Bush urges rejection of Armenian genocide bill:

[Praxius]

CTV.ca | Bush urges rejection of Armenian genocide bill

The White House is urging Congress to reject legislation that would classify the First World War-era killings of Armenians as genocide. "This resolution is not the right response to these historic mass killings," U.S. President George Bush told reporters Wednesday. The comments follow a meeting Bush held with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Rice and Gates issued a joint appeal earlier Wednesday, hours before the House Foreign Affairs Committee was to vote on the issue. "This is not to ignore what was a really terrible situation and we recognize the feelings of those who want to express their concern and their disdain for what happened many years ago," Rice said. "But the passage of this resolution at this time would indeed be very problematic for everything we are trying to do in the Middle East because we are very dependent on a good Turkish strategic ally to help with our efforts," she said. The basic dispute surrounds the 1915 massacres of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks -- widely viewed by scholars as the first genocide of the 20th century. Turkey denies that the event was genocide, claiming the toll has been inflated and that the deaths were the result of civil war and unrest. Turkish officials are warning that the move could damage relations between the two countries. The U.S. military uses Turkey, a NATO ally, as a major portal for operations in Iraq. "I have been trying to warn the (U.S.) lawmakers not to make a historic mistake," said Egemen Bagis, a close foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Seventy per cent of U.S. air cargo destined for Iraq flows through Turkey as does about a third of fuel used by the military in Iraq, Gates said Wednesday. "Access to air fields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and Turkey reacts as strongly as we believe they will," Gates said. Gates also said that 95 per cent of the new Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles are flying through Turkey to get to Iraq. The U.S. Embassy in Ankara warned U.S. citizens in Turkey Wednesday of "demonstrations and other manifestations of anti-Americanism" if the bill is approved. If the House Foreign Affairs Committee passes the legislation, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi could then decide to bring it to a vote before the full House of Representatives. Many Democrats in the Democrat-controlled Congress support the resolution. Meanwhile, reports emerged Wednesday that Turkey began shelling suspected Kurdish rebel camps in Northern Iraq. The U.S. opposes the action, fearing a new war front in the most stable part of the country. The Turkish government is currently seeking parliamentary approval to conduct a cross-border military operation in the region.

My god can't these people make one damn correct decision for once?

They admit it occured, they admit that it was a tragic event.... yet they don't wish to seek public justice and awareness to this, because it'd hurt operations in Iraq and make things less incovienant.... dollars and cents quite honestly. It's all about what bennifits the Bush War, rather then actually seeking truth and justice and at least trying to get some aknowlegement of what happend for the families of thse people who suffered and/or died.

They continually make decisions that P.O'z the rest of the world, but when it comes to the right decisions to be made, they claim they won't because it'll P.O. the rest of the world...... well actually, just Turkey who's apparently responsible for this historical gennocide.

Oh, but it'll put a damper and hamper on US operations in Iraq because they rely on Turkey for most transportation and such..... so it's just an incocvieance to admit something actually occured in the past...... and they're bending over backwards on blackmail basically.

I personally say Ballz to Bush and Ballz to Rice and their idiotic existance.

And please don't remind me that it's for protection of your troops in Iraq and to ensure a successful mission/pullout..... I am aware of this.

But this is just like a judge about to sentance a serial killer who is obviously guitly, but since the guy has something to blackmail the judge, the judge turns a blind eye. (Metaphor)

[PatrickHenry]

Why should we expect any better from a known war criminal?

[Milton Bradley]

The justification was the key to the whole speech. Denying justice to untold numbers of people because it "could interfere with current military operations", priceless, just priceless.


Everything that comes out of Wiretaps mouth makes me ill.

[HelioPrime]

Why should we create tensions over the past.

1.5 million dead is 1.5 million dead.

I'm sure the Turks arn't out there now killing people left and right, changing the official view of the war will only create tension and give rise to hatreds.

I won't deny Bush's backward justification for not supporting this but a war almost 100 years old isn't worth giving rise to old hatreds.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Milton Bradley The justification was the key to the whole speech. Denying justice to untold numbers of people because it "could interfere with current military operations", priceless, just priceless. Everything that comes out of Wiretaps mouth makes me ill.

