Border fails the test of undercover U.S. investigators:

[Praxius]

Border fails the test of undercover U.S. investigators

Undercover American investigators who snuck duffel bags across the U.S.-Canada border have concluded that a smuggler could easily carry radioactive material or other contraband from one country to the other. The Government Accountability Office, an investigative branch of the U.S. Congress, sent out investigators to test how hard it would be to transfer large red duffel bags at unguarded and unmonitored spots along the 8,000-kilometre border. The tests were done from four northern states, which were not identified. The exercises were videotaped and photographed. The details of the investigation were outlined in a 13-page report that will be given to Congress. During one of the tests, a citizen noticed the unusual activity and alerted a border official, but by the time authorities came to the scene, they could not locate the undercover investigators. "Our work shows that a determined cross-border violator would likely be able to bring radioactive materials or other contraband undetected into the United States by crossing the U.S.-Canada border at any of the locations we investigated," the accountability office report states. Investigators determined that the Canadian border with the United States "presents more of a challenge" than the U.S.-Mexico border. The report notes that as of May, there were only 972 U.S. Border Patrol agents on the Canadian border and 11,986 agents on the Mexican border. Investigators examined the southern border and said they observed a significant number of U.S. National Guard troops and U.S. Border Patrol personnel while driving on state roads, but found little law-enforcement presence on vast stretches of surrounding lands managed by the U.S. government. Investigators said for security reasons they did not conduct the duffel bag tests at the U.S.-Mexico border. It is illegal to cross the border at any place other than an official port of entry.

Gee..... if it's still so easy to cross the borders, wtf has your government been doing with all that border funding for the last few years?

There's been the passport thing we gotta do, our guard now are armed, the talk of fencing Canada all off from the US, increased random checks and security tests, etc...... And yet.... though all this worrying and fear of terrorist attacks, it's still so easy to cross the borders with a big red duffel bag and get away with it?

What a waste of time and money I say. They really know how to prioritize.

"Gee.... our border crossing posts are not secure enough, let's add fencing, make those coming in need a passport, get the rubber gloves out and check for bacon in their arses.... heck.... let's get spy planes and blackhawks patrolling the border posts too!! Let's make it cost more to come into the country, and at the same time, slow everything down as much as possible....."

"Um..... what about that couple of hundred miles of forest and rivers down that way we don't look at and have no patrols on?"

"People are lazy, they won't go through the woods."

[Osborn F Enready]

This is part of the tri-government plan of merging the U.S., Canada and Mexico under one currency, one broad government, one trade zone.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Praxius Border fails the test of undercover U.S. investigators Gee..... if it's still so easy to cross the borders, wtf has your government been doing with all that border funding for the last few years? There's been the passport thing we gotta do, our guard now are armed, the talk of fencing Canada all off from the US, increased random checks and security tests, etc...... And yet.... though all this worrying and fear of terrorist attacks, it's still so easy to cross the borders with a big red duffel bag and get away with it? What a waste of time and money I say. They really know how to prioritize. "Gee.... our border crossing posts are not secure enough, let's add fencing, make those coming in need a passport, get the rubber gloves out and check for bacon in their arses.... heck.... let's get spy planes and blackhawks patrolling the border posts too!! Let's make it cost more to come into the country, and at the same time, slow everything down as much as possible....." "Um..... what about that couple of hundred miles of forest and rivers down that way we don't look at and have no patrols on?" "People are lazy, they won't go through the woods."

Border funding means nothing if your mostly focusing on immigrants from Mexico.

A terrorists threat could be noticed before he even makes it into Canada. The US most likely does keep an eye on the movement of anyone suspect.

The border is a big place. We could always built a massive wall and only allow crossings at guarded checkpoints. But more paranoid minds might take that as evidence the invasion of Canada is underway.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius Border fails the test of undercover U.S. investigators Gee..... if it's still so easy to cross the borders, wtf has your government been doing with all that border funding for the last few years? There's been the passport thing we gotta do, our guard now are armed, the talk of fencing Canada all off from the US, increased random checks and security tests, etc...... And yet.... though all this worrying and fear of terrorist attacks, it's still so easy to cross the borders with a big red duffel bag and get away with it? What a waste of time and money I say. They really know how to prioritize. "Gee.... our border crossing posts are not secure enough, let's add fencing, make those coming in need a passport, get the rubber gloves out and check for bacon in their arses.... heck.... let's get spy planes and blackhawks patrolling the border posts too!! Let's make it cost more to come into the country, and at the same time, slow everything down as much as possible....." "Um..... what about that couple of hundred miles of forest and rivers down that way we don't look at and have no patrols on?" "People are lazy, they won't go through the woods."

Weren't you the one preaching that Canada is watching our northern border, preventing terrorist types from entering?

