Student at a Kerry event is Tasered:

[grandpa]

Quote by: Praxius How somebody carries themselves when trying to get a point across, does not alter the message or the point.... he may have been an obnoxious college kid, but it was obnoxious college kids in the 60's who stood up to the government and help make a cultural revolution in the Americas......

That's why he was tasered. It was as if the cops were telling him "Get with the
program!" Government policies are often as spontaneous as this.

As for the Skull & Bones, if politicians don't want to get questioned about such things, they should stop joining them.

Grandpa h.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Praxius When you are being arrested, are you not supposed to be explained why you are being arrested?

No. They owe you no explanation WHILE they arrest you. He wasn't being arrested anyway. He was being removed.
What you have to understand is that this guy is a confrontationalist. He seems to enjoy upsetting people, and his machine gun firing of multiple questions was clearly disruptive. At first he actually garners some applause from the audience for his questions, but not a few minutes later the police were getting applause for removing him.
His drama queen behavior was apparent, and his motive to escalate the event was obvious. Hes jumping up and down pulling his arms away screaming "help me help me". Help him from what? From being escorted out?
This video is far better than the one I've been seeing;
LiveLeak.com - Student Tasered After Asking John Kerry Questions

Darn..... he used up a couple extra minutes of everyone's precious little lives.... let's jump him

He wasn't doing anything but trying to be an asshole. He asked question after question, would then answer his own question, and then ask another question.

Lets put this kid into his proper context.

Apparently he also has a blog; there is a picture that shows him on a street corner with a sign that tells the ending of the last Harry Potter book. There is no reason for that except to draw attention to yourself for being an ass and piss other people off.

Meyer has his own Web site and it contains several "comedy" videos that he appears in. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk while trying to pick up a woman in a bar.

His demeanor preceding the arrest as well as his history goes a long way to explain how and why he ended up with tazer prongs in his back.

Which is the real question, did they need to tazer him?
We can't see in the videos exactly what motions he was making, so we have to judge him on his behavior immediately preceding the tazing. Hes reacting quite violently in his refusal to leave. Hes screaming "help me help me" when the only thing being done is hes being escorted out. I say help yourself Andrew, and shut the f*ck up and leave.

Whats important to remember is his mic wasn't shut off for what he said, rather how he was saying it. He obviously came there to cause trouble, and he got it.

[Chaossaber314]

YouTube - STUDENT TASERED FOR ASKING SEN KERRY ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION

In this video at 1:09 you can clearly see him push one of the cops and drive an elbow into the chest of another. At which point the use of non-lethal force was totally justified.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Praxius Did he [Kerry] answer any of his questions?

It's hard to answer when the questioner refuses to stop questioning/preaching.

Quote by: Praxius Darn..... he used up a couple extra minutes of everyone's precious little lives.... let's jump him.

I saw the student push and elbow the cops first. Being "jumped" implies a sneak attack.

Quote by: Praxius When you are being arrested, are you not supposed to be explained why you are being arrested?

Sure, if the person doesn't resist arrest. Once cuffed, the cops have an obligation to inform the suspect of his rights and the reasons for the arrest.

I would have to see the videos again, but I think at least one of the cops said "disturbing the peace" during the cuffing episode. The student didn't think he had disturbed the peace obviously. But most of the audience did, judging by the applause given to the officers up until the tasing incident.

[ruksak]

Kerry really did want to answer his questions, but the kid wouldn't stop asking them. Its quite comical how you can hear Kerry answering the kids questions while he was being tazed.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ruksak No. They owe you no explanation WHILE they arrest you. He wasn't being arrested anyway. He was being removed.

Oh..... well he was being "Removed" my mistake.... so if he wasn't being arrested, why did they taser him? Why did one of the officers pull their gun?

And sorry, but the only time they do not have to give you an explination is if there is a heat of the moment confrontation in which there is danger to the officers in question. After arrested they have to explain why they arrested you and what charges are being planned.

What you have to understand is that this guy is a confrontationalist.

So what? Just because he likes to strike at some people's nerves, doesn't mean he get's less rights then anybody else..... nobody is getting harmed and at worst, just annoyed..... but there is no excuse for aggressive force as they applied.

He seems to enjoy upsetting people, and his machine gun firing of multiple questions was clearly disruptive. At first he actually garners some applause from the audience for his questions, but not a few minutes later the police were getting applause for removing him.

