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bishop · Jun 20, 2004, 10:30 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/...tage/index.html

these guys seem to think that beheading civilian contractors is going to persuade countries to withdraw from iraq. imo, it's going to have the opposite effect or none at all.

Scribbler1 · Jun 20, 2004, 10:56 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bishop,
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/...tage/index.html

these guys seem to think that beheading civilian contractors is going to persuade countries to withdraw from iraq. imo, it's going to have the opposite effect or none at all.

Agreed, at least in the U.S., we have a history of being less than cooperative when we're pissed off. Regardless of whether we went in wrongly or not, we don't back down. The problem is these bastards don't have anything else to hit us with and they're none too smart, as they probably won't understand that pulling these stunts are counterproductive at best.

I just hope the Koreans don't cave. It could get even MORE lonely out there.

bishop · Jun 20, 2004, 11:20 pm

well.. these 3,000 troops are a recent addition. obviously, they're there because of the situation with north korea, rather than iraq. given that reality, i don't think this hostage's fate will bear much significance.

damn straight that they aren't too smart.. acts like these won't help their cause in the slightest. besides our involvement, acts like these will promote a new iraqi strongman - who's most likely going to be rule as a secular authoritarian.

these acts might actually help our position over there with the iraqi people.. especially if they're increasingly worried about their security, and lack confidence in iraqi authorities. i remember seeing an iraqi interviewed after the latest suicide bombing where he was pleading that the government institute martial law.

Zeebadee · Jun 21, 2004, 01:14 am

Quote:

Originally posted by bishop,
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/...tage/index.html

these guys seem to think that beheading civilian contractors is going to persuade countries to withdraw from iraq. imo, it's going to have the opposite effect or none at all.

It's probably going to get the rest of the civilian contractors a hefty pay raise though. And they're already making big bucks.

5010 · Jun 21, 2004, 05:22 pm

I think SK should respond with this answer "We are sending 3000 troops. How angry do you want them to be when they arrive?"

tusaki · Jun 21, 2004, 05:50 pm

That won't help, what can angry soldiers do there?. The alliance is bound by other moral laws than the ones they are fighting. The terrorists don't have any morals or conscience. They will use every sick tactic to kill as many westerners as possible. It's pretty damn hard to fight something when they are invisible... it could be you walk past a group of men, who smile and wave, and after you've turned your back, they lob a grenade at you. Or even you give a ball to a kid, who smiles, walks to his mother, gets his AK47 and starts shooting at you. Exaggerated perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

Ralph38449 · Jun 21, 2004, 06:55 pm

bishop, I hope you are right.

tusaki, wow, a little harsh aren't we. It is just old tactics, like the Americans used against the British in our fight for what we saw as right. You fight from spots where you can't be seen or shot. Classic strategy, it doesn't make it right, but MOST is fair in love and war.

Also I thought SK was going to cut all ties with us???

sixmillman · Jun 21, 2004, 10:28 pm

I feel so bad for this guy. These are sick bastards we are fighting. I'm trying to think what is more humiliating, having a pair of panties on my head, or being made to plead for my life on world wide television. Sick Sick Bastards

Johnny Rebel · Jun 21, 2004, 11:49 pm

More desperation tactics by ignorant towel heads fighting for an ever dwendling cause. This is a sign of not only their ignorance but their desperation. At first they fought our soldiers out in the open, then they realized that a camel jockey is only good cannon fodder when he has a bomb on his back, so they started guerilla warefare activities which turned out only to be an annoyance, and that the desert ain't the jungle and that they knew were no vietcong. So they started this car bombing business, that didn't last long, so now they've resorted to this kind of child molestor mentality. I'll give it to them though, they'll resort to slashing the tires of hummers for Allah Baba before they quit.

Zeebadee · Jun 22, 2004, 12:50 am

"More desperation tactics by ignorant towel heads fighting for an ever dwendling cause."

They're fighting the only way that's available to them. Americans that can't seem to understand that make me wonder what kind of fight they would put up if this country were to be invaded.

Comrade · Jun 22, 2004, 01:08 am

Someone said, "We are sending 3000 troops, how angry do you want them to be when they arrive?"

That's the point. You people keep saying terrorists aren't smart. They want the South Koreans to be mad, they want the Koreans to commit reprisals, they want the Koreans to alienate the people of Iraq, removing support for the occupation.
That is why we didn't level Fallujah when they strung up those bodies underneath the bridge. Because the American commanders saw it for what it was: bait.

Zeebadee, what's with the hate? Of course terrorism is war on a shoestring, I don't understand how that justifies it. I also kinda resent the comparison between an American militia and the terrorists in Iraq. You make it sound as if they had popular support.
You probably think they do. I love our media. The prison scandal is going on several months of coverage now, despite that it hasn't changed any. Last December, Iraqis organized protests, not against America, but against the insurgents.
I didn't see ONE BIT OF COVERAGE on the news channels.