[The Decider]

Quote by: Dieval Weren't you the one preaching that Canada is watching our northern border, preventing terrorist types from entering?

Is that George Jr.'s plan for northern border security--the Canadian Mounties? I knew the prez favored outsourcing, but this is ridiculous.

[Dieval]

Quote by: The Decider Is that George Jr.'s plan for northern border security--the Canadian Mounties? I knew the prez favored outsourcing, but this is ridiculous.

Ha ha :rolleyes:

Not that I'm aware of.

I will totally agree that border security is SEVERLY lacking..

Someone in another thread, and I believe it was Praxius, made a claim that it would be hard for a terrorist to get across the Canadian border because they were closely monitoring it...

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Praxius Gee..... if it's still so easy to cross the borders, wtf has your government been doing with all that border funding for the last few years?

Wow, I have to wait for somebody outside the country to ask the question that I have wanted people to address since 9/11.


This is the very same thing that 9/11 showed us about the Emergency Broadcast System, Immigration, and Naturalization, State, and local Police and countless other government agencies in the great bureaucracy. You're paying for something, but generally it's just a paper trail of plausible deniability.


It didn't help that the Bush administration liked to gut a lot of the protocols of the agencies affected, but never the less, the example was there to be observed by all of us. Yet nobody ( that had a podium to do such ) paddressed these types of questions to the people responsible.

Quote by: Praxius There's been the passport thing we gotta do, our guard now are armed, the talk of fencing Canada all off from the US, increased random checks and security tests, etc...... And yet.... though all this worrying and fear of terrorist attacks, it's still so easy to cross the borders with a big red duffel bag and get away with it? What a waste of time and money I say. They really know how to prioritize.

Perhaps the saddest thing about this issue is it's legitimacy, and the fact ( or "story" if your more cynical ) that the threat wasn't "visible" until the time of electronic sensors. ( Not a fan of electronic surveillance. Wreaks of Police State. )

Quote by: Praxius "Gee.... our border crossing posts are not secure enough, let's add fencing, make those coming in need a passport, get the rubber gloves out and check for bacon in their arses.... heck.... let's get spy planes and blackhawks patrolling the border posts too!! Let's make it cost more to come into the country, and at the same time, slow everything down as much as possible....." "Um..... what about that couple of hundred miles of forest and rivers down that way we don't look at and have no patrols on?" "People are lazy, they won't go through the woods."

I'd rather have my free society, and responsible foreign policies than the never ending Stock Market growth, and having to live in a Police State because our corporate overlords have alienated the rest of the planet. But what do I know.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Weren't you the one preaching that Canada is watching our northern border, preventing terrorist types from entering?

Arn't you the one who continually comes into my threads and post useless crap to attempt to contradict me and not bother to actually contribute to the thread in question?

How about you contribute something for once in your life, or leave the dam thread. I have already clarified one or two of your responses in my threads before.... I don't have the time nor the patience to nit pick with you about other threads that you never figured out how to understand.

If you got a comment about that other thread then keep it in that thread.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Ha ha :rolleyes: Not that I'm aware of. I will totally agree that border security is SEVERLY lacking.. Someone in another thread, and I believe it was Praxius, made a claim that it would be hard for a terrorist to get across the Canadian border because they were closely monitoring it...

We watch over those from our own country and those who enter our country as we see fit. The fact that your own people could walk through your so-called super-funded border patrolling (Blackhawks, Spyplanes, and the sort) without detection 3 out of 4 times, shows your own countries failures, not ours.

My previous comments were in regards to Canada "Deliberatly" allowing someone to cross the borders with a weapon.....

Next time learn how to read wtf I am saying so I don't have to repeat myself.... you waste my time.

And it's not our priority to police your own country.... I figured some super power such as you guys could do something as simple as this.

[Praxius]

Now as an update to this topic, Our Public Safety Minister has issues a comment:

CTV.ca | Day says border not porous, despite U.S. outrage

Stockwell Day said that for every person who illegally crosses the U.S.-Canada border, there are thousands who are caught, after a report accusing border security of being weak was presented to U.S. Congress on Thursday. "You will read from time to time about someone who has been able to get, when they thought nobody was looking, across the thousands and thousands of kilometres of border," Canada's Public Safety Minister said in Edmonton. "What you didn't read about are the 21,000 people last year who didn't make it, who tried at various points, either at official border points or unofficial border points." The 13-page report was presented by investigators with the independent Government Accountability Office who smuggled fake weapon components from Canada into the U.S. It suggested that the border was porous and dangerous to the country. "The northern border is a significant threat as a terrorist point of entry," said Ken Luongo, Executive Director of the Partnership for Global Security. The report comes after GAO officers were sent out with large red duffel bags, containing simulated nuclear weapons and other contraband, to try transferring them at unmonitored and unfenced points between the two countries. They succeeded three out of four times. U.S. politicians used the report as an excuse to point the finger at Canada's weak security. "Say I'm in Canada and I want to make a dirty bomb. How easily can I do so?" said U.S. Senate Finance Comm. Chair Max Baucus Senator Ken Salazar (D-Colorado) demanded tighter security along the border. "With the possible exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist organizations active in Canada than anywhere else in the world," said Salazar. Day said that in the last 19 months, Canada has put $431 million towards improving infrastructure at border points and $19.5 million to expanding integrated border teams, hiring 400 officers. "No country is immune to terrorism, but I can tell you with the increased resources, both on the dollar side, the technology side and the personnel side, we're safer than we were a year and a half ago," he said. However, investigators said they found that with a little ingenuity the border could easily be penetrated. "Our work shows that a determined cross-border violator would likely be able to bring radioactive materials or other contraband undetected into the United States by crossing the U.S.-Canada border at any of the locations we investigated," the GAO report concluded. As of May 2007, there were 972 American border guards and customs officers patrolling the divide stateside while the U.S. employed nearly 12,000 agents along its southern border with Mexico, Baucus said on Thursday during a hearing on the report's findings. "The GOA investigation found this raised serious questions about the balance of resources on both borders," Baucus said. Canada doing its part: Harper Prime Minister Stephen Harper responded to the report Thursday saying that Canada is doing its part in maintaining border security by making "significant investments both in processes and people." "As you know, these particular materials were emitted through American security on the American side of the border," Harper said in Toronto. "But obviously we have to be concerned. We work hand and glove with American authorities dealing with any kind of threats or potential threats, and I think American officials will tell you that." Four spots in northern states along the 8,000-kilometre border were tested, though they were not identified in the report. At one site, investigators conducted a 10-minute exercise, setting up a cross-border exchange of the duffel bag. The exercise was recorded and photographed by GAO investigators. In that instance, a resident of the area became suspicious and alerted border officials that something suspicious was taking place. Authorities were called to the scene but were unable to find the GAO investigators. "It's so hard to believe there's been so little progress in plugging these gaping security holes," Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said during Thursday's hearing. "They're simply wide open, waiting to be crossed by anyone carrying anything, even a dirty bomb or a suitcase-type nuclear device." Last year's GAO border test found authorities failed to catch 93 per cent of GAO investigators entering the U.S. with fake documents, Grassley said. "Last year we learned that our check points were vulnerable to fake documents and this year, we're going to hear that the areas between the check points are as vulnerable as ever." Grassley said. It is illegal to cross the border anywhere other than an official border entry point.

A couple of points I would like to make about this is:

Last year's GAO border test found authorities failed to catch 93 per cent of GAO investigators entering the U.S. with fake documents, Grassley said.

Compared to our side of things:

"What you didn't read about are the 21,000 people last year who didn't make it, who tried at various points, either at official border points or unofficial border points."

Seems to me the failure is on the US side of things, more then it is on Canada, as we apparently are doing a better job.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"With the possible exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist organizations active in Canada than anywhere else in the world," said Salazar.

I would seriously love to hear how they got this information :rolleyes:

And among other unfounded information they threw around:

U.S. politicians used the report as an excuse to point the finger at Canada's weak security.

"Our work shows that a determined cross-border violator would likely be able to bring radioactive materials or other contraband undetected into the United States by crossing the U.S.-Canada border at any of the locations we investigated," the GAO report concluded.

"It's so hard to believe there's been so little progress in plugging these gaping security holes," Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said during Thursday's hearing. "They're simply wide open, waiting to be crossed by anyone carrying anything, even a dirty bomb or a suitcase-type nuclear device."

This is just typical fear mongering of your poloticians to make your public more fearful of the Evil Canadian Empire! ..... Not to mention an obvious blame shift on Canada, without any comments towards the failures of the US border officials.

Once again another perfect example of US officials avoiding blame at all costs.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius Arn't you the one who continually comes into my threads and post useless crap to attempt to contradict me and not bother to actually contribute to the thread in question?

I believe you have it backwards...most of your threads ARE useless crap...

Quote by: Praxius How about you contribute something for once in your life, or leave the dam thread.

DO NOT TELL ME WHERE I CAN AND CAN'T POST. THAT IS NOT UP TO YOU. If you don't like my posts in your threads, don't post on this site.

Quote by: Praxius If you got a comment about that other thread then keep it in that thread.

But it's relevant to this thread.

Quote by: Praxius We watch over those from our own country and those who enter our country as we see fit. The fact that your own people could walk through your so-called super-funded border patrolling (Blackhawks, Spyplanes, and the sort) without detection 3 out of 4 times, shows your own countries failures, not ours. Next time learn how to read wtf I am saying so I don't have to repeat myself.... you waste my time.

I can read just fine. You just seem to blow a fuse when anything you say is questioned...

