Bush Setting Up Attack on Iran?

[Contumacious]

t you failed to answer, was what in the directive did you consider tyrannical??

BTW, this is from a REPUBLICAN WEBSITE:

The directive specifies that the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism will be designated as the National Continuity Coordinator.

Further established is a Continuity Policy Coordination Committee, chaired by a senior director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, to be "the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination."

Currently, the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism is Frances Fragos Townsend.

Townsend spent 13 years at the Justice Department before moving to the U.S. Coast Guard where she served as assistant commandant for intelligence.

She is a White House staff member in the executive office of the president who also chairs the Homeland Security Council, which as a counterpart to the National Security Council reports directly to the president.

The directive issued May 9 makes no attempt to reconcile the powers created there for the National Continuity Coordinator with the National Emergency Act. As specified by U.S. Code Title 50, Chapter 34, Subchapter II, Section 1621, the National Emergency Act allows that the president may declare a national emergency but requires that such proclamation "shall immediately be transmitted to the Congress and published in the Federal Register."

A Congressional Research Service study notes that under the National Emergency Act, the president "may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens."

The CRS study notes that the National Emergency Act sets up congress as a balance empowered to "modify, rescind, or render dormant such delegated emergency authority," if Congress believes the president has acted inappropriately.

NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 appears to supersede the National Emergency Act by creating the new position of National Continuity Coordinator without any specific act of Congress authorizing the position.

NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 also makes no reference whatsoever to Congress. The language of the May 9 directive appears to negate any a requirement that the president submit to Congress a determination that a national emergency exists, suggesting instead that the powers of the executive order can be implemented without any congressional approval or oversight.

Homeland Security spokesperson Russ Knocke affirmed that the Homeland Security Department will be implementing the requirements of NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 under Townsend's direction.

The White House had no comment.

[Praxius]

Guess you missed the article I posted...let me try it again.... "Iran’s efforts to expand its enrichment capability would be useful in building a nuclear bomb, but are not needed for civil nuclear energy purposes."
Not proof of a nuclear weapon being worked on, but does put a LOT of suspicion on their part...

Yeah, so you and everybody else seem all ready to start the next World War based on Suspicions..... I feel so much more secure now.

And why exactly would it not be needed for nuclear energy purposes?

Enriched uranium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enriched uranium is a critical component for both civil nuclear power generation and military nuclear weapons.

It depends on the amount of enrichment they apply, and if they are increasing their enrichment productivity, depending on how you want to translate that into english, could either mean they are speeding up the process or they are increasing their enrichment levels.

If they are speeding production up, then that would show they are planning on making many energy plants.... if they are increasing the enrichment levels to something like the above graph, then there may be room for concern.

In fact, here:

Iran has enriched uranium: watchdog

Back when they first did it, your President's reponse:

It's very important for the Iranians to understand there is a common desire by a lot of nations in this world to convince them, peacefully convince them, that they ought to give up their weapons ambitions," Bush said during a news conference in the White House's Rose Garden.

#1 - He seemed at the time more apt for talks rather then military muster.

#2 - He already assumes Iran was planning the Enrichment for Weapons, with no evidence provided.

Ahmadinejad voices defiance at rally

Before the report's release, Iran's president said he doesn't "give a damn" about calls to end his country's nuclear program.

Speaking at a rally in northwest Iran, Ahmadinejad said his country had a right to pursue nuclear technology.

"Those who want to prevent Iranians from obtaining their right, should know that we do not give a damn to such resolutions," said Ahmadinejad, according to Iran's official news agency IRNA.

"Enemies think that by ... threatening us, launching psychological warfare or ... imposing embargos can dissuade our nation to obtain nuclear technology." Western nations accuse Tehran of pursuing nuclear weapons through its program, while Iran says it is working on new energy sources.

And he has every right to protect his country's best interests and seek whatever means of energy he and his country feels they need to improve their quality of life.

