Student at a Kerry event is Tasered:

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: xyzer I picture this type violent resistence to authority as potentially dangerous to those involved and to bystanders.

Oh yeah, such "violence", and of course, no one should ever resist "authority".

I know the cops have minimum physical standards that have to be met before before joining the force, it's too bad they also don't have minimum IQ standards as well. These cops did exactly what the kid wanted them to do, and they did it on video in front of the whole world. In addition to making themselves look like nazi storm troopers, they made Kerry look like either a weakling for not stopping them, or a typical politician trying to avoid embarrassing questions. They had the crowd on their side, until the taser was used. All the cops had to do was turn off the mike, let him rant for a few minutes, them escort him out, by limited force if necessary. I think 4 or 5 of them could have handled that without using a taser. Protesters and the like are present at all similar meetings these days, usually the only publicity they get is to being escorted out. This kid scored big, all his questions have been aired on national TV, he made kerry and the cops look bad, and he got all the attention he originally wanted. Being tasered while on the ground under control will make any prosecution difficult if not impossible, so I doubt that he'll ever be charged with anything, or he'll get minimum sentencing if he is. All his objectives were met, at the total cost of a taser shot. Gotta admire that.

[Chaossaber314]

I know the cops have minimum physical standards that have to be met before before joining the force, it's too bad they also don't have minimum IQ standards as well.

Yeah, except that most departments require degrees now.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Yeah, if there's a wrongful arrest you fight it in the courts later, you don't fight the arresting officers. At least you don't fight the arresting officers and then be surprised when they beat your dumb ass.

And this same mentality could explain the ammount of assaults and shooting of cops..... you'll have a much better chance of someone going quietly if you explain what is about to happen and then proceed, rahter then just thinking you got the right to take whoever you like down, because you got the Authoratah, and start grabbing and doing whatever.....

If the person in question is being physically assaulted by a cop or anybody for that matter, without any explination, then its a typical reaction to resist.

And regardless if you explain your actions after they're arrested, the moment you make physical contact with anybody without notice, they will by instinct resist.

If someone doesn't feel they have done anything wrong, then they're gonna fight back.

In his case, he figured he was being a bit annoying, but in no way did his actions require that many police officers to take him out... let alone the fact they attempted to get physical with him, from behind, without proper notice.

And as mentioned before, regardless if the police told him to stop or not, Kerry egged him on.... and most would think to listen to the guy running the show.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Praxius And this same mentality could explain the ammount of assaults and shooting of cops..... you'll have a much better chance of someone going quietly if you explain what is about to happen and then proceed, rahter then just thinking you got the right to take whoever you like down, because you got the Authoratah, and start grabbing and doing whatever.....

So you have evidence of widespread wrongful arrests and shootings?

Let's face it, the world is filled with people who "know their rights". Just because you give someone a reason does not in any way mean they'll accept that reason legitimate or not. Looking at this kid, if he was told their reason, and legitimate or not, do you think he would have gone "Well.. ok, officer. I see your point." No he was there with the intention of making a god damn scene.

If the person in question is being physically assaulted by a cop or anybody for that matter, without any explination, then its a typical reaction to resist.

Physically assaulted? An assault is the threat of battery. There is no threat of battery from being walked out of an auditorium with an arm around yours.

And regardless if you explain your actions after they're arrested, the moment you make physical contact with anybody without notice, they will by instinct resist.

Without notice? They were talking to him before they grabbed him. He got an attitude, refused to leave, and then they decided to escort him out.

If someone doesn't feel they have done anything wrong, then they're gonna fight back.

That's great, if you're actually being attacked in the first place. The cops didn't hit this guy first. He shoved one of the cops and then elbowed another in what looks like the jaw. That on the other hand IS assault and battery.

In his case, he figured he was being a bit annoying, but in no way did his actions require that many police officers to take him out... let alone the fact they attempted to get physical with him, from behind, without proper notice.

It was only two officers at first which is very much standard, and then he started resisting the two and the others went in to help. And what in the fuck is "proper notice"?