Zeebadee · Jun 22, 2004, 01:58 am

Hate?? What hate? I'm just noting that the people fighting us in Iraq are going to be extremely difficult to defeat. We can beat them down into submission, but only as long as we watch them 24 hours a day. They will be our friends, work for us, support us seemingly without question until we turn our back. As soon as they get a chance though, they'll stab us in the back without even a twinge of conscience. If the U.S. were to be similarly invaded, I would be doing exactly the same thing. And they certainly do have at least some popular support, or they couldn't mount these types of attacks. Justification? They see it as protecting their country. Try to put yourself in their place. Surprisingly, to a lot of Americans, there's a large part of the world that doesn't think we have the best country, economic system, or political structure.

Comrade · Jun 22, 2004, 02:04 am

Who is this "they" you are talking about? It isn't the vast majority of the Iraqi population.
You keep portraying the American occupation as some sort of conquest mission, that Iraqis are opposed to the instatement of democracy and that they want Saddam back because he was their "sovereign leader."

About people thinking that we don't have the best system, sure, of course. These people are called socialists, communists, fascists, islamic fundamentalists, theocrats...

America is the longest lasting government currently alive today. A lot of people point to Britain, but government in Britain at the time of the Constitutional Convention is a lot different than it is today (it was still dominated by the royal family), while, even after the Civil War, our system is still very recognizable as incredibly similar to the point of being the same.
I think that constitutes evidence that our system DOES work well. Unless European Socialism is a better idea? Look how well THAT is turning out for Europe.

Zeebadee · Jun 22, 2004, 02:32 am

"You keep portraying the American occupation as some sort of conquest mission, that Iraqis are opposed to the instatement of democracy and that they want Saddam back because he was their "sovereign leader."

Now you know I never said any such thing! I referred to "the people fighting us", didn't I? Nothing about them being a majority, and certainly nothing about their political beliefs or about them wanting saddam back. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? And the nature of the conflict is such that those opposing us could never survive if there wasn't at least some segment of the population supporting them. They attack us, then hide in the crowd, right out in the open. To a lot of Iraqi's, the war was over when saddam was removed from power. They'd like nothing better than for us to get out and leave them alone.

"America is the longest lasting government currently alive today"

So what? If this form of government is so good, why doesn't everyone adopt it? Or are you saying that everyone else in the world are " socialists, communists, fascists, islamic fundamentalists, theocrats..."

Ralph38449 · Jun 22, 2004, 10:02 am

Comrade
Sorry about the America militia thing but it was a comparison of unorganized taking every advantage against organized, and law abiding, soldiers.

They must have popularity from somewhere if they get all the funding I ASSUME they get.

Our gov. may be fundamentally the same, yet it took time, it took the will to make it, we had to feel it out, we are still fixing flaws and trying to update all of it. What works for one may not work for another. You hold more dearly what you dream and fight for. All things come to an end.

Yet to contradict that I say, all things come to an end, except the fight for freedom, we will prevail.

tusaki · Jun 22, 2004, 10:40 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade
Unless European Socialism is a better idea? Look how well THAT is turning out for Europe.

Quite good actually, what kind of medieval backward place do you think europe is? And I would hardly call your system of government superior. I think it's archaic and should be reformed.

sixmillman · Jun 22, 2004, 11:05 am

22 June 2004 - IslamToday.net poll shows 91% support and approve of the Johnson beheading

In a poll taken yesterday on the IslamToday.net website, respondents were asked whether the support and approve of the Johnson beheading.

The results: 91% voted yes, they support and approve of the murder.

Please take into consideration that this is not a scientific poll. A statistician would insist that you take into consideration that the poll was not conducted on a valid random sampling of the population, and is not statistically valid. So please take that into consideration. The people who visit the website most likely are sympathetic to the global jihad effort.

وجريحا في هجوم لمجاهدي

tusaki · Jun 22, 2004, 11:12 am

Where did you find that? on IslamToday.net I cannot find it. The poll there seems to be about uday or whatever the name of the son of saddam is.

tusaki · Jun 22, 2004, 11:24 am

Actually, when I translate the poll, it says:
"The coupled Abdul Aziz's death was distant -the leader of the rule organization in the gulf-; Do you expect the end of the acts of violence in the Saoudi?"