I don't believe that is an accurate measure of things, considdering that audience would have had a mix of population such as in this forum, where one would be appaulding his stand up questions which are known to cause a stirr, and the others would be applauding for him being shut up and conforming to authority and being respectful... it wasn't a majority of anybody in there, as if you are in a public place and don't approve of someone's actions, you normally either remain silent to avoid egging them on, or you stand up yourself and confront their behavior.

And it would seem as though I enjoy upsetting people in here.... but that's all about perception, as I'd much rather have people informed on something rather then be ignorant.

He could have come up to the mic dressed like a drag queen clown man, and he would still have the rights to ask the questions he did.

His drama queen behavior was apparent, and his motive to escalate the event was obvious. Hes jumping up and down pulling his arms away screaming "help me help me". Help him from what? From being escorted out?

He wanted help from being wrongfully arrested, and not being explained why he was being arrested or the level of force being put on him for asking some questions.

Kerry apparently said he reminded him of himself at that age protesting... so he didn't seem to have an issue with it.

The fact is, if some cops came along and attempted to arrest me without stating why, I would make it apparent as well that something's screwed up.

This video is far better than the one I've been seeing; LiveLeak.com - Student Tasered After Asking John Kerry Questions He wasn't doing anything but trying to be an asshole. He asked question after question, would then answer his own question, and then ask another question.

Yeah, alright, fine.... but it shouldn't have to take several cops, a taser and one pulling their gun to stop this mad man with a BOOK! OMG LOOK OUT!

The kid is like a Buck O'Five, and even if he was disturbing the normal flow of things, the remaining fact are not invisable in this matter.

• Kerry allowed him to ask questions after the time was over, which would have promoted anybody passionate about these topics to try and get as many in as they can.

• Kerry confused the situation by permitting him to ask the questions, saying he was willing to answer them, and yet allowing the police to jump him.

• Regardless if it was all for a stunt and to make a scene is irrelevent compared to the excessive force used to stifle his right to freedom of speach, which for it's relevence could have been a recipie for chicken soup.

Lets put this kid into his proper context. Apparently he also has a blog; there is a picture that shows him on a street corner with a sign that tells the ending of the last Harry Potter book. There is no reason for that except to draw attention to yourself for being an ass and piss other people off.

Yeah? So?

Meyer has his own Web site and it contains several "comedy" videos that he appears in. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk while trying to pick up a woman in a bar.

What's your point? Many people already knew the ending before the book was released.... and there could be various reasons for attempting to pick up a girl while drunk... which could have been a social studies research project, to prove a point about something, or for his own shits and giggles...... I see no relation to what we're talking about here.

His demeanor preceding the arrest as well as his history goes a long way to explain how and why he ended up with tazer prongs in his back.

You know, if I was allowed to taser every person I crossed whom I found annoying or a bother, I'd have to invest in the company....... all this shows is ignorance on one's freedoms, and limited patience for those whom are different, nothing explaining a rellivent reason to use the force which was used.

Which is the real question, did they need to tazer him? We can't see in the videos exactly what motions he was making, so we have to judge him on his behavior immediately preceding the tazing. Hes reacting quite violently in his refusal to leave.

Violent? Come off it..... He was about as violent as a 6 year old having a fit not wanting to goto his room, at the worst.

Hes screaming "help me help me" when the only thing being done is hes being escorted out. I say help yourself Andrew, and shut the f*ck up and leave.

Um at the time he was being surrounded by cops, being carried away and knew he had not broken any laws for such force to be used. As I said before, I've seen news reporters and poloticians act the exact same way on TV, yet they never got this treatment...... oh.... that's because they're rich and known. :rolleyes:

If I had a bunch of people entering my personal space, trying to grab ahold of me and attempting to subdue me for exercising my right to freedom of speach, and not clearly stating why they are taking physical action against me while I have not posed any threat to them..... I will most certainly make a threat for them.

No wait.... sorry, I don't make threats.... I learned from my father to not make threats, just Promises.

I'd give those cops a reason to taser and arrest me.

Whats important to remember is his mic wasn't shut off for what he said, rather how he was saying it. He obviously came there to cause trouble, and he got it.

Oh well then.... I didn't know there were laws on speech edicate.

At the worst, the trouble he was making was no worse then some guy streaking down the football field during half-time.

There were a multitude of ways this could have been delt with besides what happened...... I think your cops are just a little trigger happy with their authoritah.

[Praxius]

Quote by: The Decider It's hard to answer when the questioner refuses to stop questioning/preaching.

Then Kerry should have taken control of the situation and debated back and at least asked him in an overpowering tone if he would like his questions answered before he continued on his rant. In this aspect, Kerry failed as a potiential leader.

I saw the student push and elbow the cops first. Being "jumped" implies a sneak attack.