And as mentioned before, regardless if the police told him to stop or not, Kerry egged him on.... and most would think to listen to the guy running the show.

Running the show? Kerry doesn't own the university. Get real.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 So you have evidence of widespread wrongful arrests and shootings?

Read carefully.... I was talking about shootings and assaults on Officers, not those they arrest. They are en-acting their proceedures of physical reaction to a human instinct to defend. If you chase after someone, or use force to take them down prior to explaining the situation to them, expect confrontation and resistence.

Let's face it, the world is filled with people who "know their rights". Just because you give someone a reason does not in any way mean they'll accept that reason legitimate or not. Looking at this kid, if he was told their reason, and legitimate or not, do you think he would have gone "Well.. ok, officer. I see your point." No he was there with the intention of making a god damn scene.

Yeah and everybody has their limits.... he probably wanted to just cause a scene, but he wasn't planning on starting a riot, or to attack anyone..... he was gonna get on his little soap box and be the centre of attention for a bit..... explaining the situation to him would have most likely stopped it, as while they were trying to tackle him to the ground, he was asking wtf they were doing.

If he was already told why they were using such force on him, he wouldn't be asking now would he?

Physically assaulted? An assault is the threat of battery. There is no threat of battery from being walked out of an auditorium with an arm around yours.

Errr..... what's a Taser? A fluffy bunny? It's a weapon. If you pull out a taser and shoot someone on the street... expect to get charged with assault. It's not assault with a deadly weapon, but it's assault none the less.

Without notice? They were talking to him before they grabbed him. He got an attitude, refused to leave, and then they decided to escort him out.

Remind me not to goto any of your parties where you have "escorts."

It was only two officers at first which is very much standard, and then he started resisting the two and the others went in to help. And what in the fuck is "proper notice"?

Interupting him in a louder tone then his and explain what is about to happen if he didn't shut up and walk away. Pretty simple and would have avoided a physical confrontation.

Running the show? Kerry doesn't own the university. Get real.

Get real? We're the police forces there on the University's request or Kerry's?

And the "Show" was about him..... one would think he'd have some authority as to what went on.... also... you know.... being a Senitor and all.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Yeah, except that most departments require degrees now.

Sure, as if a degree requires real intelligence anymore. These dumb cops gave the kid everything he wanted. Yeah, they can legally justify their actions, but at what cost? The kid is the clear winner in this confrontation.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zeebadee These dumb cops gave the kid everything he wanted. Yeah, they can legally justify their actions, but at what cost? The kid is the clear winner in this confrontation.

Dumb cops? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you have little to no exposure to what they go through. Decisions that must be made both instantaneously and judiciously. Hindsight not being in their bag of tricks, they must first control a situation before they can adjudicate it.
I've gone out with my brother, an IMPD officer, on many occasions as part of a ride along. Seeing first hand how fast a nondescript and nonthreatening person can turn hostile or make an attempt to flee.

What I'm saying is, give them a break. What would you have done, keeping in mind you are looking back at this, while they didn't have that luxury.
When a person is confronted by a police officer, they must respect both their authority and the fact that this is their job. Give them a break.

The belligerent kid in this case did not respect them. He challenged their authority. He also chose to fight them. How can he now blame them for a decision he forced upon them?

[Chaossaber314]

If he was already told why they were using such force on him, he wouldn't be asking now would he?

LiveLeak.com - Student Tasered After Asking John Kerry Questions
Cop first talks to him at 0:44. He cops an attitude.
It appears the cops are talking to him at around 1:20 but I'm not sure.
At 1:43 they tell him to stop and he continues to yell and scream "Are you going to arrest me?"

You don't have to tell someone that they're committing a crime before you arrest someone. In fact they make a point of not telling them by procedure. In Missouri for instance if you run someone's ID or license plate and they come back with a warrant, they make a point of sticking deliberately to 10 code for the officer's safety. When people know they are about to be arrested they are more dangerous than when you are simply putting on the cuffs. At least you have the element of surprise that way and they don't have the opportunity to pull a knife or something while you're sitting there giving them an explanation of why what they did, was illegal. Do you know anything about police work?