You guys have everybody all around the world complaining about pollution and global warming, and how most 2nd and 3rd world countries produce a lot..... and you have plenty here in the forums talking about nuclear energy as a good alternative to coal and other pollutive energies.

But since Iran is enriching uranium and not caring about the world's Nuclear watchdogs, still isn't enough to prove they are working on weapons. They've been kinda kicked around by the rest of the world for quite a long time, why would they trust our watchdogs? Why would they feel that the world is out for their best interests anyways?

I'm pretty sure that if the roles were reversed and Iran already had nukes and the US planned on making them, you guys would be telling the rest of the world to take a flying f*ck into a cactus, much as they are.

Um yeah, Canada is a huge terrorist target...:rolleyes:

That should tell you something.

They probably don't want us to point the finger at them if it were to happen, but are they trying to prevent it? Doubtful, at best.

Well when you think about it, it's not our responsibility to keep your country safe in the first place. And when you think about it, if someone really wants to blow a hole in your country with a big bomb, there are only so many ways to enter your country.... be that via Mexico, Canada, or by the Coastlines. And you guys have everything all fortified up and analyzed so much that the potiential of anybody actually attempting to bring a nuke from across the borders seems highly unlikely.

In fact the most logical thing to do if I was a terrorist, is to fuel more home grown terrorists in your country, thereby already bypassing your border security and the security of other countries.

Caution is always prudent, but there's substantial reason to have fear as well.

Only if you're a Pygmy Marmoset

It's the "Pussy Way" to not get into a nuclear war?? :eek: What do you mean by that???

I mean the level of diplomacy that is missing in your logic.

Countries are permitted to have civilian nuclear energy...but for a country to hide it's nuclear program, not let inspectors in for a considerable length of time, violate the terms of the NPT they signed, and build unnecessary enrichment facilities makes....well, put 2 and 2 together. (the answer is 4, btw).

That's nice, but 4 isn't the solution to this issue.

Unnecissary Enrichment facilities? Who are you or your country to determine the methods in which they plan on producing their energy?

Maybe.... just maybe they found a more productive, more effective method of producing Uranium which could give them a financial advantage to the rest of the world that they are trying to hide..... honestly, who really knows? The fact is, just because they decided to not play by your rules but their own, doesn't make them a threat at this point.

The moment it appears there is some sort of actual physical threat to the lives of people on this planet, then I will change my tone. What that will require is actual physical evidence of Nuclear weaponry, such as internal photos within Iran's borders of nuclear equipment and missiles/bombs in the same locations, or close proximity to not be a coiencidence. Satalite shots confirming transportation of the weapons from within their borders. Iran actually telling the world they got nukes.

Until there is any evidence besides them being a bit prickish to the rest of the world, I see no reason to start a war with them.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here...what I said was that I hope the Inspections DO work and that Iran is truly not working on building a nuclear weapon....I didn't mention the inspectors helping them...not sure how you got that..

My apologies, I misread.... I thought you typed Inspectors, rather then inspections..... in other words is sounded like you were suspecting the inspectors were helping Iran build a nuke, which didn't make much sense.

But I as well hope the inspections do work, but until any of us hear back on yay or nay, then talking about starting a war with Iran is jumping the gun, so to speak.

[thx1138]

The way I see the threat is this. They're trying to build a nuclear weapon. Their president is a known terrorist and mad man. They support multiple terrorist organizations. If they do build nuclear weapons, there is a very real possibility that those terrorist organizations they support could do harm to us and/or our allies.

This is like a broken record... what was said back in 2002 about Iraq?

A some point you have to realize that the U.S. can not invade every country that is developing nuclear power.

[Dieval]

But I as well hope the inspections do work, but until any of us hear back on yay or nay, then talking about starting a war with Iran is jumping the gun, so to speak.

You realize that all I originally said was that I'm sure there are plans being made. It doesn't mean they'll ever act on them, and I hope they don't ever need to be acted upon, but If the time comes to take action, well, if you have to make your plans then, it's too late.

