Canada's nasty reputation

[Praxius]

Call it biased propaganda, call it fact.... I call it funny.... in a very sad way:

CBC News: Reports from abroad: Neil Macdonald

Charles Schumer is the senior U.S. senator from New York, and one of the most accomplished self-promoters in Washington, which says a great deal about his powers of self-promotion. He's a busy fellow. When he showed up last week at a televised Senate committee hearing, he wasn't interested in the expert witnesses testifying about security along the Canada-U.S. border. Schumer sat down just long enough to get some face time on the live cameras and to put some remarks on the record. "It's extremely troubling, extremely troubling," he said. "We have seen, crossing the Buffalo border on occasion, terrorists …" Congress, said Schumer, must do something about it. His fellow senators nodded gravely, and Senator Max Baucus from Montana started talking about how easy it might be for someone in Canada to build a dirty bomb. Schumer hurried off. In the audience, a Canadian official jotted down the remark, which was examined from all angles later at the Canadian embassy just down the road from the Capitol. No one had the faintest idea what Schumer was talking about. Nor did anyone in the Canadian Consulate General in Buffalo, which was quickly brought into the inquiry. Schumer himself hadn't provided any details. It turned out Schumer didn't know what he was talking about either. After repeated calls to his office, one of his press secretaries told CBC "perhaps the senator misspoke." Who's toughest? Perhaps. Or perhaps, as Canadian Senator Jerry Grafstein puts it, there's an election coming in the United States, and "it's above the radar screen because the Democrats are trying to demonstrate they're tougher on terrorists than the Republicans," and don't particularly care who they sideswipe in the process. Whatever the reason, politics loves a myth, and the myth about Canada that's lodged in the heads of some of America's most powerful politicians is as resistant to truth as a virus is to antibiotics. According to Canadian officials who track such things, six Washington lawmakers have so far this year stated that Sept. 11 hijackers entered the United States through Canada. For the record: the hijackers all entered the U.S. directly, most of them on visas granted by the American government, presumably after security checks by the vigilant security services of the U.S. Most of them were also citizens of another close U.S. ally, Saudi Arabia. But that didn't matter to high officials like Utah Senator Bob Bennett, who made the Sept. 11-hijackers-from-Canada accusation to some visiting Canadian MPs earlier this year. Or to Democrat Congressman Henry Cuellar of Texas, who said this to a House subcommittee last July: "If you want to look at the 9/11 terrorists, they didn't come from the southern border. They came from the northern part of the border." Cuellar's fellow Texan, Congressman Al Green, couched it as a broad hint last month. "Much is said about the southern border, but much also should be said about the northern border. The 9/11 hijackers did not come through the southern border…" (Green corrected himself, though not the official record, after calls from CBC). Look north Politicians in the United States reinforce the Canada-as-a-terrorist-haven myth for different reasons, says one Canadian official who watches the issue — and the reasons usually have nothing to do with Canada. Some Republicans "want to stimulate constant fear," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They depend on people being very scared in order to win office." He also pointed out that politicians from southern states appear determined to divert attention from the southern border, where many millions of illegal immigrants have crossed into the United States. "They perceive an elemental racism to the complaints about the southern border, so they are anxious to point out that white folks up north were the source of the 9/11 terrorism," the official said. The fact that Canada co-operates eagerly with American security officials, as one of the expert witnesses Schumer ignored was trying to explain, is immaterial. The fact that Canada, in its eagerness, has handed over (sometimes erroneous) information about its own citizens doesn't matter. The fact that Canadian authorities have actually intercepted security targets crossing the border from the U.S. with American guns makes no impression at all. But these utterances certainly have consequences. Frank McKenna, who spent much of his time as Canadian ambassador to the United States from 2005 to 2006 chasing and dousing the Sept. 11 myth, says Canadian travellers "are paying the price right now." "It's thickened the border," says McKenna. The longer lines at U.S. Customs, the traffic jams at international bridges in Buffalo and Detroit, the slowing of trade: "It is creating arteriosclerosis in the arteries between our countries." Canada's Grafstein, who co-chairs a group of Canadian MPs and senators (the Canada-U.S. Interparliamentary Group) that pursues private discussions with their American counterparts, says that dealing with the fallout of the "haven for terrorists" myth has become the group's principal concern. "It's like hitting a stone with water," he says. "I can't deal with the irrationality." Of course, Grafstein has been in politics for most of his adult life. He probably should have learned about irrationality by now.