Errr..... what's a Taser? A fluffy bunny? It's a weapon. If you pull out a taser and shoot someone on the street... expect to get charged with assault. It's not assault with a deadly weapon, but it's assault none the less.

Errr.... they didn't just walk up to him and Taser him. In fact he assaults the black cop well before he's tasered which makes the taser a response to his assault, not vice versa.

YouTube - STUDENT TASERED FOR ASKING SEN KERRY ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION
At 1:09 he pushes one cop and then elbows into the chest and up into the black cop's chin. Once again, this is well before he is tasered. Keep your head together, Praxius.

That's not even going into the fact that he was warned repeatedly that "You will be tased if you do not comply". Durrr..

Remind me not to goto any of your parties where you have "escorts."

Well don't bother showing up to any of my parties if you're going to elbow your escorts in the face.

Interupting him in a louder tone then his and explain what is about to happen if he didn't shut up and walk away. Pretty simple and would have avoided a physical confrontation.

You can't honestly believe that. If you think this kid wouldn't have just simply raised his voice and ignored the cops like he had done the entire way along, you are completely out of touch with reality in this case and not worth debating.

Get real? We're the police forces there on the University's request or Kerry's?

All major University's have police. As far as I know they were merely there as any police are at any College function at any college. That said, even if Kerry requested their presence, that doesn't mean he controls them. If I ask the police to come over to my house because my estranged lover is threatening to kill me and they leave a patrol car outside all night, I can't order that officer around.

And the "Show" was about him..... one would think he'd have some authority as to what went on.... also... you know.... being a Senitor and all.

John Kerry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Forbes Kerry (born December 11, 1943) is the junior United States Senator from Massachusetts,

University of Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The University of Florida (Florida, UFL, or UF) is a public land-grant, space-grant, research university located in Gainesville, Florida.

[Chaossaber314]

YouTube - Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: ruksak Dumb cops? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you have little to no exposure to what they go through.

Yeah, dumb cops. And what they have to go through is irrelevant. If what "they have to go through" is too tough for them to use common sense, then they are in the wrong line of work.

Quote by: ruksak Decisions that must be made both instantaneously and judiciously.

This was clearly NOT a situation where any of them had to "instantaneously and judiciously" make a decision. The kid had been speaking for some time, the cops had more than ample opportunity to decide on a coherent plan of action.

Quote by: ruksak Hindsight not being in their bag of tricks, they must first control a situation before they can adjudicate it.

It was clearly the cops that escalated the situation, which doesn't do anything to "control" it. And, what "adjudication"? Just escort the kid outside and the problem is solved. Are you seriously going to try and claim that 4 or 5 cops couldn't take this kid down without a taser??

Quote by: ruksak I've gone out with my brother, an IMPD officer, on many occasions as part of a ride along. Seeing first hand how fast a nondescript and nonthreatening person can turn hostile or make an attempt to flee.

Yeah, this kid was either gonna "turn hostile" or else make his getaway.

Quote by: ruksak When a person is confronted by a police officer, they must respect both their authority and the fact that this is their job. Give them a break.

Much too often a police officer counts on his "authority" to order whatever he wants. That's not gonna cut it these days when more people are aware of their rights.

Quote by: ruksak The belligerent kid in this case did not respect them. He challenged their authority. He also chose to fight them. How can he now blame them for a decision he forced upon them?

Yep, he goaded them into doing exactly what he wanted them to do, and they went for it, hook, line, and sinker. Not only did he get all the attention he wanted, but he got national recognition as well. In addition, police use of tasers everywhere is now under much more scrutiny by the MSM, which will be looking for every instance of it's misuse, real or imagined. I'll bet that there are police forces all across the nation that are reviewing their taser policies because of this event.

Yeah, I repeat, dumb cops.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zeebadee Just escort the kid outside and the problem is solved.

You really aren't serious are you? Thats exactly what the whole issue was. They attempted to escort him out, right? I seem to remember how that didn't work out.

You really need to think things out before you post.

I'm still waiting for your proposal as to how you would have handled that kid.

