of technology makes everyone a threat to national security, and people at home have as much a chance of going crazy as the people on their way here, except the ones at home are already here, and already have the resources. A failing economy and increasing disparity of wealth is our greatest threat to national security.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Domino It's hard to say what's a threat to the economy, since it's generally considered a zero-sum game, in which someone always wins exactly as much as someone else loses. That might not be a completely accurate view, but it's hard to fault in many cases.

People hate immigrants becaus ethey are supposed to conform. If you don't fix your attitude
to everyone else and do not simply despise the wicked foreigners, then you must be like a wicked foreigner yourself.

Some may say bashing immigrants brings the world to new heights, others to new lows. In any case, it's directing our attention away from the police state, the politicians and the super-rich -- those who hold much more sway over the global economy.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Fulcanelli I truly don't agree. Illegal immigrants have moved into this country for a better life.

Have they?
Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals

Quote by: Fulcanelli And anyways, how can it hurt the economy. It, in the long run is making life better for us true American's because they are doing the dirty jobs. They keep life going, and without them, we would have to do it.

Are you saying that people here shouldn't do "dirty jobs"? Is there some reason that US citizens can't do the jobs that illegals are doing?

Quote by: Fulcanelli Are you trying to drive them out? BEcause that would be immensley hard and THEY ARE ILLEGAL.

If they're ILLEGAL, they should be deported.

Quote by: Fulcanelli The goverment is already trying to get them out. It's as if your asking, "Can we get all the pot out of the country?" Because it can never be accomplished, maybe in theory, but never in reality.

Um, no, it's as if we're asking that people to come here legally, stop putting an unneed strain on the finite resources of this country, and follow the laws of our land. Is that so much to ask?

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa People hate immigrants becaus ethey are supposed to conform. If you don't fix your attitude to everyone else and do not simply despise the wicked foreigners, then you must be like a wicked foreigner yourself.

Although I believe you're essentially making this up, but why shouldn't immigrants conform to the US standards? Since they obviously want to be in our fine country, why shouldn't they conform, and do the little things like, learn and use English? That's not to say we're asking them to forget their herritage, but they are living in the US now and English is our primary language.

Quote by: grandpa Some may say bashing immigrants brings the world to new heights, others to new lows. In any case, it's directing our attention away from the police state, the politicians and the super-rich -- those who hold much more sway over the global economy. Grandpa h.

Those eeeeeevil politicians and super-rich people...why can't they all be communists like you??

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Lou1svilliberal Illegal immigrants will work for less, which drives wages down and is bad for legal US citizens. and the economy. I think that all illegal immigrants should be sent back to Mexico and go to the back of the line, regardless of whether or not they have kids. their kids should be put into the foster home system and receive the same education as you or me; but only if born in America.

Americans have, because of the labor unions, largely priced themselves out of the job market. Someone needs to explain why the hell a janitor in an automobile plant has a job that's worth anything close to $20.00 an hour while some NASA-certified electronics technician at a company making pressure sensors is doing a job worth only $13.00 an hour!

I have no problem with legal immigrants and would support doing away with quota systems based on ethnicity or national origin (though I might want to do what other countries do and require immigrants to have a job lined up and the minimum of a four-year college degree). People who come here illegally, however, need to be rounded up and sent back to wherever they came from (and, no, they don't all come from Mexico). Any children they give birth to here should either be put up for adoption or be sent back with their parents (we'll let the parents choose which). Or maybe we can keep the illegals that are willing to work and get rid of the American citizens who don't want to work.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Lou1svilliberal ive got nothing against legal immagrants, they are good for the economy. has anyone actually tried to get them out?

And legal immigrants may eventually become citizens, thus adding to the melting pot that is American society.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Although I believe you're essentially making this up, but why shouldn't immigrants conform to the US standards? Since they obviously want to be in our fine country, why shouldn't they conform, and do the little things like, learn and use English?

Because no one should be compelled to conform to elitism, that's why.
People can typically fare better without the state harassing them.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chancellor And legal immigrants may eventually become citizens, thus adding to the melting pot that is American society.

Well, the perpetual "Melting Pot" Renaissance you support becomes less rosy when it features a government boot on people's necks.

Grandpa h.

[Stizzles]

Quote by: grandpa Well, the perpetual "Melting Pot" Renaissance you support becomes less rosy when it features a government boot on people's necks.

Maybe it's just been my experience, but I think government boots have been less responsible for American deaths than immigrants like the 9/11 conspirators. The more security, the better.

Since they obviously want to be in our fine country, why shouldn't they conform, and do the little things like, learn and use English? That's not to say we're asking them to forget their herritage, but they are living in the US now and English is our primary language.

...which some of us have yet to master.

Why shouldn't they conform? Well, first off, because they don't have to if they don't want to. It isn't the government's place to make sure people conform to our national identity; it is the government's place to prevent or recooperate damages from demonstrable harm, but making sure that everyone speaks the right language? That everyone has the right beliefs and ideas? You're sounding less like the Federalist Papers and more like the Know Nothings.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Stizzles Maybe it's just been my experience, but I think government boots have been less responsible for American deaths than immigrants like the 9/11 conspirators. The more security, the better.

That's a fascinating viepwoint, and you provide no evidence whatsoever. Can you illustrate how only immigrant terrorists have perfused the world with violence, and that the US government has no violent history toward any foreign civilians?

Als, can you elaborate on why we must classify some people as "illegal" in order to have security measures?

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa Because no one should be compelled to conform to elitism, that's why. People can typically fare better without the state harassing them. Grandpa h.

Conforming by learning English, essentially the language of the US, is hardly elitism... try again.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Stizzles ...which some of us have yet to master.

Well, excuse the hell out of me for misspelling 1 word in my post.

Quote by: Stizzles Why shouldn't they conform? Well, first off, because they don't have to if they don't want to. It isn't the government's place to make sure people conform to our national identity; it is the government's place to prevent or recooperate damages from demonstrable harm, but making sure that everyone speaks the right language? That everyone has the right beliefs and ideas? You're sounding less like the Federalist Papers and more like the Know Nothings.

I don't recalling saying that the government should force people to learn English...I said they should conform and learn our language..if they're not even willing to take even that small step, do they really have the best interests of the US at heart?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Conforming by learning English, essentially the language of the US, is hardly elitism... try again.

How is mandating a language not elitist?

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval if they're not even willing to take even that small step, do they really have the best interests of the US at heart?

Why should anyone, let alone Mexican immigrants, have "at heart" the interests of any system that attempts to restrict and regulate culture, even the very language people speak?

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa How is mandating a language not elitist? Grandpa h.

Mandating? Did I say mandating? I said they should conform and learn our language. If I moved to France, I wouldn't expect everyone there to learn English to suit my needs, but rather me learning theirs would be far more appropriate.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa Why should anyone, let alone Mexican immigrants, have "at heart" the interests of any system that attempts to restrict and regulate culture, even the very language people speak? Grandpa h.

Not sure why you're singling out Mexican immigrants..I said nothing about them in particular.....but, why should people come here, or live here for that matter, if they don't care about this country?