America Haters

[The Fyrdman]

Sodfather, you claim that these 'america haters' are are stereotyping ignorants. Isn't that a stereotype itself? Especially the lash at Holland?

[Sodfather]

First off, your whole post is nonsense, read my post correctly ebfore wasting your time on your own.

Originally posted by greendeath@Aug 31 2003, 01:52 AM
I am not an America-hater, but an America-disliker. Why? Bush. You sit and claim that people who do not have the best of thoughts on America are "uneducated", yet you fail to realize that proper education does not come from the media.

I read this first paragraph and decided to not take the rest of it seriously for you proved my point in only a few statements.

you fail to realize that proper education does not come from the media.

Thank you, I couldn't have said it better. Where have you gotten your education on America? Do they have courses on the America-Iraq situation in European colleges and high schools already? Not unless some crazy stenographer wrote a new textbook and published it in a few months. So where do you get your education on us, my friend? Where did you get your extensive knowledge of our culture? Chances are you haven't been in America for more than a month if at all. THE MEDIA, EXACTLY! ALL OF YOUR OPINIONS HAVE BEEN FORMED BY THE MEDIA.

you fail to realize that proper education does not come from the media.

THEREFORE, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PROPERLY EDUCATED ABOUT AMERICA AND WHAT IT'S CITIZENS ARE LIKE, AND WHAT THEY THINK, AND WHAT THEY APPROVE AND DISAPPROVE OF, AND WHAT MILITARY ACTIONS THEY APPROVE OF, AND WHAT LAWS THEY APPROVE OF, and the list of what you think you know from your television overseas can go on and on and on. We are a diverse people with diverse opinions, you cannot see an interview of one senator, one citizen, a hundred citizens, on television and assume that that is the general belief in America!

Case closed, you're a fool. :(

[Sodfather]

Ohhhhh no, oh no, oh no. Why did I read into your post further, greendeath?

Now about stereotypes, is America not the leader in coming up with, what they think, are witty outbursts made towards religions, beliefs, and cultures other than their own? This is a hypocritical statement indeed. My country is not "drab" enough to base my disliking on America for no reason, as many reasons contribute to this...including the same stereotypes which you speak of. I come from Canada, and I'm sure the first thing that pops into your head is "EH? ABOOT!" Thank you for building my own arguement for me, hypocrite.

All you do is speak of America as one central mass of stereotyping hypocrites...YOU DON'T KNOW ME, YOU'VE READ ONE POST BY ME, WITH NO STEREOTYPING CONTAINED IN IT, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I'M AUTOMATICALLY A STEREOTYPNG HYPOCRITE! If you...Are that stupid...To compose a sentence putting stereotyping and hypocrisy down...And then going on to prove yourself to be exactly what you've denounced, a stereotyper and a hypocrite...Leave these damn forums.

[thrice]

oh man, if this is how it's going to be around here, then I'm out. This is no "healty" debate. Mrhotdog or whatever, you're absolutely ridiculous...

[Sean]

don't worry Thrice..I feel the same way. I also received a report message in my email..he's gone.

[The Fyrdman]

Ahh, us foreigners know nothing of terrorism, do we?

Private american citizens have been the principle sponsers of the IRA (Provos), who have killed 2000 people over the last 30 years.

The UK minorities suffer about 5 deaths a year by Combat 18, a militant fascist group.

Spain has had over a 1000 deaths from killings by ETA, the Basque seperatists armed group.

Germany had multiple bombs, deaths and the kidnap of one of its tycoons by Baader Meinhoff and its Red Brigade.

Greece and Italy continually suffer attacks from multiple left wing terrorist groups, including November 17 and the Red Army.

The people of Iraq suffered a dictator for 30 odd years, Saddam, because he and his party were thought to be a good deal for the US and UK. His group got in through terrorism.

The Sandinista government, its mandate ratified by election after its coup, was continually plagued by Contra's, the CIA funded, organised and trained Christian terrorist group.

Hell, I can't be bothered going through the rest of the latin american countries specifics, but Argentina, Brazil and Guatemala are among countries suffering from US sponsered terrorism. Not forgetting Ortega and Noriega, both who went through training at the CIA 'School of the Americas', who went on to use those counter revolutionary skills to lead bloody coups and dictatorships for themselves.