Much too often a police officer counts on his "authority" to order whatever he wants. That's not gonna cut it these days when more people are aware of their rights.

First of all, how are police supposed to go about their jobs without having authority?
Secondly, what rights of this kid were violated?
Did they violate his right to disturb the peace? Did they rob him of his right to physically shove cops out of his way?
His right to crash a public forum with verbal abuse was definitely infringed.

I see what you mean now. Who are the police to think they they have a right to handcuff a person, just because hes under arrest. They didn't even ask him if it was a good time to handcuff him. They just assumed since they have a "job" to protect others that somehow this means they can do so at the expense of a threatening mans freedom.

Dumb cops.

[Zeebadee]

You don't catch on too quick, do you?

Quote by: ruksak You really aren't serious are you? Thats exactly what the whole issue was. They attempted to escort him out, right? I seem to remember how that didn't work out.

The goal was to escort him out without giving him all the publicity that he so obviously wanted. They had the kid on the ground, and they had the crowd on their side UNTIL they tasered him unnecessarily. Are you really going to try and tell me that this bunch of cops couldn't drag a handcuffed and restrained kid out without tasering him??

You really need to think things out before you post.

Quote by: ruksak I'm still waiting for your proposal as to how you would have handled that kid.

I believe that I've made that clear.

Quote by: ruksak First of all, how are police supposed to go about their jobs without having authority?

I never said that cops don't have authority, did I? I said that they frequently ABUSE that authority, leading some people to disrespect them. I know that I don't grant any cops the same automatic recognition of authority that I used to.

Quote by: ruksak Secondly, what rights of this kid were violated? Did they violate his right to disturb the peace? Did they rob him of his right to physically shove cops out of his way? His right to crash a public forum with verbal abuse was definitely infringed.

Your so-called sarcasm is wasted here. Again, since you don't seem to be able to read, I never said ANY of the kid's rights were violated, that he had the right to disturd the peace or shove cops. Where do you get this stuff??

Quote by: ruksak I see what you mean now. Who are the police to think they they have a right to handcuff a person, just because hes under arrest. They didn't even ask him if it was a good time to handcuff him. They just assumed since they have a "job" to protect others that somehow this means they can do so at the expense of a threatening mans freedom.

More extraneous garbage. I believe that I have said previously that the cops can legally justify their actions, the point is that there were other, better ways to handle this situation without giving the kid everything he wanted in the first place, and making themselves look like gestapo storm troopers. They're not dumb cops because they violated anyone's rights, or removed a disruptive kid. They're dumb cops because they turned a routine individual protest into a nationally televised event when it should have been totally non-newsworthy. They didn't use any common sense.

Quote by: ruksak Dumb cops.

[Maryjane]

That was some funny shit Chaos!

Very educational. I sent it to my sons.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zee I believe that I have said previously that the cops can legally justify their actions, the point is that there were other, better ways to handle this situation without giving the kid everything he wanted in the first place,

You keep saying this, but without any offering as to an alternative.

The goal was to escort him out without giving him all the publicity that he so obviously wanted.

WTF? Their goal? No. Their "goal" was to get the idiot to leave. The easy way, or the hard way. He chose the hard way, and they obliged. What makes you think they had a pre-set goal to not draw media attention? Sure, the guy wanted attention. That much is obvious. It is also inconsequential.

They had the kid on the ground, and they had the crowd on their side UNTIL they tasered him unnecessarily.

Many of the winesses voiced opposition to the idots stunt, and support of the cops. The shrill scream you hear on the video, is from his girlfreind. The witness statements paint a far different picture than what you are portrying.
A few witness statements;

“Let me expand a bit since I was there: Everything was going pretty well until this asshole showed up. So here’s how it went: Kerry gave a speech for roughly 40-45 mins first, then a moderator asked him some questions followed by a Q&A session. Obviously not everyone could get to ask a question. So after 6 or so questions, the moderator says that we won’t be taking any more questions. This guy gets really pissed since he was standing next in line, and starting shouting and making a ruckus. I was sitting just a few rows in front of the mic".

