Why does the Armenian Independence (which I am for) not get the same scrutiny?

[GHook93]

The Soviet breakup - Europe - MSNBC.com

Armenia received its independence in 1918 shortly after the Armenian Genocide in WW I (although the Soviet "incorporated" it within the USSR in the 30s).They had locals (Azerbaijan) that created problems and were expelled!

Yet this country, who inhabitants were vicitms of a genocide, gets no scrutiny like the Jews get who were victims of a much larger genocide!

[GHook93]

Funny the anti-semites say away from this one! :(

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Funny the anti-semites say away from this one! :(

How does that make anyone "anti-Semitic?" If you criticize Armenian expulsions, doe sit make you anti-Armenian? Am I absolutely "anti-Turkish" because I object to their genocide or their banning of the Kurdish language? No.

Maybe people don't respond because your point is nonsense.

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa How does that make anyone "anti-Semitic?" If you criticize Armenian expulsions, doe sit make you anti-Armenian? Am I absolutely "anti-Turkish" because I object to their genocide or their banning of the Kurdish language? No. Maybe people don't respond because your point is nonsense. Grandpa h.

It doesn't make them anti-semitic, but I think it is funny that probably the a good portion of the people who will support an independent Armenia, will be against an Independent Israel.

For the record I am 100% for an independent Armenia. They were the victims of genocide. They needed a country of their own to feel safe, same with the Jews and Kurds!

Can't blame the Turks this point for their reaction toward the Kurds. The Kurds are committing terrorist acts and then hitting inside Kurdistan!

[notworthabean]

not at all-his point is very good,. If all was equal then this would get a lot of attetnion, his point is this proves theres an element of jew hatred in the cirticism of israel.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: GHook93 It doesn't make them anti-semitic, but I think it is funny that probably the a good portion of the people who will support an independent Armenia, will be against an Independent Israel. For the record I am 100% for an independent Armenia. They were the victims of genocide. They needed a country of their own to feel safe, same with the Jews and Kurds! Can't blame the Turks this point for their reaction toward the Kurds. The Kurds are committing terrorist acts and then hitting inside Kurdistan!

I'm in favor of any genuine ethnic group (like the Armenians but not like the "Palestinians") having their own independent state. I am opposed to the United States of America involving itself in a particular group's struggle for such a state.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Chancellor I'm in favor of any genuine ethnic group (like the Armenians but not like the "Palestinians") having their own independent state. I am opposed to the United States of America involving itself in a particular group's struggle for such a state.

US primarily stay out of the struggle militarily. Yes yes yes they give a boat load of money to Israel, but they also give a boat load to the Pals!

[Chancellor]

Quote by: GHook93 US primarily stay out of the struggle militarily. Yes yes yes they give a boat load of money to Israel, but they also give a boat load to the Pals!

The United States should stay out of other nations' internal affairs entirely.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 It doesn't make them anti-semitic, but I think it is funny that probably the a good portion of the people who will support an independent Armenia, will be against an Independent Israel. For the record I am 100% for an independent Armenia.

If it doesn't make someone "anti-Semitic," then why do you throw that term around with reckless abandon? I agree there are anti-Semitic people, but that doesn't mean we should regard Israel as akin to some Jewish Messiah state.

I am against an independent Israeli state, and I'm also against any "Armenian" state.
I'm also against an all-Christian state, or an all-white state, or what have you. In fact, I'm against states in general, precisely because so many of them behave like Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the US, etc.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chancellor The United States should stay out of other nations' internal affairs entirely.

This reminds me of a quote by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz:
"I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of
Iraq."



Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: grandpa This reminds me of a quote by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz: "I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq." Grandpa h.

It's a shame he didn't practice what he preached! Oh, wait, yes he did: he doesn't consider Americans to be "foreigners."

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa If it doesn't make someone "anti-Semitic," then why do you throw that term around with reckless abandon? I agree there are anti-Semitic people, but that doesn't mean we should regard Israel as akin to some Jewish Messiah state. I am against an independent Israeli state, and I'm also against any "Armenian" state. I'm also against an all-Christian state, or an all-white state, or what have you. In fact, I'm against states in general, precisely because so many of them behave like Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the US, etc. Grandpa h.

I know I know you are an anarchist! But you usually argue for the creation of a Palestinian State (which is a just cause), so you I'm against all states stance is hyprocritical. Especially since you direct most of that stance toward Israel or the JEWISH State.

You might not like a central government, but no government leads to nothing! No government is for non-social animals and humans don't fit that mold (OK some do :))!

[rmnunez]

I think we should officially recognize the suffering endured by the Armenians in their genocide, just that it isn't very opportune right now.

