Student at a Kerry event is Tasered:

[Praxius]

Quote by: spudnicks They should have taken him out front and shot him in the head.

Wow.... that's a nice way to show your true Nazi colors. :rolleyes:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary A taser is not a punishment, it is a weapon used to end a dangerous altercation, and in my opinion, should be used only when the suspect presents danger to an officer, a civilian, or himself. A policeman is there to round up the criminals, not serve as a "preventative measure".

There has been an incident about 1 or 2 years ago here in canada, where a man was killed from multiple taser shots from officers as he was under the influence of Cocaine and wasn't co-operating very well.

Can't find the link but:

CorpWatch : US: Torture by Taser

Robert Guerrero may have died because he wouldn’t come out of a closet. The small-time crook had been looking to steal some electricity. When he tried to illegally reconnect a neighbor’s electrical meter at the North View apartment complex near the Fort Worth Stockyards last November, someone called the cops. And when the officers arrived, someone else pointed them to the closet in Apartment M where he was hiding. Guerrero, 21, wasn’t a violent criminal. His rap sheet was littered with convictions for things like misdemeanor theft and burglary of a coin-operated machine. Normally, theft of electricity won’t even get you arrested — just reported to the electric company. But when Fort Worth police arrived at the apartment on Clinton Street that afternoon, they treated Guerrero like a dangerous character. Two officers entered the apartment and pulled open the door to the closet, where Guerrero was hiding under a black plastic trash bag. Officer P.R. Genualdo, a six-year veteran, told him to step out of the closet. When the 143-pound Guerrero refused, Genualdo unholstered his Taser and shot him in the chest, sending electricity through Guerrero’s body. A police report of the incident indicated that Genualdo held the Taser’s trigger down for 10 seconds — double the normal length of time. Worse, in the next minute he jolted Guerrero three more times with five-second blasts before pulling him from the closet floor. A few minutes after the officers pulled him from the closet, Guerrero stopped breathing. Neither the officers nor paramedics could get his heart started again, and Guerrero was declared dead when an ambulance got him to John Peter Smith Hospital a short while later. The Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office later listed the cause of death as heart failure brought on by “acute cocaine overdose,” but a member of the ME’s staff —who asked not to be named — told Fort Worth Weekly that “the amount of cocaine found in Guerrero’s blood would not normally have caused him to have heart failure.” What about the Taser hit? Manufacturers of the Taser maintain that no one has ever died from their “nonlethal” weapon, which is zooming in popularity among police agencies. But the Taser that hit Guerrero that day was no minor-league cattle prod. It delivered a 50,000-volt lightning strike to Guerrero’s chest like a Mack truck — and delivered that jolt four times.........

And it continues.

Tasers ain't all that great imo.

[The Decider]

Quote by: grandpa Here is a transcript I found online, written as verbatim as possible: It sounds remarkably different than John Kerry telling him to calm down after he was scremaing obscentities and flailing his arms around, doesn't it? Again, the police report lies. It also doesn't mention how the cops kept interfering with his question, nor does it mention how it was the cops who initiated the confrontation (which is really key when talking about "inciting a riot," which is not what Meyer did). I'm not making a particularly philosophical argument here, just repeating what is depicted on the video. And Meyer reacted the way anyone might react when they're being led away for no apparent reason. Seriously, if I acted the way the police did to someone at a Q&A, people would be wondering what the hell is wrong with me, right? Why should it be different if I was wearing some uniform?

The dialogue from the police report that you claim is a "lie" occured BEFORE this exchange, and off camera. Why can't you concede that point instead of pretending it was never made?

Moreover, I would like to see a link to the transcript. Was it just the transcript from the video tape or a transcript of the entire event, including the portion before the videotape?

[bigdfilm]

Quote by: Praxius Wow.... that's a nice way to show your true Nazi colors. :rolleyes: There has been an incident about 1 or 2 years ago here in canada, where a man was killed from multiple taser shots from officers as he was under the influence of Cocaine and wasn't co-operating very well. Can't find the link but: CorpWatch : US: Torture by Taser And it continues. Tasers ain't all that great imo.

Blah Blah Blah, yeah we all get it. There are cops who use their powers beyond what they should. I'm not going to argue that there are no dirty cops in the world.

I'm only saying that this is not one of those cases. This was handled properly. END OF STORY.

[Praxius]

My above comment was geared towards the quote I showed, where someone either thought it was a good idea or just funny to take someone like this out somewhere and shoot them in the head.

I related to the routine executions of "Undesirables" in Nazi Germany.

As for the Taser comment I showed, it was in reponse to the overall misconceptions on the safety of tasers.

My post you quoted doesn't seem to have any relation to the response you gave.

As it goes for Handeling it properly (End of Story) ~ It's not, as there were a miltitude of alternative measures of avoiding this situation, which were ignored, and then physical confrontation came about..... resulting in the taser being used, which to my eyes in viewing the videos, was unessicary.