Since this happened so long ago, and we basically had nothing to do with it, just what good will this do anyway? How does this, yet another pointless resolution, deny ANYTHING to anyone, or how does passing it GIVE anything to anybody?

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Since this happened so long ago, and we basically had nothing to do with it, just what good will this do anyway? How does this, yet another pointless resolution, deny ANYTHING to anyone, or how does passing it GIVE anything to anybody?

Because if its official that the Turks commited genocide then its a basis for Europest poorest country to demand money or other goods as reconciliation?

[Chancellor]

Why do we need a resolution from Congress to decide that the event was an attempted genocide. Why the hell can't we just leave it up to HISTORY to decide?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Since this happened so long ago, and we basically had nothing to do with it, just what good will this do anyway? How does this, yet another pointless resolution, deny ANYTHING to anyone, or how does passing it GIVE anything to anybody?

Just trying to avoid the old cliche about the winners writing the history.


As always, I prefer the unrevised truth.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chancellor Why do we need a resolution from Congress to decide that the event was an attempted genocide. Why the hell can't we just leave it up to HISTORY to decide?

Because in the past, if this was delt with in the first place, then our current history would be different. Instead, they got away with murder, it kinda turned into a cold case, and forggotten about.....

It's about justice and the truth, and you're trying to argue it holds no relation to today?

How many other countries in the world have had the smack down because of actions such as this?

Germany? The Soviets? Bosnia? Darfur?

But here you are telling us to just forget about it. In a sense, this is just accepting Turkey's actions and saying it's ok..... from a so-call country who is on a war on terrorism..... who want to seek out evil doers and all that BS.

But it's inconvenient at this point, so he's urging congress to not pass it, even though that is part of Bush's so-called mission.

Once again.... turning a blind eye to those the US can benifit from.

And it wasn't that long ago.... perhaps some of you are young and think it was a long time ago, but it wasn't..... there's still vets alive who fought in WWI, and I imagine there are plenty of families of these victims, possibly in the US who put this forward in the first place, so you're gonna tell those families to forget about it?

A crime never expires. This is just pathetic is what it is.

And you guys were involved, just as much as all the other involved countries in WWI..... allow me to hunt down some education....

[Praxius]

The United States contributed a significant amount of aid to the Armenians during the Armenian Genocide. Shown here is a poster for the American Committee for Relief in the Near East vowing that "they [the Armenians] "shall not perish."

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Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Foreign corroboration and reaction Hundreds of eyewitnesses, including the neutral United States and the Ottoman Empire's own allies, Germany and Austria-Hungary, recorded and documented numerous acts of state-sponsored massacres. Many foreign officials offered to intervene on behalf of the Armenians, including Pope Benedict XV, only to be turned away by Ottoman government officials who claimed they were "retaliating against a pro-Russian fifth column."[41] On May 24, 1915, the Triple Entente warned the Ottoman Empire that "In view of these new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied Governments announce publicly to the Sublime Porte that they will hold personally responsible for these crimes all members of the Ottoman Government, as well as those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres."[42] The American Committee for Relief in the Near East (ACRNE, or "Near East Relief") was a charitable organization established to relieve the suffering of the peoples of the Near East.[43] The organization was championed by Henry Morgenthau, Sr., American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire. Morgenthau's eyewitness accounts of the mass slaughter of Armenians galvanized much support for ACRNE.[44] The U.S. mission in the Ottoman Empire The United States had several consulates throughout the Ottoman Empire, including locations in Edirne, Elazığ, Samsun, İzmir, Trabzon, Van, Constantinople, and another in the Syrian town of Aleppo. The United States was officially a neutral party until it joined the Allies in 1917. As the orders for deportations and massacres were enacted, many consular officials reported back to the ambassador on what they were witnessing. One such report came in September 1915 from the American consul in Kharput, Leslie Davis, who described his discovery of the bodies of nearly 10,000 Armenians dumped into several ravines near Lake Göeljuk, later referring to it as the "slaughterhouse province".

Your country actually helped shed light on this incident.... your country actually helped them back on their feet....

You guys do remember actually doing good things once apon a time right? This would be one of them, and now finally that your country is about to make a stand on this genocide..... you tell us to forget about it?