[Praxius]

You realize that all I originally said was that I'm sure there are plans being made. It doesn't mean they'll ever act on them, and I hope they don't ever need to be acted upon, but If the time comes to take action, well, if you have to make your plans then, it's too late.

Fair enough.... I just don't see a nessecity for making the plans as public as they are, if that's the case.... except show boating or influence..... either way, throwing out the talks about war and invasions after clearly already instigating two other invasions, isn't something I considder a light topic of conversation.

[Dieval]

Fair enough.... I just don't see a nessecity for making the plans as public as they are, if that's the case.... except show boating or influence..... either way, throwing out the talks about war and invasions after clearly already instigating two other invasions, isn't something I considder a light topic of conversation.

It could be that making them public was all part of the master plan...to do a little saber rattling of our own and try to influence their actions without actually having to take action against them..

[Praxius]

It could be that making them public was all part of the master plan...to do a little saber rattling of our own and try to influence their actions without actually having to take action against them..

The problem lies in if they decide to call your bluff.... it's a dangerous game to be playing at this stage for your country... and I don't mean that as a negative thing, but more so concern, considdering in Iraq you guys have more Mercs then you do US troops, I don't see how you guys can spread out over to Iran if you were forced to, at the same time trying to complete missions in Afghanistan, Iraq and defending your homeland..... it would be greatly unwise to attempt this, unless you can get a lot more support from other countries then what you got in Iraq.

[BobbyO]

How come Bush is so up and iching to attack Iran, but when it came to North Korea, it was all about sanctions.... even though N.Korea was proven to have detonated a nuclear sized device?

"Kill us all??" I am unaware of any story of an imminent American invasion of Nova Scotia.
Or do you mean (probably) that it is the USA which causes the problems of the world for which others must react to, as opposed to the other way around?

And to wonder why theb USA does not attack North Korea for having nukes, rather than speculate why USA might attack Iran because it does not, is vapid. It is too late in the case of North Korea to prevent Pyongyang from nukes because they have them. The problem exists. Not so in Iran.

[BobbyO]

Bush to Rule By Decree. America Yawns


The New York Times today reports that the US prez just signed an executive order shifting power to the executive branch in the areas of “public health, safety, the environment, civil rights and privacy.”

So what’s the dif between this and what’s happening this week in Venezuela? A few big ones come to mind:

--The president granted this power to himself with an executive order. In Venezuela, certain powers stand to be shifted through a vote in the legislature.

The president HAS that authority anyhow.
There seems to be this nonsense thinking that the power of the president is somehow dependent upon the consent of the legislature. It isn't. The office of the president has authority independent of the opinion of the legislature.

[BobbyO]

This is like a broken record... what was said back in 2002 about Iraq?

A some point you have to realize that the U.S. can not invade every country that is developing nuclear power.

The USA obviously doesn't do this. A number of South American countries have nuclear power plants, and nobody cares. Because nobody is particularly worried about the intentions of a nuclear Brazil.

But people are worried about the intentions of Iran. Europe has led the way over the past decade in trying to stop Iran from developing such energy. Clearly, even they saw saw a nuclear Iran as a potential source of trouble. Now with Iran determined to develop nuclear energy, the rationalisations come fast and furious to justify and defend it. The problem is being defined as trying to stop it, which was the whole effort to begin with.

[grandpa]

The USA obviously doesn't do this.
A number of South American countries have nuclear power plants,
and nobody cares.

Also, nobody supposedly cares that the US has a nuclear-weapons program (and is undoubtedly expanding it).

Grandpa h.

[ibm]

last time i checked, the chinese and the russians both have nukes. i think it is a real possiblility that some chinese or russian terrorists could carry a nuke and cross our fence-less border and harm us. therefore, we should attack china and russia.

as a matter of fact, we should all be thankful and reliaze how fortunate we have been. back to the cold war era and the time the former ussr was falling apart, not one single incident like that happened...