We're the Cops trying at that time to physically subdue him? From what I saw, they were trying to grab at him at the time he was trying to push them back off. Without any notice on their part, they would get the same from me. The same end result may have occured in my case, considdering I'm about twice this kids height and size, but the main reason why cops down there seem to get involved in more physical confrontations seems to lie in the way they love to approach people.... all grabby and pushy...... and anybody's gonna get a little testy when you start with that crap.

Sure, if the person doesn't resist arrest. Once cuffed, the cops have an obligation to inform the suspect of his rights and the reasons for the arrest.

Well if they were informed in the first place as to why they were to be arrested, then you'd probably see a lot less resistence in such cases as this.

This isn't just a concern about freedom of speech, but also how US police seem to conduct themselves and their proceedures.

I would have to see the videos again, but I think at least one of the cops said "disturbing the peace" during the cuffing episode. The student didn't think he had disturbed the peace obviously. But most of the audience did, judging by the applause given to the officers up until the tasing incident.

I also have to review the videos again, as I have only seen the one I supplied thus far and at work.

All I know at this point, as it could have been delt with and controlled a lot better then it was.

[Praxius]

I honestly don't see this guy actually trying to be a shit disturber, but from his past actions, I think he was more-so attempting to get a potiential leader of the country placed in a difficult situation with difficult questions..... which none of these candidates have yet been put through yet.....

[ruksak]

Quote by: Praxius He wanted help from being wrongfully arrested, and not being explained why he was being arrested or the level of force being put on him for asking some questions.

Heres what you're not understanding. He wasn't being arrested then. He was saying that he was being arrested. He was being removed.

Oh..... well he was being "Removed" my mistake.... so if he wasn't being arrested, why did they taser him?

Because he was being arrested at that point. At first he was being asked to leave with the officers. He wanted to fight. So he was then arrested. To listen to you one would think the cops just jumped at him and tazed him while he was still asking questions. There was a sequence to these events, and you seem to be getting them all mixed up.

Kerry allowed him to ask questions after the time was over, which would have promoted anybody passionate about these topics to try and get as many in as they can. • Kerry confused the situation by permitting him to ask the questions, saying he was willing to answer them, and yet allowing the police to jump him. • Regardless if it was all for a stunt and to make a scene is irrelevant compared to the excessive force used to stifle his right to freedom of speech, which for it's relevance could have been a recipie for chicken soup.

Laff

Kerry is not a police officer, hes a Senator. Thats all I have to say toward your above misguided rantings.

What's your point? Many people already knew the ending before the book was released.... and there could be various reasons for attempting to pick up a girl while drunk... which could have been a social studies research project, to prove a point about something, or for his own shits and giggles...... I see no relation to what we're talking about here.

It goes to show that this guy apparently makes a habit out of being a shit stirring troll. His past actions of amusing himself by pissing people off, combined with the video documentation of his belligerent attitude that day, show how this thing ended with the idiot getting tazered.

You know, if I was allowed to taser every person I crossed whom I found annoying or a bother, I'd have to invest in the company....... all this shows is ignorance on one's freedoms, and limited patience for those whom are different, nothing explaining a relevant reason to use the force which was used.

Do you know why its so dangerous from a cops perception to wrestle physically with people?
There are two reasons actually.

1) They are accustomed to dealing with people that have no qualms with hurting a police officer to get away from them.
2) They have a sidearm. Wrestling with someone when you have a sidearm is dangerous to yourself. Its better to have it drawn in this case.

Violent? Come off it..... He was about as violent as a 6 year old having a fit not wanting to goto his room, at the worst.

"Violent" is not really a subjective term. He made physically aggressive movements toward the officers. An obvious elbow to the black officer.

I got some advice for ya...........DON'T EVER fight the cops. Its dumb. You will get your ass kicked.

If I had a bunch of people entering my personal space, trying to grab hold of me and attempting to subdue me for exercising my right to freedom of speach, and not clearly stating why they are taking physical action against me while I have not posed any threat to them..... I will most certainly make a threat for them.

PEOPLE?

They we're cops brother. Not just people. I carry a sidearm everywhere I go. Even in the grocery store. I concur, if "people" start grabbing at me like that, they're getting dispatched with deadly force. But not if these "people" are cops. No sir.

Heres the shake down on this. If you ever feel you are being treated unfairly by the police. If you feel your rights are being trampled upon. The best reaction is no reaction. Do what they ask and address it later. Everyone knows this. But people don't always do this. Much like this idiot kid, some people choose to fight it out on the spot, and thats stupid. You must pick your battles, as well as when to fight them.