After the interrupted guy’s question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn’t leave peacefully. He wasn’t being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me. It’s a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn’t take it. He probably didn’t pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can’t just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn’t some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He’s just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn’t time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.

UF Student (justifiably) Tasered *Updated* « Ryan is Ossum

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: ruksak You keep saying this, but without any offering as to an alternative. WTF? Their goal? No. Their "goal" was to get the idiot to leave. The easy way, or the hard way. He chose the hard way, and they obliged. What makes you think they had a pre-set goal to not draw media attention? Sure, the guy wanted attention. That much is obvious. It is also inconsequential. Many of the winesses voiced opposition to the idots stunt, and support of the cops. The shrill scream you hear on the video, is from his girlfreind. The witness statements paint a far different picture than what you are portrying. A few witness statements;

I'll try once more to make my point. The kid (what's the word?) pwned these cops.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Zeebadee I'll try once more to make my point. The kid (what's the word?) pwned these cops.

"Don't taze me bro"!
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yep. He showed them a thing or two.

Explain how he "pwned" the cops. Preferably using English, as opposed to leet speak.
Because he made the news, screaming like an idiot and than urinating on himself while crying like a girl?

[bigdfilm]

Quote by: ruksak "Don't taze me bro"! BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Yep. He showed them a thing or two. Explain how he "pwned" the cops. Preferably using English, as opposed to leet speak. Because he made the news, screaming like an idiot and than urinating on himself while crying like a girl?

Oh Zing! Nice Ruksak.

I think the point stands... no one wants to be tasered.

THE COPS DID NOTHING WRONG! THEY DID ONLY WHAT THEY WERE ASKED TO DO AND WHEN THAT DID NOT WORK THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO. END OF STORY.

I'm sorry but the pukes in our society just dont get it. If you dont understand your rights you have no right to them.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: BigD I'm sorry but the pukes in our society just dont get it. If you dont understand your rights you have no right to them.

But I thought everyone knows their rights! At least that's what they always say when they're being arrested for doing something stupid.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: bigdfilm I work in law enforcement and I applaud the actions taken by the police in this matter. They handled the situation professionally and to the best of their ability. Please allow me to explain something to you... Freedom of Speech; is only applicable to public property, not private, a college, mall, or any other private property with public access is allowed to set rules as they see fit.

No shit a cop would think that. You actually find your life satisfying harming, imprisoning, and humiliating real human beings. Its sick, your job is sick, and you should feel ashamed of your career.

Quote by: ruksak So now you think our police forces power should be diminished to that of a hall monitor? As BigD pointed out, and I have already once in this thread, hind sight is crystal clear 20/20. That guy might have been a violent psychopathic nutjob, they aren't privileged to his mental state at the time, and his restless hands and constant physical resistance left the officers with no choice. After all, not only were there many civilians present that could have been injured, but a United States Senator. If that kid didn't want to get tased, he should have turned over, nose to the ground and shut the f*ck up and stopped rolling around. End of story.

Yes, reduced to hall monitor. I don't care what the fuck the cops thought. I don't care about their safety. Their the morons who signed up for the dangerous job of school police officers. They're not protected by the constitution and I as a real human can not really RELATE to cops, care nothing for their well being, and would rather have seen the crowd attacked and overthrown the cops violently then them harm an innocent HUMAN. Sorry, I'm just not anyone's bitch, and a cop has never helped me, protected me, or anyone i know ONCE in my life. But they have wrongfully harassed, framed, and arrested innocent people all over the country. Sorry man, FUCK COPS. get it?

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: bigdfilm THE COPS DID NOTHING WRONG! THEY DID ONLY WHAT THEY WERE ASKED TO DO AND WHEN THAT DID NOT WORK THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO. END OF STORY.

You don't get it you fucking nazi. The Cops were not ASKED by anyone to do anything. They ASSAULTED A HUMAN. Thats it, assault and battery. I think all the cops involved should be put in prison for their actions. And they are cops, the training involves how to eat a donut and beat black people over the head with a baton at the same time.End of story? More like end of democracy, hitler.