The Islamist-Leftist Alliance

[shrike]

HAMBURG -- It had to be Fritz. A name can't get much more German than that. And of all places it had to happen in Sauerland, a remote region in Germany that invokes about as much the specter of a "parallel society" as a gardening club. The amount of explosives 28-year-old Fritz G., 22-year-old Daniel S. and Adem Y., a 28-year-old Turkish-German, had prepared in an inconspicuous vacation home would have been many times more destructive than the Madrid and London bombs. By the skin of their teeth, German security services, with the help of their U.S. colleagues, prevented earlier this month what might have been the worst terrorist attack in European history. The would-be bombers, though, aren't some neglected immigrants on the margins of society. No, the danger came directly from its center, from children of good, solid homes. Fritz G.'s father was an engineer in Munich, his mother a doctor. When the two divorced in the 1990s, it's been reported, the son found support in Islam. In the small Bavarian town of Neu-Ulm, he became a regular of the "Multi-Kulti-Haus," a German center for fanatical Muslims. Daniel S. from Saarland converted from Catholicism to Islam in 2004, one year after dropping out from high school. German security services believe he visited a terror camp last year in Pakistan. Even the most alarmist German politician could hardly have imagined so much "home grown" terrorism at once. In comparison to Great Britain, Spain or France, Germany thought itself comparatively safe. First, because it was not involved in the Iraq war, it hoped al Qaeda would grant the country some sort of bonus. Second, because most of the roughly three million Muslims in Germany come from Turkey, where the separation of religion and politics is state doctrine. They were thus thought to be more or less inoculated against extremism. How different, one thought, from the U.K., where the majority of Muslims come from Pakistan, a country founded in religious conflict and an exporter of fundamentalism. Or France, which made its Muslims citoyens but whose Algeria war still preoccupies the minds of the present immigrant generation. Given the alarming fact that a son of Turkish immigrants was involved in the Sauerland plot, the inoculation can no longer be considered absolute. What's more, it looks as though the home-grown phenomenon has not only reached Germany, but has even skipped a developmental stage. Fritz G. and Daniel S. did not become extremists through cultural Islam. They took the direct route to political Islam. The phenomenon of extremist converts should worry us for it shows that Islam can be decoupled from its native religious and cultural background. Al Qaedism is becoming a universal, radical ideology of protest. Young Westerners in search for the most brutal anti-Western position find Osama bin Laden's ideas seductive because they are ethically hermetic. In contrast to most post-modern nation states, Islamic fundamentalism offers the kind of warm hearth for which many shaken Western souls might yearn: community instead of individualism. Moral certainty instead of moral arbitrariness. And hasn't the fulfilling sense of fighting a "cold evil" always held great attraction for young idealists? Take the revolutionary companeros around Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. The anti-globalization movement, which never ceases to denounce "unmerciful neo-liberalism," is another example. But can we seriously compare the political appeal of social revolutionary groups with theocentric al Qaedism? Let's try a test. Who is the source of the following quote: "This is why I tell you: as you liberated yourselves before from the slavery of monks, kings and feudalism, you should liberate yourselves from the deception, shackles and attrition of the capitalist system." Karl Marx? Hugo Chavez? Noam Chomsky? In fact, the words are Osama bin Laden's, spoken on a video that appeared shortly before the sixth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the U.S. The al Qaeda chief went on to denounce in great detail the excesses of unbridled capitalism and "global warming" before inviting all Americans to convert to Islam. Bin Laden offers some kind of "counter-globalization": The security the Muslim Umma promises, the global village of all believers. He has very consciously begun fishing for supporters who share the backward concept of Islamism for non-religious reasons. The secular religions of climate rescue and globalization criticism meet bin Laden's doctrine of divine salvation. Disillusioned of the world, unite! "Wherever the believer happens to be, he is part of a virtual society, with which he shares the same set of norms," writes the French Islam expert Olivier Roy about the attraction of Islamism. "Only two radical protest movements in the West still claim to be internationalist: the anti-globalization movement and radical Islamists.... Al Qaeda has clearly occupied an existing space of anti-imperialism and protest.... Al-Qaeda is a successor to the ultra-left and third-world movements." Just as many Muslims in Islamabad, Ramallah and London consider themselves part of a global underdog community, a new "international proletariat," so young Germans could soon begin to feel like the losers of the post-modern world and seek affirmation in a community. And when losers become radical, blood quickly flows. Every al Qaeda attack shows what can happen when disappointment is convincingly explained as the fault of "the other" and embedded in a Weltanschauung. What drove Fritz G. and Daniel S. into the clutches of the fundamentalists is unclear; so far they have kept silent in their cells. But it seems likely that for Fritz G., a child of divorce, and Daniel S., a high-school dropout, the conversion to Islam both satisfied a yearning for security and cemented their alienation from the West. Converts tend to be overzealous in order to prove themselves. And Islamism offers its supporters the ultimate chance to prove they belong: martyrdom. We don't know whether Fritz and Daniel wanted to become suicide bombers. But in the conceptual world of al Qaedism, sacrifice for the group is also the most intensive form of merging with the group. Unfortunately, we must assume that somewhere there is a Fritz who is yearning for just that Free Article - WSJ.com .

The Left and Muslim Fundamentalists share the same goals they oppose western capitalist culture and our freedoms. Even on this board they are first to defend various fascist Muslims regimes.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: shrike The Left and Muslim Fundamentalists share the same goals they oppose western capitalist culture and our freedoms. Even on this board they are first to defend various fascist Muslims regimes.

What does any of this have to do with them hating our freedom?


As long as that lie smeared on the rest of the propaganda like marmalade, why should we enter into this conversation?


Agenda driven hogwash.