Think of how different this whole thing would have turned out if he hadn't had an obvious plan to cause a serious disruption. How would this have turned out if he had just went with the police and left the building? He could have then addressed it, if he had felt his rights to free speech we're violated.
But nooooo, he had to pull away and try to run around, hoping up and down screaming "help me help me why am I being arrested". Give me a break. You're not being arrested asshole, you're being made to leave this room because everyone thinks you're being a dick. Did you not hear the uproarious applause as the cops first drug him off? Everyone wanted him gone.

At the worst, the trouble he was making was no worse then some guy streaking down the football field during half-time.

Yep. And last time a guy did that, he took the ball from Brett Favre. Moments later he got borchecked to the ground by the security so violently and hard, he needed medical attention. 80,000 people cheered the wounding of the idiot that came to ruin the game. Much the same, we should all applaud the moron that got tazed while trying to ruin the forum with Kerry.

[Chaossaber314]

Oh..... well he was being "Removed" my mistake.... so if he wasn't being arrested, why did they taser him? Why did one of the officers pull their gun?

Oh get off. The one officer pulled a TASER gun, not a 9mm. Get real. If you're not going to debate even the obvious unquestionable elements of this incident truthfully, why should we debate the elements of this that are in fact questionable.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Oh get off. The one officer pulled a TASER gun, not a 9mm. Get real. If you're not going to debate even the obvious unquestionable elements of this incident truthfully, why should we debate the elements of this that are in fact questionable.

I believe another video was showing one going for his pistol, and the taser is a given.

Either way about the details and what we think, you guys may have heard the people cheering in the end when they took him off podium, but if you watched the end where they tasered him and hauled him off, the people who witnessed it were screaming at the cops and asking why they were doing this..... apparently most there didn't feel it was proper.

oh well.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: ruksak I question authority when appropriate. However in this case, the kid was just being a disruptive loud mouth idiot. Whats more is the bastard fought the cops at the end by making an aggressive move to pull away. They have no idea what hes thinking. He could pull a gun, one of theirs perhaps, a knife. They simply don't know.

They were harming him, physically harming him. Its a very natural reaction to resist against violence. Whats artificial is the law's right to hurt others.

Quote by: ruksak He was asked to sit down several times. He did not He was asked to be quite several times as he hijacked way more time on the floor than anyone else in the room. He did not. He was then forcefully removed from the floor. He resisted even this. BZZZZZZZ problem solved.

Yeah Kerry's and the free mason's problem. But its just the beginning of our problems.

[bigdfilm]

I work in law enforcement and I applaud the actions taken by the police in this matter. They handled the situation professionally and to the best of their ability. Please allow me to explain something to you...

Freedom of Speech; is only applicable to public property, not private, a college, mall, or any other private property with public access is allowed to set rules as they see fit. For example many businesses will not allow firearms into their building. Many uneducated liberals will tell you this is a direct violation of the second amendment. This is not true. Yes, the constitution is upheld on private property but not the bill of rights.

Once he is asked to leave the police would have escorted him outside the property and asked him not to return for at least the remainder of the day. If he had been any kind of a sensible human being he would have understood this. Because however he is a so-called "educated" liberal he believed that his bill of rights was protected in this situation.

The job of the police:

Once and incident has started and the police have been asked to step in to keep the peace they will complete their objective. If you fight you will be treated like any other hardened criminal out there. So as to not discriminate. People like to cite his rights as a human being and that we were not upholding those rights when force was used. The police have to think about the rights of all the others around. The right to life and safety of the audience is first and foremost. The police did not know if had had a weapon or what his mentality was at the time, judging from his display it is to be assumed that he might hurt an innocent. At this point the officer is obligated to take control of the situation for his safety and the safety of all the citizens he has sworn to protect. If this means temporarily harming one person, so be it.

Even before the taser was activated he was warned and given many opportunities to calm his actions. This situation was totally in this young liberals control. He however chose to fight. At this point ALL rights go out the door.

As for Praxius comments about the rights being read. This is only necessary AFTER the situation is under control, the Miranda Rights are only to inform the suspect of his rights in the court room and his legal actions. The reason for the arrest is only a courtesy to be taken after control is managed. They did not read him his rights as they were only going to escort him from the premises. It would be silly to try to read him his rights during the control process. Besides I don't think he would have heard them over the screaming he was doing.

[ruksak]

Quote by: bigD As for Praxius comments about the rights being read. This is only necessary AFTER the situation is under control, the Miranda Rights are only to inform the suspect of his rights in the court room and his legal actions.

