Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Osborn F Enready · Oct 8, 2007, 04:42 pm

Quote:

the Decider said:
Arson and murder is not "civil disobedience." The judge would listen to your "right to disobey unjust laws" defense and then give you a long prison sentence.

Murder?!? So now you assume I would burn it down with people in it?

Man, no end to the imagination is there.

I can pay the fine for emptying and burning down my own building, and the community can suffer with less available living space due to their ignorance of my rights as a land (apartment) owner. That was my point.

Quote:

Decider said:
That's OK, just as long as you know the legal consequences--fine or jail.

I would pay the fine with a smile, and then make a speech to the media about why I did it.

Quote:

Decider said:
Again, if you choose vigilante justice, you also choose the legal consequences.

One of the main reasons I am not revolting, as of now. I still retain the right.

Quote:

Decider said:
And smokers have a right to move to smoke-friendly jurisdictions to pollute their neighbors' environments.

So, you support segregation?

A side of you I have never seen.

The Decider · Oct 8, 2007, 04:51 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

Murder?!? So now you assume I would burn it down with people in it?

Man, no end to the imagination is there.

I can pay the fine for emptying and burning down my own building, and the community can suffer with less available living space due to their ignorance of my rights as a land (apartment) owner. That was my point.

I don't know the law in your state, but in mine arsonists go to prison--for a long time. And they pay a HUGE fine. Both. The property will be auctioned off to pay the fine, and to pay for other civil litigation against the arsonist. The city, meanwhile, will find another apartment/condo owner who will comply with the law.

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

So, you support segregation?

A side of you I have never seen.

I support laws against pollution and other public health threats. That is not "segregation" in the historical sense of that word.

Osborn F Enready · Oct 8, 2007, 04:52 pm

Quote:

Decider said:
I don't know the law in your state, but in mine arsonists go to prison--for a long time.

I don't know what you call an arsonist, but I wouldn't see a person setting his own property on fire, an arsonist, if it didn't threaten the lives or property of others.

Quote:

Decider said:
I support laws against pollution and other public health threats. That is not "segregation" in the historical sense of that word.

Its also an assault on logic, individual rights, property rights, among other things.

The Decider · Oct 8, 2007, 05:13 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

I don't know what you call an arsonist, but I wouldn't see a person setting his own property on fire, an arsonist, if it didn't threaten the lives or property of others.

Setting a fire to an apartment building threatens the lives of fire fighters who must put out the blaze. And if the building has fire insurance, the building owner/arsonist will be charged with fraud too.

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

Its also an assault on logic, individual rights, property rights, among other things.

Well, good luck using that as a defense. You'll need it.

Osborn F Enready · Oct 8, 2007, 05:13 pm

Well, if I ever become an apartment owner, and do it, I will remember your words Decider.....

The Decider · Oct 8, 2007, 05:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

Well, if I ever become an apartment owner, and do it, I will remember your words Decider.....

Don't forget to hire a good lawyer!

Osborn F Enready · Oct 8, 2007, 05:23 pm

I represent myself, thanks.

The Decider · Oct 8, 2007, 05:28 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

I represent myself, thanks.

Then you should be fine against any arson prosecutor. Blaze up!

Chancellor · Oct 9, 2007, 08:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: The Decider

Oh, I thought this thread was about the disgusting and dangerous habit of smoking in crowded apartment and condo complexes. "Evil" deserves its own thread in the religion/philosopy forums--it's not an argument here.

No, it's about further government intrusion on our liberties. It is not the government's place to mandate a ban on smoking in apartment buildings. If the owners of those buildings want to do it (as mine did), fine; but the government needs to keep its nose out of it.

grandpa · Oct 9, 2007, 10:31 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

No, it's about further government intrusion on our liberties.
It is not the government's place to mandate a ban
on smoking in apartment buildings.

The proverbial "nanny state" knows no bounds. It's not a "lobbyist phenomenon" anymore, but a way of life.

And I say this as someone who basically agrees with Robert Starkey, who claimed
"There is no rational, moral or economic argument for the continuation
of the manufacture, sale or use of smoking tobacco."

Grandpa h.

Technosoul · Oct 9, 2007, 10:57 am

Everyone who operates an apartment complex will repaint the walls and steam clean the carpets and drapes between tenants. That is nearly a law.

Tenants or landlords can provide air purification units that can keep the air clean and remove the orders of ciggarette smoke.

If non smokers got nose problems they can do likewise or close their windows. Apartments should not be built so shabby that air can cirulate through the walls or vents.

Saying that someone has the right to move (in ether case) is totally the wrong idea. That old "love it or leave it" philosophy is just nonsense.

If you are going to live in a compacted housing arrangement such as in an apartment complex you really need to have a liking for humanity, and an attitude for it.