Dammit, we empathised with America with its loss, but you can't just emotionally blackmail people into supporting more killings.

You know why Europe is generally pacifist? Because we've had two world wars here. The US has not had nightly bombing raids plaguing its cities for years on end. Its not had tanks rolling through its streets. Its not had 40 million dead on its continent from war in the space of 6 years. Thats why were not eager to inflict the same pain on others again, and thats why we get pissed at the US gov. when it attacks countries for jumped up reasons, because your making the same mistakes we did.

[thrice]

You know why Europe is generally pacifist? Because we've had two world wars here. The US has not had nightly bombing raids plaguing its cities for years on end. Its not had tanks rolling through its streets. Its not had 40 million dead on its continent from war in the space of 6 years. Thats why were not eager to inflict the same pain on others again, and thats why we get pissed at the US gov. when it attacks countries for jumped up reasons, because your making the same mistakes we did

Extremely good point.

[The Fyrdman]

Sodfather, where else did you get your information on the Iraq War 2003 if not the media? Or are you actually a government insider?

And Europe is in a better position up here on our fence, where our views are less obstructed by the most complacent and complient media in the western world (except Italy, god thats a mess that needs sorting).

[Sodfather]

Originally posted by G. Adams@Aug 31 2003, 07:55 PM
Sodfather, where else did you get your information on the Iraq War 2003 if not the media? Or are you actually a government insider?

I admitted it was wrong, I said in my first post we've made mmmannnnyyy mistakes, but that's not my point. My point was that foreigners hate all Americans because they stereotype us all as warmongers who think Iraq had it coming. They think we are all fools and believe that the war was to free the Iraqi people. Bullshit, I know that's not why, I'm asking, "Where are the WMD's?" along with all of you! That's my point! We do not all feel the same, we don't all agree with the U.S.'s choices during the past year, we don't all believe the protecting of freedom bullshit!

Do you understand now?

[The Fyrdman]

Ahh, well if thats what your arguing, I'm afraid to say there arn't many 'anti-americans' and the brand you dislike. Most of us who get lumped into that category respect Americans (except for you all being burger munching couch potatoes...) and particularly the US Constitution. Even hardened commies would die alongside you fighting for freedom of speech. Its not our fault that there are people out there who like to jump onto the bandwagon.

Mind you, if America really was a democracy, its government would be representative of its people. So the actions of its government are also the responsibility of the American people. This goes for every country. Just shows up how much of a sham our supposed demcracies are.

Oh, and while were on the topic of stereotypes, I'd like to get a rant of my chest.

I am British.

I do not: drink tea and eat crumpets all day
love, like or respect the royal family in any way
speak with a drollllllllllllllllllliiing upper class accent. I sound more like the people from Trainspotting
And most of all I do not know your friend John from London. I know we are a small country in comparison, but we don't all know each other.

[Sodfather]

Originally posted by G. Adams@Aug 31 2003, 08:31 PM
Mind you, if America really was a democracy, its government would be representative of its people.

True, but first of all, approval can be as low as 3/5, not all of the American people. Only 3/5 majority of the senators need to support the war for it to happen, the other 2/5 can be just as against the war as I am. And don't forget corruption, these reps can have their own agenda in mind, not what the people they represent want. Trust me, a good deal of the reps who voted for the war will be out of office next election.

[The Fyrdman]

I hope so, but if there was a real democracy there would be the power of recall, and those people could be shifted now.

I'm more worried about my own government. Theres no way I'm voting Labour after they sheepishly fell in line. Yeah some revolted but they have done little more than token jestures, knowing full well that the war would go ahead, meaning their objection could be dismissed. The Conservatives are worse than Labour, and I would vote them whatever their policies, they're right wing, I'm left. The Liberal Democrats, the only others left with a shot at government are political oppurtunists. Sure they're social democrat right now but they'll go whichever way the wind blows. That leaves me with the Socialist Alliance, disorganised and dominated by a Stalinist and bureaucratic SWP, the British National Party, neo-nazi scum, or the Green Party, in favour of reducing Britain to 20 million people. Excuse me, their are already 60 million of us, how are we gonna go to one third of that without sterilisation? Where the hell is my 'abstain' box.