And these are the people you guys vote in and get your information from? :rolleyes:

This is in relation to the other thread regarding the US attempting more scare tactics with the duffel bag incidences.... once again trying to show we're the evil ones who are some how directly responsible for 9/11.... even though this has already been proven false, it still continues on.

Why? Is it a choice to accept a lie, just to keep things screwed up, or is it just because people find it easier to just listen and believe, rather then think?

Cripes, no wonder why most of you guys have no clue who to believe anymore.... they don't even know what's true or false anymore.

This could also be related to the thread about why people hate "America" ~ If US officials are going to continually spread lies day in and day out, about you and your country, do you think we're gonna enjoy this? The same level of lies which caused such hatred towards Iraq and Afghanistan and helped lead to their invasions.... then you got your officials throwing wild acusations such as this around, basically trying to throw the responsibility squarely on us.... when we had nothing to do with the incident. And the worst part of it, is that many of you believe these lies.... which makes you just as bad as they are, because you'll fuel the same unfounded hatred and eventually with so many people talking about it and thinking it, it'll just morph into being the truth, because the masses believe so.

And then when one of us, like myself, come along to explain the situation later when everybody thinks these things to be true.... chances are I or someone else will be labeled some propagandist, or terrorist supporter.... or just as bad... some conspiritor trying to screw up the facts in which you all believe.

It's already happened in the past, it's already been proven in the past.... and it's happening again.... with one of your closest allies who've bent over ass backwards for plenty of things over the years.

Heck the only involvement we had was being a safe haven for thousands of Americans who were grounded during the attacks.... some thanks. :rolleyes:

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Praxius Why? Is it a choice to accept a lie, just to keep things screwed up, or is it just because people find it easier to just listen and believe, rather then think? Cripes, no wonder why most of you guys have no clue who to believe anymore.... they don't even know what's true or false anymore.

I wonder if you're addressing this question ti us, the people you assume are believing the story, or the crooks throwing it out there to be digested by the masses.


I think it's a rather large leap of logic to assume we will all suck this up like a Hoover Deluxe.


I think you'll find that Bush administrations propaganda has a familiar stench to it, and a lot of Americans have become familiar with it, and make efforts to expose it as such.

Quote by: Praxius This could also be related to the thread about why people hate "America" ~ If US officials are going to continually spread lies day in and day out, about you and your country, do you think we're gonna enjoy this? The same level of lies which caused such hatred towards Iraq and Afghanistan and helped lead to their invasions.... then you got your officials throwing wild acusations such as this around, basically trying to throw the responsibility squarely on us.... when we had nothing to do with the incident. And the worst part of it, is that many of you believe these lies.... which makes you just as bad as they are, because you'll fuel the same unfounded hatred and eventually with so many people talking about it and thinking it, it'll just morph into being the truth, because the masses believe so.

Welcome to the brave New World Order where we are just a Nuespeak away from 1984.

Quote by: Praxius And then when one of us, like myself, come along to explain the situation later when everybody thinks these things to be true.... chances are I or someone else will be labeled some propagandist, or terrorist supporter.... or just as bad... some conspiritor trying to screw up the facts in which you all believe.

I'm sorry that you have to suffer the same indignity that the Americans who are still awake suffer on a daily basis.


I really have no answer other than to suggest that these people ( whom most agree are monsters ) need to kick the oxygen habbit. Even if it requires a little tough love from the community.


The sides are forming, so choose carefully.

[Jack]

It's sad that isolationist attitudes are becoming more popular. Americans are blind, in large part, to how dependent we are on the rest of the world. If we piss off the rest of the planet or turn our borders into uncrossable barriers, we will watch our quality of life drop to an unbelievably low level. Besides, isolationism won't solve our problems, it will only provide a momentary false sense of security.

[SoylentGreen]

Praxius , you may want to take a look at this thread

The State of Security in America
by saif

It directly relates to this topic.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: Isherwood It's sad that isolationist attitudes are becoming more popular. Americans are blind, in large part, to how dependent we are on the rest of the world. If we piss off the rest of the planet or turn our borders into uncrossable barriers, we will watch our quality of life drop to an unbelievably low level. Besides, isolationism won't solve our problems, it will only provide a momentary false sense of security.

Its true America cannot be isolationist.
But look at the choices presented:

1. America pisses off the world when we become isolationist.
2. America pisses off the world when we are involved.

It may be true that Anericans are so often blind to our dependency on the world. But the world is so often blind to its dependency upon the USA. And its the latter which is causing the problems.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: BobbyO Its true America cannot be isolationist. But look at the choices presented: 1. America pisses off the world when we become isolationist. 2. America pisses off the world when we are involved. It may be true that Anericans are so often blind to our dependency on the world. But the world is so often blind to its dependency upon the USA. And its the latter which is causing the problems.