[shrike]

What does any of this have to do with them hating our freedom? As long as that lie smeared on the rest of the propaganda like marmalade, why should we enter into this conversation? Agenda driven hogwash.

I didn't get you point.Are you saying they not hate our freedom?Are you saying that left are not sympathetic with Islam?

[Thanatos]

The left hates freedom? Tell the right to stop messing with the bill of rights.

As a radical leftist myself, I see disturbing parallels between the hard right in our country and the hard right in some Muslim countries. They live in a theocracy, the right wants a theocracy. They live under constant surveillance, the right wants constant surveillance. They hate gays, the right hates gays. They want to kill a whole religion of people, elements of our right want to kill a whole religion of people.

Once upon a time I was against the ownership of automatic weapons on the grounds that there was no possible way we might ever be faced with a scenario where we would need a militia. Then, Bush rigged the election and decided that the bill of rights and international law only apply to you if they say they do.

I don't want any more reasons to be paranoid, okay?

Oh, and the grammatically correct version of your response would be:

I didn't get you point. Are you saying they do not hate our freedom? Are you saying that the left is not sympathetic with Islam?

I also have strong reason to believe the answers are yes and yes.

[Zeebadee]

"By the skin of their teeth, German security services, with the help of their U.S. colleagues, prevented earlier this month what might have been the worst terrorist attack in European history."

Yeah, right. These guys had been under surveillance for months. The authorities knew exactly what they had, and what they planned. Arrests were delayed until every shred of propaganda value could be extracted from the "terrorist attack".

[shrike]

Quote by: Thanatos As a radical leftist myself, I see disturbing parallels between the hard right in our country and the hard right in some Muslim countries.

I see much cooperation between left and Islamists For example Latin American left leftists showing solidarity with theocratic Iran, Chomsky paying a visit to Nasrallah, Stalinists showing offense at drawings of Muhammed, and a "Bridge-building Between the Left and Islam" conference in Egypt.

They live in a theocracy, the right wants a theocracy

Cult of personality in various Communist countries is not much different then theocracy.

They hate gays, the right hates gays. They want to kill a whole religion of people, elements of our right want to kill a whole religion of people.

So you should ask yourself why left supporting such people.

P.S the topic is left and Islam not right and Islam no one denies that there is such connection Islam and Nazism have history of good relationship if you want to discuss this please make separate thread.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: shrike I didn't get you point.Are you saying they not hate our freedom?

Correct. I am saying that that is alarmist rhetoric meant to illicit a certain response, fear. ( In other words it has a remarkable similarity to intentionally prepared propaganda. )

Quote by: shrike Are you saying that left are not sympathetic with Islam?

I can't speak for the Left. I only alaign with the Left on certain domestic social issues.


What I will say is that you seem to be alaigning with the jingoist war mongers who seek any justification for thier wars of aggression.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Zeebadee "By the skin of their teeth, German security services, with the help of their U.S. colleagues, prevented earlier this month what might have been the worst terrorist attack in European history." Yeah, right. These guys had been under surveillance for months. The authorities knew exactly what they had, and what they planned. Arrests were delayed until every shred of propaganda value could be extracted from the "terrorist attack".

Indeed, that would have been my assessment as well. Right down to the indigestion that followed from posting that.

[shrike]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Correct. I am saying that that is alarmist rhetoric meant to illicit a certain response, fear. ( In other words it has a remarkable similarity to intentionally prepared propaganda.

Do you think if we will ignore external threats they will just go away? Libertarians like to concentrate on internal issues but they close their eyes on real threats to the freedom.

What I will say is that you seem to be alaigning with the jingoist war mongers who seek any justification for thier wars of aggression.

Please no straw-mans .I never said that.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike P.S the topic is left and Islam not right and Islam ...if you want to discuss this please make separate thread.

Heh. We've had this discussion before.

We can talk about anything we want, on any thread we want. And the guy that started the topic can protest but the mods and the administrator will not do a thing...

[Nono]

The Wall Street Journal. Today's Pravda of America. So gimme a break.

I'm on the left and I ain't part of no alliance.

Try again, shrike little buddy.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: shrike I didn't get you point.Are you saying they not hate our freedom?Are you saying that left are not sympathetic with Islam?

That old "they hate us for because of our freedom" nonsense is apparently also one of George Bush's favorite terms. It's appropriate for him to like it because it's a meaningless slogan.

How can these people hate what they know very little ABOUT? Muslims, like most people generally don't hate ANYTHING unless they are taught to. They, and that "they" is not only a subjective, but also an unsupported and vague term, might hate us, but only because they are TOLD to.

And if the left really is sympathetic toward Islam, it would be because of our own interference in their countries. Most of those people are just like us. They want to live their lives and not be bothered.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: shrike I see much cooperation between left and Islamists For example Latin American left leftists showing solidarity with theocratic Iran, Chomsky paying a visit to Nasrallah, Stalinists showing offense at drawings of Muhammed, and a "Bridge-building Between the Left and Islam" conference in Egypt. Cult of personality in various Communist countries is not much different then theocracy. So you should ask yourself why left supporting such people. P.S the topic is left and Islam not right and Islam no one denies that there is such connection Islam and Nazism have history of good relationship if you want to discuss this please make separate thread.

May I make a request? Don't lump me in with the authors of Workers World and I won't discuss the dialog between the Fascists and the radical Islamists. You can't just say "leftist". If you mean communists and other assorted leftist radicals say communists and other assorted leftist radicals. Also, don't say "Muslim". Muslim is not equal to Hamas or Al-Quaeda. Most of them just want to be left alone, and despite steadily declining popularity many are still on our side.

There's an active outreach program to try to find extremists of any sort inside the U.S. who can be used as tools to fight the U.S. from within. Watch a whole bunch of radical forums for a long period of time; they especially like preaching to white supremacists and 9/11 kooks.