You're not the one writting the history books, so it's no where near end of story. (Neither am I.)

[bigdfilm]

Quote by: Praxius ...there were a miltitude of alternative measures of avoiding this situation, which were ignored, and then physical confrontation came about.....

Quote by: bigdfilm I ask you then, how would you have handled the situation, if you were the cop. You have just been asked to escort this gentleman out of the lecture hall. He is not compliant. You then do one of the following: A) Let him continue to speak and interrupt the atmosphere of the meeting B) Keep asking nicely for him to follow you out the door C) Cap his ass D) Ask him to come with you, he refuses, you then try to strong arm him out the door, after attempting this he still fights and is becoming a danger to you and the other nearby people, you decide it is time to use a little more force, you pull your taser and warn him that he is going to be shot if he does not comply, he continues to fight so you decide that it is time to end this pointless fight before someone really gets hurt. I'll give you a little hint, the right answer starts with the letter "D"

Please, tell me what you would have done.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bigdfilm Please, tell me what you would have done.

I already have at least twice in the last couple of pages.

[bigdfilm]

Quote by: Praxius I already have at least twice in the last couple of pages.

Its pretty simple, just pic A, B, C or D.

I want to know what you would have done.

[grandpa]

Quote by: The Decider The dialogue from the police report that you claim is a "lie" occured BEFORE this exchange, and off camera. Why can't you concede that point instead of pretending it was never made?

I won't concede that point because there is little evidence for it. There is no indication that Meyer and Kerry started with a hostile tone. The police report claims do not blend well at all with the video shown. Need I remind you that the general standard is "innocent before proven guilty," not the other way around?

It is up to you to provide more evidence of his guilt, especially that he was trying to "incite a riot," which the officers claim was the chief cause of this arrest.

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bigdfilm Its pretty simple, just pic A, B, C or D. I want to know what you would have done.

I don't like your limited options, as my own was not in the list.... and real life isn't limited to 4 letter options.

The thing is I have seen similar situations like this one, and they were delt with much better then how this was.....

[bigdfilm]

Quote by: Praxius I don't like your limited options, as my own was not in the list.... and real life isn't limited to 4 letter options. The thing is I have seen similar situations like this one, and they were dealt with much better then how this was.....

I'm not saying you have to like them. Many of the decisions I have to make while on the job I rather dislike, but I make them because its right.

In real life, you have to make quick decisive decisions on how to handle a situation, you have only moments to decide what to do. The four options I mention are the only ones available at that time.

Ok then, please explain exactly what you would have done; please remember you have to remove this person from the room.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: bigdfilm I'm not saying you have to like them. Many of the decisions I have to make while on the job I rather dislike, but I make them because its right. In real life, you have to make quick decisive decisions on how to handle a situation, you have only moments to decide what to do. The four options I mention are the only ones available at that time. Ok then, please explain exactly what you would have done; please remember you have to remove this person from the room.

Seems to me that you've answered your own question: remove him from the room. If 6 cops can't remove a single individual without tasering him, they're in the wrong line of work, even more so since he was already on the ground.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zeebadee Seems to me that you've answered your own question: remove him from the room. If 6 cops can't remove a single individual without tasering him, they're in the wrong line of work, even more so since he was already on the ground.

Nice dodge, Zee.

He asked how would you remove him. Be it 6 cops, 1, 3, 10, how would you? Just grab him by the ankles and drag him out? When he was tased he was on the ground, but turned around facing upward, still pulling his arms away. They couldn't cuff him. When arresting a person its paramount that they are cuffed. For the perp's safety, as well as the officers and everyone in the room. They could have maced him or tased him, as a method of rendering him immobile so they could proceed with the cuffing.

I say Meyer was responsible for his own well being, in regard to the tasing. He was told of their next course of action (tasing), ignored it, and therefor accepted any and all responsibility for whatever ill consequences resulted. Had he suffered a heart seizure and died, it would be on his shoulders that this happened.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: ruksak I say Meyer was responsible for his own well being, in regard to the tasing. He was told of their next course of action (tasing), ignored it, and therefor accepted any and all responsibility for whatever ill consequences resulted. Had he suffered a heart seizure and died, it would be on his shoulders that this happened.

So, if the cops had told him their next course of action would be to shoot him, and he didn't submit, they'd be justified in shooting him while he was on the ground? Cops can do anything they want as long as they warn a person first?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Zeebadee So, if the cops had told him their next course of action would be to shoot him, and he didn't submit, they'd be justified in shooting him while he was on the ground? Cops can do anything they want as long as they warn a person first?

Apparently. As I said earlier, if I went to an event and did this to someone people would be wondering what teh hell is wrong with me. But if I had a badge and a uniform I'd have people applauding me. That's the nature of authoritarianism, Zee.

