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Sep 5, 2003, 07:58 pm
| #61 (permalink) (top) |
| Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848 | Actually I had fun with that post, it was designed to point something out that I knew would be missed. It was a no-lose situation. If you accepted it 'as is' you proved my point on the point I gave in the post. If you proved me wrong, then you would have to further distort reality in order to make this silly theory work. In which case you would be wide open to the same tactic... It did not occur to me that you would only question my figures and not bother to prove anything... Yes, Americans use a lot of resources, we also make a disporportiant number of the advances both industrial, and medical. So go ahead and cry, it is not your right to decide how we live. |
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Sep 6, 2003, 09:00 pm
| #62 (permalink) (top) |
 Fyrdman  Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152 | As long as it doesn't infringe on our rights. Which it often does. Which is why we moan a lot, as our governments do nothing to change this situation. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill |
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Sep 6, 2003, 09:48 pm
| #63 (permalink) (top) | |
| Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739 | Quote:
. . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. | |
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Sep 6, 2003, 10:58 pm
| #64 (permalink) (top) | |
| Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152 | Quote:
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill | |
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Sep 8, 2003, 04:19 am
| #66 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter  Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | The American hating is not as described, not everyone critical of US foreign policy is wrong (the Americans certainly aren't perfect). But there are quite a few who do have that 'knee-jerk' reaction to anything the US does and this makes no sense either. Interventionism may be necessary if all other means have been exhausted or are of no avail. The US has intervened for less than altruistic reasons before, but they have to call these something else (it wouldn't be diplomatic to explicitly state they intervened to "encircle" an enemy or "secure" some strategic point). The targetting of some human rights violators and not others may be a consequence of inability to tackle them all at once and a need to prioritize. 'Support' for tyrannies is something more prevalent in the past than of late and even so is moderated by other sensible considerations like strategic location enemity with one's enemies, natural resources, local and regional stability. Pursuit of 'national interest' is what foreign policy is supposed to do, not some obsessive American aberration (I'm sure even Euros would be outraged if their foreign ministries were shown to pursue a foreign policy contrary to their 'national interest'). Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff |
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Sep 8, 2003, 05:12 am
| #67 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock Posts: 5 | G'day, this is my first post, im an 18 yr old male in western australia currently at uni studying engineering. who is to say that america is right in what it does, i think this is the problem. its impossible for the whole world to agree on any course of action and so it is generally left up to the people making the changes to decide what these changes should be. inevitably this means that several nations will be outraged at the way values they hold as important are replaced by those of, in many cases america, though this also applies to the u.n. i believe because as a collective we have another, different, set of values altogether. there seems to be a tendency (and i might be sailing a bit close to the america bashing wind here) for america to influence another nation in such a way as to make it more like itself. americans, in my experience, without exception love their country and what it stands for, though many may hate the way it is managed. principals like democacy, freedom and liberty form the basis of what many would call the right way to live, but this does not apply to everyone. it seems that america is not able to understand people not wanting to be like them and this means they sometimes impose unwanted ideals on a people honestly thinking they are liberating them. america wields great influence but its not just military or political influence, its also cultural. the fact that they are so big often means they get stuck with the shittest jobs. if something is broken they have the most power to fix it and so it is left up to them. the rest of the world cannot complain too loudly when they just sit back and expect america to take care of it for them, then are unhappy with the results. what i find unacceptable is when the views of the rest of the world are actively ignored in a kind of "well, whadda ya gonna do about it if we do?" kind of attitude. if the global community wants more influence in how their world is run we need to take a more active stance. america does much good for the world but in many cases i believe they need to consider "but what if were wrong?". Mitch |
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Sep 8, 2003, 07:17 am
| #68 (permalink) (top) | |
  Neo Moderator  Location: England Posts: 5,549 | Quote:
We lead the cloning business? Excellent. But I think the US still has the lead on GM don't they? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before | |
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Sep 8, 2003, 09:20 am
| #69 (permalink) (top) | |||
| Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152 | Quote:
To the best of my knowledge they do. Which is why they want everyone else to give up organic food. You know they have developed plants that doesn't produce any seeds for the next crop, so the farmers keep having to buy more next year. Thats why they want GM everywhere. I think the best way to solve famine while still retaining capitalism would be for the UN to buy up land all across the world and start producing wheats, barley and potatoes that it distributes across the world to famine riddled zones. But this won't happen because 'shock! horror!' it might damage free trade in these zones. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill | |||