Condemning the Turks for what happened about a century ago right now has more to do with interfering with their cooperation in the effort in Iraq than anything else. Fortunately the bill is losing support:

Worried about antagonizing Turkish leaders, House members from both parties have begun to withdraw their support from a resolution supported by the Democratic leadership that would condemn as genocide the mass killings of Armenians nearly a century ago. Almost a dozen lawmakers had shifted against the measure over the last 24 hours, accelerating a sudden exodus that has cast deep doubt over the measure’s prospects. Some representatives made clear that they were heeding warnings from the White House, which has called the measure dangerously provocative, and from the Turkish government, which has said House passage would prompt Turkey to reconsider its ties to the United States, including logistical support for the Iraq war. Until today, the resolution appeared to be on a path to House passage, with strong support from the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California. Support Wanes in House for Genocide Vote - New York Times

[GHook93]

Quote by: rmnunez I think we should officially recognize the suffering endured by the Armenians in their genocide, just that it isn't very opportune right now. Condemning the Turks for what happened about a century ago right now has more to do with interfering with their cooperation in the effort in Iraq than anything else. Fortunately the bill is losing support:

I agree, recognition is definitely over-due, but you are also correct that is not the right time.

Nevertheless, the Aremian genocide was a motivating factor for creating Aremian after teh collaspe of the Soviet Union. There were locals in the area, Azerbaijanis people who were driven from their homes and a separate state of Azerbaijan 2 years after Aremia was created. The Aremians were Christians and the Azerbaijanis were Muslims. They went to war over land disputes. Azerbaijan was created, but there was never a right of return enacted. In fact Aremia has relatively no Azerbaijanis in their country and vice versa.

This Aremian/Azerbaijani conflict have striking similarities to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (and yes some striking differences). Ethnic peoples displacement, recent declaration of independence, victims of a genocide, unfair and brutal treatment by the Soviets, a region in which the countries' border were recently drawn up by a super-power at after the fall of an empire, a blood war erupted shortly after the birth if its nation etc. Yet no one ever questions the Soviet's decisions to create an independent Aremian, nor no one calls for a right of return for the Azerbaijanis.

I think this largely has to do with the fact that the Aremians are Christians and the Israelis are Jews! Also because the inhabitants (other than Russia) do not have large oil reserves for the West. Also some could be attributed to Israel has a lot to do with the origins of the 3 Abrahamic religions!

[jose]

So for years they have been able to manipulate the Armenian mind making them think that the Muslims were the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide, for years it has been passed such. Lately there are proofs to researchers and to historians that it was Talaat and the rest of this non-human individuals, who were crypto-Jews, who perpetrated the Armenian Genocide. In your own opinion, did you do research on how they kept this secret? They kept it secret because they maintain a strong hold on the Turkish government, and they set the Turkish government up to deny that the Genocide even occurred and thereby implicate the Turkish people as the instigators and the perpetrators of it, because people don’t realize that the Turkish government is actually run by Donmeh Jews. And they were also able to do it by limiting the influence of the Turkish government, after they have destroyed the Turkish empire they made it a very independent force under Ataturk, they got rid of idea of any imperialism and therefore they were able to alienate themselves from the Armenian people and put them (the Soviet Republic of Armenia) under the control of Soviet Jews. And another thing is that they had great influence in the mass media and in the governments of the world and they have consistently tried to block the spread of information about the Armenian Genocide. Just a decade ago it was almost unheard of [the Armenian Genocide], not many people were even aware of it let alone aware of the fact that it was actually a Jewish Genocide perpetrated against the Armenian Christians.

Armenian News - PanARMENIAN.Net | Armenian News Agency - Christopher J. Bjerknes on the Armenian Genocide, Part II
further reading
Armenian Genocide Research - Genocide: Conceptual and Historical Dimensions
Ataturk Confessed to Being Jewish | Wake Up From Your Slumber

[GHook93]

Quote by: jose Armenian News - PanARMENIAN.Net | Armenian News Agency - Christopher J. Bjerknes on the Armenian Genocide, Part II further reading Armenian Genocide Research - Genocide: Conceptual and Historical Dimensions Ataturk Confessed to Being Jewish | Wake Up From Your Slumber

Are you F'ing kidding me! Your going to blame the Aremian Genocide on the Jews. That is worst than blaming 9/11 on the Jews. I won't even argue this. Jose you just entered my my ignore list! Have a great life!

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 I know I know you are an anarchist! But you usually argue for the creation of a Palestinian State (which is a just cause), so you I'm against all states stance is hyprocritical.

You haven't illustrated any hypocrisy. I never advocated a Palestinian state, at least not that I recall.
In fact, I've responded directly to you on this issue before.
I once typed, "...I think we need to consider a 'no-state' solution."
I then provided the following link, which is very well argued and written:
The Gulf war- No state solution is a good solution

Anyway, my posts here contradict your premise that opposing Israel is instantly "anti-Semitic."
Just as bad is how harsh criticism of Israel supposedly instantly equals lying.

You may be right about one thing, though. If one is opposed to a Palestinian or Muslim state, they should oppose a Jewish or Christian one as well.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Are you F'ing kidding me! Your going to blame the Aremian Genocide on the Jews.

You might be right to not debate this point. Those do indeed seem like deceptive articles, trying to pin it all on Jews. That'd be like me simply saying Christianity was the only factor contributing to chattel slavery.

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa You might be right to not debate this point. Those do indeed seem like deceptive articles, trying to pin it all on Jews. That'd be like me simply saying Christianity was the only factor contributing to chattel slavery. Grandpa h.

Safe the post we actually agree on something! :)

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Safe the post we actually agree on something! :)

I think everyone should agree with this:
Christians, Muslims or Jews are not absolutely monolithic in character.

Grandpa h.