Some people say Meyer was insane to be paranoid of an attempt to kill him, but that's certainly not the craziest conclusion to reach after you go through what he did.
Yes, it's not like people came in the night and attacked him, but I'd be afraid nonetheless, especially when I wouldn't know exactly what I did wrong.
This kind of experience can change a person

Zee, do you get the feeling he did nothing wrong? I mean, what exactly were the cops warning him for? Where was he "inciting a riot," as the officers claimed?

Grandpa h.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zeebadee So, if the cops had told him their next course of action would be to shoot him, and he didn't submit, they'd be justified in shooting him while he was on the ground? Cops can do anything they want as long as they warn a person first?

The use of non-lethal force follows a different set of guidelines. Non-lethal force can be used to encourage compliance and prevent further injury. Manhandling him could be far more damaging than a shock.

Quote by: Gramps Apparently. As I said earlier, if I went to an event and did this to someone people would be wondering what teh hell is wrong with me. But if I had a badge and a uniform I'd have people applauding me. That's the nature of authoritarianism, Zee.

Again, you reveal your true problem with this issue. You do not recognize a need for authority. Which is absurd.

[grandpa]

Quote by: ruksak The use of non-lethal force follows a different set of guidelines. Non-lethal force can be used to encourage compliance and prevent further injury.

Here we saw cops making the scene worse through the use of force. Everything that happened was predictable, under those exact circumstances or innumerable others.

If the cops wanted to "prevent further injury" and to "preserve the peace," they shouldn't have acted how they did.

Grandpa h.

[ruksak]

Quote by: grandpa Here we saw cops making the scene worse through the use of force. Everything that happened was predictable, under those exact circumstances or innumerable others. If the cops wanted to "prevent further injury" and to "preserve the peace," they shouldn't have acted how they did. Grandpa h.

Ya wanna know why the video stops rolling after he gets tased? Because there was nothing to see anymore. The issue was resolved, albeit the hard way. The police didn't make a scene. Watch the video and tell me who's screaming and running around waiving their arms? Not the police.

There are far better examples of police brutality to expend your energy on. Their use of force was marginal at best

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: grandpa Zee, do you get the feeling he did nothing wrong? I mean, what exactly were the cops warning him for? Where was he "inciting a riot," as the officers claimed?

I think Meyer was guilty of being an a$$hole and disrupting the event, and he should have been tossed out, but that's ameliorated by the fact that he was undoubtedly annoyed and frustrated if he had indeed been listening to Kerry for 2 hours. Everyone knows that tensions run high during political discussions, all the more reason to approach a situation like this with extra patience. My only objection is the use of a taser on an individual that's already on the ground with 6 cops on him.

Seems that once the cops order someone to do something, that individual is then obligated to obey, no questions asked. Once their "authority" has been questioned, the cops feel the need to firmly establish that they are in charge. Meyer was never going to be allowed to challenge their "authority".

The "inciting a riot" charge is ridiculous, but the cops clearly need a charge sufficiently serious enough to justify their use of excessive force.

Quote by: ruksak You do not recognize a need for authority. Which is absurd.

An unfounded statement. I think we all recognize a need for authority, but I also think we need to recognize that there are limits to that authority.

Quote by: grandpa Here we saw cops making the scene worse through the use of force. Everything that happened was predictable, under those exact circumstances or innumerable others.

Exactly.

[The Decider]

Quote by: grandpa I won't concede that point because there is little evidence for it. There is no indication that Meyer and Kerry started with a hostile tone. The police report claims do not blend well at all with the video shown. [/U] Need I remind you that the general standard is "innocent before proven guilty," not the other way around?

You used alot of words to say, "I can't prove the cops lied in the police report."

When you can prove the cops lied in the police report, come back to this thread with your evidence.

Quote by: grandpa It is up to you to provide more evidence of his guilt, especially that he was trying to "incite a riot," which the officers claim was the chief cause of this arrest.

I will remind you of the three charges in the police report:

a) Resist Officer
b) Disturbing Peace
c) Interfere with School Administration Functions

All the videos I've seen have evidence to support each of those charges. Any one of those charges justify arrest.

Additionally, the police report names two female witnesses, Clarissa Jessup and Rachel Speisman. Their interviews provided information for the report.

I see no reason why any prosecutor would hestitate to try this case in court.

Police Report: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/0...ort.072274.pdf

[Gods_Mercenary]

And it continues. Tasers ain't all that great imo

There's a better candidate for police brutality, and nobody's claiming that tasers are fun, but it's a hell of a lot better than a 9mm through the skull, which is currently really the only viable other option. If you can find a way to painlessly stop a 200+ lb man in his tracks short of killing him before he can feel it, I'm sure the police will be all ears, until then, I'm guessing tasers and the like will stay, along with examples of police using them innaproprately.