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Sep 8, 2003, 06:30 pm
| #70 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 20 | I'm American. I have a big problem with Bush. I don't agree with his political agenda at all. I think he is a fool. He is costing our country billions upon billions of dollars with his war, and an end doesn't seem to be anywhere in the future. He says we are invading Iraq because of the terrorists it harbors. And he says they could have supplied weapons to people like Osama Bin Ladin. Osama Bin Ladin didn't agree with Iraq, he actually hated Iraq. I'm fairly sure that no "weapons of mass distruction" were found in Iraq throughout this whole war. I know that Sadam Hussein is a bad guy, but I don't feel that George W. Bush has the write to break international law and invade regardless to what other countries say. It really just makes me sick when people start saying "you eurotrash", we did this, we did that for you. Who cares. Thanks to Bush, our country is in the biggest budget deficit ever. I can't wait until this idiot gets voted out of his Presidency. |
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Sep 8, 2003, 09:41 pm
| #71 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock Posts: 7 | That's if he gets voted out in 2004.. sadly, the media has been doing its job to kiss up to Bush. And there really isn't anyone who can stand up to Bush ATM. And America is a republic, not a democracy. That itself, can answer many questions. |
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Sep 9, 2003, 09:09 am
| #72 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739 | Since when did the process get reversed? I thought most presidents were voted IN, not OUT. =p . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. |
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Sep 9, 2003, 04:22 pm
| #74 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739 | I'd agree with you there, but I don't ever remember voting him in. =P That, and the Reaganite zealotry will inquisition your ass for that statement. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. |
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Sep 10, 2003, 10:57 pm
| #75 (permalink) (top) |
| Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848 | Thrillofit I happen to find people that decide on the ability of others totally by their personal feelings on the person amusing. Do you have evidence to back your claims or are just in the bashing mentality simply because you do not like him? Frankly, I do not like the agenda currently being followed either, but I am not ignorant enough to let my "feelings" make decisions that should be made with an entirely different section of the mind. |
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Sep 10, 2003, 11:03 pm
| #76 (permalink) (top) |
| Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848 | Mitch I am an American Electrical Engineering major, so I suppose I am your 'other side of the world' counterpart. I read your post and have a few questions. First, what right do those that are not in the field have to make the decisions. Second, why should the one that has to lay the foundation be expected to lay a big enough fondation for those that follow him. Third, why does their needs matter, he is the one doing the work. While I do not believe it is our right to deny other countries to gain the benefit of our advances, I do not see why we are expected to gift wrap them... |
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Sep 11, 2003, 08:01 pm
| #77 (permalink) (top) | |
| Sedimentary Rock Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 20 | Quote:
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Sep 11, 2003, 11:56 pm
| #78 (permalink) (top) |
| Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848 | Prove?? You rendered your opinion only, how can I prove that it is not your opinion, only you know that... If you want to debate a point offer some evidence or a statement, I am not going to tell you what your opinion is, I have no way to know. |
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Sep 16, 2003, 06:48 am
| #79 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Posts: 35 | "Downwiththestereotype" ... Wow! ... "When europe was the evil of the world, colnising raping and burning the third world, we had bows and arrows, swords and at best oversized slingshots. But of course now, is the age of the bomb, america could wipe the world out hundreds of times over, and if america is raising people like you then there is little hope for any of us. I sympathise with you my friend, i really do, but behind that, im absolutely petrified." Despite the spelling errors, I just wish to concur with your insights! ... Awesome! ... And, I am an American ... An Asian-American, but an American, born and raised an American! ... And, I am proud of our great country, but sad at the current course the current leaders of our great country seem to wish to force us all to travel! ... There is a cartoon referred to in the article on this link ... My Webpage Bush is pushing away a Japanese fishing boat saying ... "I can fish better." ... Hmmm ... Symbolically, I am offended by that reasoning on the part of Bush ... He is our current President, but he is certainly not representing the majority of Americans and how we think and feel ... The latest polls say this, unequivocally! ... Most Americans do not support the way Bush is "throwing his weight around" in the world ... Americans, as a general rule, abhor "bullies," and Bush is behaving very much like a "bully." This is not good for the world, this is not good for the blessed United States of America! ... It simply is not! ... |
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Sep 16, 2003, 09:53 am
| #80 (permalink) (top) |
| Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152 | Europe didn't colonise the world with weapons, we did it with trade. But when economic growth slowed, we used weapons to maintain our place. This is what is also happening now in America, the trading empire is slipping so it requires force to maintain it. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill |
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