You know, there really is a lot of truth in those words. A classic case of irony.


Sadly the contempt is justified in most cases just by the rules required to get us to play along. US policy ( be it directly, through the UN, the World Bank, or Non Governmental Organizations ) really does orchestrate a lot of the disenfranchisement around the globe.

[Jack]

I don't see how we can avoid being involved with other nations. Perhaps we should adopt the Google attitude (Do no evil) as our national motto. "In God We Trust" doesn't seem to be doing any good.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Isherwood; It's sad that isolationist attitudes are becoming more popular. Americans are blind, in large part, to how dependent we are on the rest of the world. If we piss off the rest of the planet or turn our borders into uncrossable barriers, we will watch our quality of life drop to an unbelievably low level. Besides, isolationism won't solve our problems, it will only provide a momentary false sense of security.

That reminds me of North Korea and how isolated they are. Doesn't seem to be working for them either.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Milton Bradley; I wonder if you're addressing this question ti us, the people you assume are believing the story, or the crooks throwing it out there to be digested by the masses.

Kinda everything. The Officials for actually trying to spread such lies to the people who are supposed to trust them, the select group of people who still believe it's all true, and the majority of Americans who just don't really know who's side is on theirs based on said information.

I am always aware that no entire country is a collective of one thing..... usually when I generalize, I am generalizing towards the current image of a country that is being portrayed by themselves.

There are probably many many great minds in your country, as in any other.... but if the collective hysterical masses who are already doing what the government wants them to do are still having their way and the government still remains in power, and still can do what they want to do and get away with it..... then it's that general group of the masses that get's the generalization and image of the country.

JMO though and how I view things. Could it be biased? Perhaps. I never said I was perfect.

I'm sorry that you have to suffer the same indignity that the Americans who are still awake suffer on a daily basis.

Oh don't worry... I still gotta wake up to the same dam planet you guys do.

[Praxius]

Quote by: SoylentGreen; Praxius , you may want to take a look at this thread The State of Security in America by saif It directly relates to this topic.

Number One, set a course for "The State of Security in America", Barring Volconvo Debate Forums, Mark Politics & Government, maximum warp.

Engage!

Oh..... and Make it So.

[Praxius]

Quote by: BobbyO; Its true America cannot be isolationist. But look at the choices presented: 1. America pisses off the world when we become isolationist. 2. America pisses off the world when we are involved. It may be true that Anericans are so often blind to our dependency on the world. But the world is so often blind to its dependency upon the USA. And its the latter which is causing the problems.

Here's a simple solution... offer assistance, or wait until asked for assistance and try to avoid forcing your assistance onto others and trying to force them to believe it's for their own good. Try not to stick your noses into things that other countries don't require it stuck into.

You don't like other countries telling you what to do (Like you guys would really listen anyways, lmao) but do you seriously think we all enjoy you guys telling us what to do?

That's what different countries are for. They run themselves, and every so often, they'll help another country.... or attack it. Them's the breaks.

If it'd help any.... I swear on my life, that if it was Canada causing all this crap... I'd be on your sides bitching the country out, and I'd also be trying to get changes done here..... as this country is partially my responsibility.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Isherwood It's sad that isolationist attitudes are becoming more popular. Americans are blind, in large part, to how dependent we are on the rest of the world. If we piss off the rest of the planet or turn our borders into uncrossable barriers, we will watch our quality of life drop to an unbelievably low level. Besides, isolationism won't solve our problems, it will only provide a momentary false sense of security.

Yes, read: the deliberate dumbing down of america Our media is bought and paid for by the owners of this company.. er, country. And we are "dependent" only because the corporations have placed us in this position.. due to their never ending quest for near-slave labor.. it is always about $$$.. and the very worst part is.. there is no way, repeat, no way to stop it.