Talk about not following through on the important things. Bush has made a shell of what your country once was..... it's such a shame too.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: HelioPrime Because if its official that the Turks commited genocide then its a basis for Europest poorest country to demand money or other goods as reconciliation?

Official in what way? How does the fact that the US says there was genocide there make the Turks pay up?

They can DEMAND all they want, but I doubt the word of our Congress will sway a court. Most of the world knows about this slaughter as well, and it hasn't made much difference, has it.

This is just another attempt by the Congress to pretend to be doing good things so we don't start to think of the fact that they do almost NO good things as a matter of course. In other words, this is just more misdirection by the people who brought you the Terri Schiavo embarrassment and the equally pointless MoveOn "resolution."

[grandpa]

Acknowledging that there was a genocide would upset the Turkish government, generally considered a "secular" ally of the United States (though not secular enough to ever stop harassing Kurds and Armenians).

This is even more of a touchy issue for Bush (or, more likely, whoever tells him what to say and do) because, if I recall correctly, Turkey refused to be used as a strategic base for the Iraq War.

Grandpa h.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: HelioPrime Because if its official that the Turks commited genocide then its a basis for Europest poorest country to demand money or other goods as reconciliation?

I thought it was because America needs them as allies and condemning their past actions (which they feel very strongly that they never actually did) would be rude. They won't pay the Armenians anyway, but they'll be mad about it and we've already got them on edge because of our support and liberation of their other great racial enemy: the Iraqi Kurds. The problem in the Middle East isn't religion. Its racism, from the West Bank to Baghdad to Istanbul. Everybody hates somebody...

[Praxius]

Also, aknowleging that this has occured, it would alter officially your own history records of your country, in regards to the reports, the loads of money you contributed to these people, and basically making it offical that you guys did good..... well.... once apon a time.

You'd at least get brownie points from me..... and really.... isn't that all that should matter?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Thanatos I thought it was because America needs them as allies and condemning their past actions (which they feel very strongly that they never actually did) would be rude. They won't pay the Armenians anyway, but they'll be mad about it and we've already got them on edge because of our support and liberation of their other great racial enemy: the Iraqi Kurds.

Keep in mind that the multinational force in Iraq was once 50,000 strong - by mid-2008, it will be down to 7,000. The Bush league needs whatever allies it can get.
They need people like the Turkish government on their side, or at least not in total opposition the war.

They appear to be some hardcore genocide deniers (not all, of course). My former academic advisor used to teach in Turkey, and he said once he mentioned the Armenian genocide in a class and a student stood up, saying "Armenians do not exist," or something along those lines. In other words, real creepy. Turkey even once banned the Kurdish language, which makes me wonder why more Kurds aren't enraged at the US (recall how we also supported Saddam during his Anfal campaign against Kurds).
We've got to halt all military support to Turkey.

Other peoples in the world have similar problems, unfortunately, like the Czech Roma minority, but a moderator might tell me I'm getting off-topic.

Grandpa h.

[Scribbler1]

There is another angle to this story. If we piss of Turkey to the point of forbidding us to use their airspace and facilities, it could cause a MUCH bigger problem than it would appear on the surface.
If it is indeed true that Turkey is a vital link in the support chain to Iraq, breaking that chain could possibly put our troops in further danger. Don't forget, regardless of how bad this war is, those soldiers are STILL there.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Scribbler1 There is another angle to this story. If we piss of Turkey to the point of forbidding us to use their airspace and facilities, it could cause a MUCH bigger problem than it would appear on the surface.

However, there’s no way to enhance the morality of denying genocide.

But your point is somewhat accurate. And does anyone remember how rabid the response was to Spain's withdrawal from Iraq? Power and bits of diplomacy make for convoluted, genocide-denying politics.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

What brought up this bill now? Why didn't they pass it 25, 50, or 75 years ago??

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: grandpa However, there’s no way to enhance the morality of denying genocide.

No one is asking the Congress to deny anything. Just to keep their mouths shut on this issue. They don't need to accept genocide, deny it, or anything else. Just don't do anything about this. At least for right now.

After all, if Congress is known for ANYTHING, it's doing nothing.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Dieval What brought up this bill now? Why didn't they pass it 25, 50, or 75 years ago??

Well, I'm guessing the current election season might have a little to do with it.