Quote by: Praxius And it's not our priority to police your own country.... I figured some super power such as you guys could do something as simple as this.

I don't want Canada to police our country. Just bringing up what you said earlier.. don't like that, tough shit.

Quote by: Praxius My previous comments were in regards to Canada "Deliberatly" allowing someone to cross the borders with a weapon.....

I asked a simple question about a comment you made earlier. There is zero reason you should get bent out of shape when I ask you for clarification.

What you said in the other thread was -

Quote by: Praxius And you make it sound like Canada or Mexico would permit someone to come into our countries with a nuclear weapon, let alone pass through our borders to you guys..... wtf do you think we are? Some second rate amature monkey show up here?

You said that Canada would stop people from entering our country to do us harm. I don't know how big a "large red duffle bag" is, but that could easily be substituted for a nuclear weapon.

Guess you really didn't mean what you said...I guess YOU are a "second rate amature monkey show"....

[HelioPrime]

I guess we should ask Canada how to protect a border because clearly they are superior being in every way? :rolleyes:

Patrolling a large land border is one thing. The US tends more to focus on where those red duffel bag people would be originating from. Watching locations of nukes, watching know and suspected terrorists allies. Intelligence to catch them before they could even make it into Canada to smuggle a nuke across.

[Praxius]

The point is, your country is the one all tight waded about security and threats.... if you guys want your borders covered, do it yourself.... but as you can see.... apparently the only people who really want to blow up your country are your own officials with their fake bags of nuclear weaponry......

The stab is the officials trying to throw out more fear and trying to blame it on us, when it's not paticularlly our responsibility.

And Dieval, Grow up and learn how to read.....

Notice the word there "PERMIT into our borders" ~ AKA (Also Known As): Our responsibility for our own borders. Getting through two of our borders with such a weapon would be a questionable event..... but primary is the entry into our borders, such are your prioity.

I'm pretty sure your country isn't there looking out for the guys coming into our country with weapons..... I'm sure you guys have more pressing priorities and claim it wasn't your responsibility for the security of our country...... hence I see some hypocracy here... and it's not I.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Praxius This is just typical fear mongering of your poloticians to make your public more fearful of the Evil Canadian Empire! ..... Not to mention an obvious blame shift on Canada, without any comments towards the failures of the US border officials.

Heh, you've done your fair share of fear mongering on on citizens here as well.


Do we need to start being suspicious of you now as well?

[tivodan1116]

Huh. So our borders are still porous.

You know, it's a shame we don't have like a million more government employees that could help us protect our borders... Maybe like people specially trained in protecting a given area, who also have experience running checkpoints and guarding against incursion...

Oh wait, we do. The military. Too bad they're being wasted going after third world despots and protecting Europe from itself... :rolleyes:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready This is part of the tri-government plan of merging the U.S., Canada and Mexico under one currency, one broad government, one trade zone.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready This is part of the tri-government plan of merging the U.S., Canada and Mexico under one currency, one broad government, one trade zone.

All the more jobs heading to China then...:rolleyes:

[Praxius]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Heh, you've done your fair share of fear mongering on on citizens here as well. Do we need to start being suspicious of you now as well?

It wouldn't be an unwise idea..... but it's more about where the fear is coming from and how.

Myself personally, I'm not a left or a right kind of guy, as I know one solution doesn't work for every situation, but I usually don't try and throw something out to shoot at unless there's some kind of logical thing backing it up.

I never say I'm always right.... I just say what needs to be to make people think.

[Osborn F Enready]

I don't understand the replies from Tivo or Helio regarding my post.

Do either of you care to clarify your intention of your postings toward my comment?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I don't understand the replies from Tivo or Helio regarding my post. Do either of you care to clarify your intention of your postings toward my comment?

Certainly -

There is no "tri-government plan" to merge the U.S., Canada and Mexico under one government. That theory, which by the way has been around long before the internet gave it a fertile breeding ground, is nothing more than tin-foil-hat nuttiness.

My "intention" in responding the way I did was to give my basic thought on the idea without engaging it in a conversation, since there is no point in debating with conspiracy theories. As soon as one posts irrefutable and/or overwhelming evidence that a claimed conspiracy does not exist, that poster or that source of evidence becomes "part of the conspiracy".

[Praxius]

Not to mention, do you think the populations of the three countries would want to live together?

You guys hate plenty of things about our way of life, and I know for sure there's plenty in your country I don't like (To each their own) and I'm sure Mexicans would have some things to say as well.

All three countries have little tollerance listening to each other telling how we all should live, I imagine if we wll merged together, it'd be even worse.

And I'm seeing the major effects of having both the US and Canada dependant on one another as much as we are now. If our countries were more interdependant from one another, such crazy jumps and falls in marketing wouldn't have as much of a wide spread effect as it's having now.