The "United States" - is.. a corporation. Who owns us..? These people:

1. the Rothschilds family ( London and Berlin ) ( 168 Banks and Trusts, Europe, Asia )

2. Lazard Brothers Trusts ( Paris ) ( 144 Banks and Trusts in Europe and Mideast )

3. Israel Seiff Trusts (Italy )(68 European Banks, World Bank, Intl Bank of Settlements)

4. Kuhn-Loeb Companies ( Germany ) ( 31 Banks in Germany, Switzerland, Dubai )

5. Warburg Company Trusts( Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam, Holland )(39 Trusts)

6. Lehman Brothers Trusts ( New York, USA )( Bank of Nova Scotia, 39 more )

7. Goldman Sachs ( New York, USA ) ( Bank of America Group ) ( Citibank Group )

8. Rockefeller Family Trusts ( New York, USA )( Chemical Bank, First Union Bank)

9. J.P. Morgan Trusts (JP Morgan Chase Bank Group, 41 banks ) ( 23 Trust Groups )

10. Greenwood Trust Group ( Discover Card, Sears )(Watchovia Banks Group )

11. The British Royal Family ( London, UK )( Bank of England, 6 more Banks )

12. Thyssenkrupp AG ( Berlin ) ( 19 German Banks ) ( 21 Trust Groups )( Deutchbank )

Essentially, the United States Government as a Sovereign Entity Was Dissolved in 1933 when the U S Government was declared Bankrupt and Insolvent. The Federal “ United States “ is a corporation “ United States Corporation “ 28 USC 3002 (15) (A) which runs the country’s activities per the Unified Commercial Code.

Look this up:

United States Corporation “ 28 USC 3002 (15) (A)

[Praxius]

Ah, that would explain why everythings gone to hell as it did and you guys don't seem to have much of a voice as you should.

I mean, I knew Bush was getting paid more by the Saudi Arabians per year then what he was getting paid as the US president (Which speaks where his loyalties ultimately would lie) but to the extent of the damage as above would sound.... I dunno.

It can and could be stopped. You just need a hand from a few countries to cover your backs while you take out what you need to do at home..... and to cover off such people as the above? Just plead the sympathy card to the UN and other allies, make it sound like a true democratic revolution.... and you'll get all the help you need.

Hell think about it.... all these 3rd world countries always asking for handouts and assistance, etc.... and they're always getting it, for humanitarian or democratic reasons..... I imagine a country which has contributed a lot to the cause could get the system to work in their favor..... government be damned.

You guys see what's going on with the Monks and their democratic protests? How they're all getting hauled away, and now you have pretty much the entire world (Or at least those who count) backing the monks up, backing up their democratic revolution, and soon there could be some action to help them finally.

The difference with the US, is that you guys are already "Democratic" as they say.... any expression by your government in restricting any of your revolts or protests, or doing something similar as what is happening to the monks, you'd most likely see your allies snap shit and come to your aid.

Yeah, many are pissed still at all the things the US has done and put them through..... but that was your government, not the people..... and we see just as clearly what's going on as all of you..... but it's your country, and you guys need to take action first.

We can't pull a "U.S." on the US. (Pre-emptive strike to establish a democratic government) as we all see.... that doesn't work. Your allies would require some form of official request and/or protest asking for either intervention or assistance. The more people to send the message, the clearer and further the message is spread around the world.... the more impossible it becomes to ignore.

Quite honestly, I think the world's just waiting for the sign. You guys begin a revolution to form the country back to a democracy, allies would begin to form and plan ways to deal with such a situation, as the normal thing to do, and then if you guys didn't request assistance, I imagine it would be offered to get the ball rolling.

This whole thing occurred because it was just too long since a scary and bloody war.... nobody was scared and fearful anymore. Life was actually for the most part good since the Cold War ended..... which was also nothing but scare tactics and fear for years on end.

There's no money if there is no war, and there is no money if people don't get scared and start to buy things or end up paying for things for their own protection...... it's so A-Typical it's sick..... and it just keeps on going.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Praxius I am always aware that no entire country is a collective of one thing..... usually when I generalize, I am generalizing towards the current image of a country that is being portrayed by themselves.

I'm familiar with your broad brush painting techniques, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact I often paint the same group as sheeple, so I think we understand each other.

Quote by: Praxius Oh don't worry... I still gotta wake up to the same dam planet you guys do.

Yeah, but you guys have more trees, and the grass is greener.


Oh, and your "simple solution" response, or "common sense approach" in the following posts are right on target, and when we have such a simple, common sense solution that is not be implemented it's just another indicator that this is all deliberate.

[Century 25]

The difference with the US, is that you guys are already "Democratic" as they say.... any expression by your government in restricting any of your revolts or protests, or doing something similar as what is happening to the monks, you'd most likely see your allies snap shit and come to your aid.

The "democratic" or democracy theme is what many people here & elsewhere around the world believe we have here. However, we are a Republic.. big difference... although they will trumpet and flag-wave that we are a "democratic" Republic.. that is a laugh, a non sequitur.