I already told him this, but according to him they have to tell you why they are arresting you while they fight with you. :rolleyes:

Quote by: Suburbanite They were harming him, physically harming him. Its a very natural reaction to resist against violence. Whats artificial is the law's right to hurt others.

So now you think our police forces power should be diminished to that of a hall monitor? As BigD pointed out, and I have already once in this thread, hind sight is crystal clear 20/20. That guy might have been a violent psychopathic nutjob, they aren't privileged to his mental state at the time, and his restless hands and constant physical resistance left the officers with no choice. After all, not only were there many civilians present that could have been injured, but a United States Senator.

If that kid didn't want to get tased, he should have turned over, nose to the ground and shut the f*ck up and stopped rolling around. End of story.

[xyzer]

I picture this type violent resistence to authority as potentially dangerous to those involved and to bystanders. It was obviously not a peaceful demonstration.What if others had joined in? A riot could easily have ensued? This jerk was out of line! IMO he should have been treated more violently when he continued to resist!. He was given ample time and warning to stop his stupid attention grabbing protest as the video showed. Most of the police intervention was just trying to get him out of the area? A normal person(or one without some sort of agenda) would have stopped and moved away as he was obviously asked to do.

[ruksak]

Whats being missed is the fact that when they had him on the ground, they were trying to handcuff him, and he wouldn't allow them to. So they tased him in order to do this. Thats why he was tased. Not because the cops were pissed at him. They did it as a last means in order to restrain him and end the threat he posed.

[grandpa]

Quote by: ruksak Whats being missed is the fact that when they had him on the ground, they were trying to handcuff him, and he wouldn't allow them to. So they tased him in order to do this.

Your argument implied that the officers could not have "let him get away with it."
But what exactly did he do wrong?

What's being missed is how he was saying he would leave if they would let go of him. The proper thing would hav ebeen to just let him go and assume he might leave.
Also, when you arrest someone for apparently no reason, a cop--or anyone with a brain--should expect the person to put up some resistance.

What's being missed is how this was an unjust arrest, an unjust use of force and the guy reacted the way many people would. He had no way of knowing what he had done to get arrested, other than overusing his time during a Q&A session. He wasn't threatening anybody or "trying to incite a riot" as at least one officer stated
("trying to stir minds up" doesn't necessarily mean starting a riot). In fact, the officers were acting in a manner appropriate for creating riots.

And the saddest point is how this kid was oppressed (that's indeed what this was, I'm not just doing hyperbole) even though Kerry was obviously willing to answer the questions, which were reasonable, though not asked in the best way.

That's what you are missing, and it's depicted clearly in the footage.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa What's being missed is how he was saying he would leave if they would let go of him. The proper thing would hav ebeen to just let him go and assume he might leave.

The guy didn't stop and leave when he was originally asked to. Why should they just "assume" he'll leave on his own?? That would be stupid.

Quote by: grandpa Also, when you arrest someone for apparently no reason,

How about disturbing the peace?

[ruksak]

Quote by: Grandpa Your argument implied that the officers could not have "let him get away with it."

Get away with what? When you're under arrest, you're going with them, like it or not. The subject isn't up for review at that point. You're best to put your hands behind your back willingly. He chose not to.

What's being missed is how he was saying he would leave if they would let go of him.

Why didn't he say he would leave before he was being arrested? He had ample opportunity to do so. He didn't want to leave until it was to late.

Also, when you arrest someone for apparently no reason, a cop--or anyone with a brain--should expect the person to put up some resistance.

Thats not logical. At least not in this case. I betcha that punk ass kid had a pretty good idea what he did wrong. He was asked to sit down and be quiet. He screamed and yelled. He was asked to leave. He screamed and yelled some more. He was then physically escorted out, STILL NOT UNDER ARREST, and he fought the police physically in an effort to stay. Thats when he was placed under arrest. When you are placed under arrest, you had better allow them to restrain you with cuffs. If you fight it, they have several tools at their disposal, including pepper spray, physical manipulation of your joints (using pain inducing techniques), and of course ~~~TASERS~~~. All legal, all by the book procedural applications of standard equipment.

Looking at the video, the police could have tased him as soon as he elbowed that black officer while doing that whiling move to free himself. Right then, right there they had every right to drop his silly ass. BUT, they showed restraint and didn't use the taser option until a few moments later when he still refused to get on his stomach and put both hands behind his back.

[Chaossaber314]

Yeah, if there's a wrongful arrest you fight it in the courts later, you don't fight the arresting officers. At least you don't fight the arresting officers and then be surprised when they beat your dumb ass.