People should be able to smoke, cook smelly food, play their music, get drunk all day Sunday and fuss and fight with their wife, and babies should be able to cry and little kids should be able to yell and shout and have fun. And people should be able to enjoy loud sex and nudity in their little apartment as well. Without getting a knock on the door from some do-gooder enforcer telling you how to live the life you love, or how to love the life you live.

The nitty gritty of real humanity should not be regulated and subdued for the pleasure of a few snobs who go sniffing around in everyone else's bizzwax.

We have to put up with all those post-em notes at the office, all those ticketable rules of the road and signs about where you can park your car, you know what I mean. We live in a world that is more like a prison with posted signs as our bars of confinment. So when people come home, to the privacy of their house, they should at least be allowed that one place to 'be your self", that one place where freedom and liberty is King.

Without some cranky old lady next door pounding on the wall with her broomstick telling you to pipe down, or some policeman of Big Brother hauling you off to jail because some group of old nannies passed some law downtown about what you can or cannot do in your bedroom.

Living in environments close to other people and in the middle of humanity is not a place one should expect perfectionism, it is a place where all the imperfections of reality exists, people need to face reality and the facts of life and stop trying to regulate some kind of "phoney world" for their self where the realities of society no longer exists. An apartment is not a "dream house".

So get naked, pop a Bud, turn on the sounds, and babyboom some brats, and after sex "burn one down" and to hell with what others think.

Or, get decent, open a bottle of carrot juice, put on some old gospel records, pray your heart out, and crank up the air purification machine.

I could care less, you do your thing and I'll do my thing. That is what we used to call "freedom".

grandpa · Oct 9, 2007, 11:36 am

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

Everyone who operates an apartment complex will repaint the walls
and steam clean the carpets and drapes between tenants.
That is nearly a law.

And, of course, the tenants "legal" responsibility is to be subordinate and pay the rent. No matter which angle you look at, the system is rigged to grow and grow. One type of illegitimate authority tends to feed another, either in competition or in collaboration.

And where can anyone go to escape it? There are not many places.

Grandpa h.

Osborn F Enready · Oct 9, 2007, 12:19 pm

Quote:

gramps said:
And where can anyone go to escape it?

Allodial title of your own land.

DO YOU OWN YOUR HOME?

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lc/publ...ca_2003_01.pdf

HB 1322

Oct 8, 2007, 05:13 pm	#45 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Well, if I ever become an apartment owner, and do it, I will remember your words Decider..... Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Oct 8, 2007, 05:23 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I represent myself, thanks. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Oct 9, 2007, 10:57 am	#51 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Everyone who operates an apartment complex will repaint the walls and steam clean the carpets and drapes between tenants. That is nearly a law. Tenants or landlords can provide air purification units that can keep the air clean and remove the orders of ciggarette smoke. If non smokers got nose problems they can do likewise or close their windows. Apartments should not be built so shabby that air can cirulate through the walls or vents. Saying that someone has the right to move (in ether case) is totally the wrong idea. That old "love it or leave it" philosophy is just nonsense. If you are going to live in a compacted housing arrangement such as in an apartment complex you really need to have a liking for humanity, and an attitude for it. People should be able to smoke, cook smelly food, play their music, get drunk all day Sunday and fuss and fight with their wife, and babies should be able to cry and little kids should be able to yell and shout and have fun. And people should be able to enjoy loud sex and nudity in their little apartment as well. Without getting a knock on the door from some do-gooder enforcer telling you how to live the life you love, or how to love the life you live. The nitty gritty of real humanity should not be regulated and subdued for the pleasure of a few snobs who go sniffing around in everyone else's bizzwax. We have to put up with all those post-em notes at the office, all those ticketable rules of the road and signs about where you can park your car, you know what I mean. We live in a world that is more like a prison with posted signs as our bars of confinment. So when people come home, to the privacy of their house, they should at least be allowed that one place to 'be your self", that one place where freedom and liberty is King. Without some cranky old lady next door pounding on the wall with her broomstick telling you to pipe down, or some policeman of Big Brother hauling you off to jail because some group of old nannies passed some law downtown about what you can or cannot do in your bedroom. Living in environments close to other people and in the middle of humanity is not a place one should expect perfectionism, it is a place where all the imperfections of reality exists, people need to face reality and the facts of life and stop trying to regulate some kind of "phoney world" for their self where the realities of society no longer exists. An apartment is not a "dream house". So get naked, pop a Bud, turn on the sounds, and babyboom some brats, and after sex "burn one down" and to hell with what others think. Or, get decent, open a bottle of carrot juice, put on some old gospel records, pray your heart out, and crank up the air purification machine. I could care less, you do your thing and I'll do my thing. That is what we used to call "freedom".