It can and could be stopped. You just need a hand from a few countries to cover your backs while you take out what you need to do at home..... and to cover off such people as the above? Just plead the sympathy card to the UN and other allies, make it sound like a true democratic revolution.... and you'll get all the help you need.

We have no chance. They have worked very hard to divide this country, in many ways.. it is quite involved, maybe you can get at least an idea of the problem by looking at: DARK AGES AMERICA -- Blog for Morris Berman

[Chaossaber314]

There seems to be a lot of accusations floating around that revolve around manipulation and lying.

Is it perhaps possible that these politicians simply... and I know this is a stretch... that they're simply ignorant of the issues and merely running their mouths spewing bullshit like they actually know what they're talking about like undergrads in an Intro to Poly-sci course?

Basically... less malicious... more stupid?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 There seems to be a lot of accusations floating around that revolve around manipulation and lying. Is it perhaps possible that these politicians simply... and I know this is a stretch... that they're simply ignorant of the issues and merely running their mouths spewing bullshit like they actually know what they're talking about like undergrads in an Intro to Poly-sci course? Basically... less malicious... more stupid?

There is no excuse for them to be ignorant because they have the ability to be briefed by the Department of Whateveritistheirlyingabout. That's how you know it's bias, or agenda driven behavior.


“It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.”
-Ayn Rand

[BobbyO]

Quote by: Praxius Here's a simple solution... offer assistance, or wait until asked for assistance and try to avoid forcing your assistance onto others and trying to force them to believe it's for their own good. Try not to stick your noses into things that other countries don't require it stuck into. You don't like other countries telling you what to do (Like you guys would really listen anyways, lmao) but do you seriously think we all enjoy you guys telling us what to do? That's what different countries are for. They run themselves, and every so often, they'll help another country.... or attack it. Them's the breaks. If it'd help any.... I swear on my life, that if it was Canada causing all this crap... I'd be on your sides bitching the country out, and I'd also be trying to get changes done here..... as this country is partially my responsibility.

The "Prime Directive" Praxius, is from science fiction.

There is no objection for helping people out. But if the USA is going to help people out, why should it do so simply on the terms of the recipient?
Its not the USa's fault that say, the Balkans, are the way the Balkans are. A country wants help in solving a problem, why should the USA, or any country, just say "Do you what you want. If you screw up, don't worry, we will help you out again... and again... and again..."

And causing all this "crap?" What "crap?". The rise of Islamic fundamentalism. No, the USA is working to block its expansionist tendencies.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 There seems to be a lot of accusations floating around that revolve around manipulation and lying. Is it perhaps possible that these politicians simply... and I know this is a stretch... that they're simply ignorant of the issues and merely running their mouths spewing bullshit like they actually know what they're talking about like undergrads in an Intro to Poly-sci course? Basically... less malicious... more stupid?

And poloticians up in this country, if they ever ended up doing something like that and throwing ill-informed opinions and acusations around, they'd be fired in less then a week.... but these guys apparently are not phased by this and don't mind not looking into the facts, but rather just fill in the blanks with what comes to the head first.

It's a good thing Canada isn't a blood thirsty, war-mongering nation.... some could have gone to war over such an acusation. j/k

[Praxius]

Quote by: BobbyO The "Prime Directive" Praxius, is from science fiction.

Actually I know what the prime directive is, and I didn't cite it.... however the PD is a perfect system we should follow imo.

There is no objection for helping people out. But if the USA is going to help people out, why should it do so simply on the terms of the recipient?

If you don't like the terms, and you don't feel you guys are getting your money's worth out of it, don't help.

Its not the USa's fault that say, the Balkans, are the way the Balkans are. A country wants help in solving a problem, why should the USA, or any country, just say "Do you what you want. If you screw up, don't worry, we will help you out again... and again... and again..."

I never understood the US's mentality that you guys are obligated to help other countries.... I never remember seeing that in any deals or contracts in the development of your country. You guys have the choice to tell people to take a flying leap, like any other country. I personally don't see how other countries would expect you guys alone to take care of them.

The only time I could see this, is if you guys were responsible for their situation... such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.

But if a country is gonna continue crap out and ask you for assistence, tell them to go screw off somewhere. What's the big deal?

If it's all about a humanitarian crisis, that's what the UN is for. Nobody ever said you guys have to police the world.

And causing all this "crap?" What "crap?". The rise of Islamic fundamentalism. No, the USA is working to block its expansionist tendencies.

that's a matter of opinion.