(translate arab to english: http://www.cimos.com/index.asp?src=try)

Ralph38449 · Jun 22, 2004, 04:39 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...e_mi_ea/iraq_41

Jun 20, 2004, 10:30 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/...tage/index.html these guys seem to think that beheading civilian contractors is going to persuade countries to withdraw from iraq. imo, it's going to have the opposite effect or none at all. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jun 20, 2004, 11:20 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	well.. these 3,000 troops are a recent addition. obviously, they're there because of the situation with north korea, rather than iraq. given that reality, i don't think this hostage's fate will bear much significance. damn straight that they aren't too smart.. acts like these won't help their cause in the slightest. besides our involvement, acts like these will promote a new iraqi strongman - who's most likely going to be rule as a secular authoritarian. these acts might actually help our position over there with the iraqi people.. especially if they're increasingly worried about their security, and lack confidence in iraqi authorities. i remember seeing an iraqi interviewed after the latest suicide bombing where he was pleading that the government institute martial law. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jun 21, 2004, 05:22 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
5010 mostly harmless Location: USA Posts: 1,284	I think SK should respond with this answer "We are sending 3000 troops. How angry do you want them to be when they arrive?" - solo (my site)

Jun 21, 2004, 05:50 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	That won't help, what can angry soldiers do there?. The alliance is bound by other moral laws than the ones they are fighting. The terrorists don't have any morals or conscience. They will use every sick tactic to kill as many westerners as possible. It's pretty damn hard to fight something when they are invisible... it could be you walk past a group of men, who smile and wave, and after you've turned your back, they lob a grenade at you. Or even you give a ball to a kid, who smiles, walks to his mother, gets his AK47 and starts shooting at you. Exaggerated perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. Hope & Dream

Jun 21, 2004, 06:55 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Ralph38449 Molten Ash Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 101	bishop, I hope you are right. tusaki, wow, a little harsh aren't we. It is just old tactics, like the Americans used against the British in our fight for what we saw as right. You fight from spots where you can't be seen or shot. Classic strategy, it doesn't make it right, but MOST is fair in love and war. Also I thought SK was going to cut all ties with us??? Religion shows the weakness of man; when there was no one for man to blame; he created God. He made him to blame him for the way things are.

Jun 21, 2004, 10:28 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
sixmillman Igneous Magma Posts: 304	I feel so bad for this guy. These are sick bastards we are fighting. I'm trying to think what is more humiliating, having a pair of panties on my head, or being made to plead for my life on world wide television. Sick Sick Bastards <span style='color:red'>For several reasons: the first being a lack of coordination (just look at the decline of the FSP) Liberty Landing</span> "<span style='color:blue'>The reason we can't find a relationship between the Constitution and the government is that there is none."-- Michael Badnarik</span>

Jun 21, 2004, 11:49 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Johnny Rebel Sedimentary Rock Posts: 5	More desperation tactics by ignorant towel heads fighting for an ever dwendling cause. This is a sign of not only their ignorance but their desperation. At first they fought our soldiers out in the open, then they realized that a camel jockey is only good cannon fodder when he has a bomb on his back, so they started guerilla warefare activities which turned out only to be an annoyance, and that the desert ain't the jungle and that they knew were no vietcong. So they started this car bombing business, that didn't last long, so now they've resorted to this kind of child molestor mentality. I'll give it to them though, they'll resort to slashing the tires of hummers for Allah Baba before they quit.

Jun 22, 2004, 12:50 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	"More desperation tactics by ignorant towel heads fighting for an ever dwendling cause." They're fighting the only way that's available to them. Americans that can't seem to understand that make me wonder what kind of fight they would put up if this country were to be invaded. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jun 22, 2004, 01:08 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	Someone said, "We are sending 3000 troops, how angry do you want them to be when they arrive?" That's the point. You people keep saying terrorists aren't smart. They want the South Koreans to be mad, they want the Koreans to commit reprisals, they want the Koreans to alienate the people of Iraq, removing support for the occupation. That is why we didn't level Fallujah when they strung up those bodies underneath the bridge. Because the American commanders saw it for what it was: bait. Zeebadee, what's with the hate? Of course terrorism is war on a shoestring, I don't understand how that justifies it. I also kinda resent the comparison between an American militia and the terrorists in Iraq. You make it sound as if they had popular support. You probably think they do. I love our media. The prison scandal is going on several months of coverage now, despite that it hasn't changed any. Last December, Iraqis organized protests, not against America, but against the insurgents. I didn't see ONE BIT OF COVERAGE on the news channels. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Jun 22, 2004, 01:58 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	Hate?? What hate? I'm just noting that the people fighting us in Iraq are going to be extremely difficult to defeat. We can beat them down into submission, but only as long as we watch them 24 hours a day. They will be our friends, work for us, support us seemingly without question until we turn our back. As soon as they get a chance though, they'll stab us in the back without even a twinge of conscience. If the U.S. were to be similarly invaded, I would be doing exactly the same thing. And they certainly do have at least some popular support, or they couldn't mount these types of attacks. Justification? They see it as protecting their country. Try to put yourself in their place. Surprisingly, to a lot of Americans, there's a large part of the world that doesn't think we have the best country, economic system, or political structure. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jun 22, 2004, 02:04 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	Who is this "they" you are talking about? It isn't the vast majority of the Iraqi population. You keep portraying the American occupation as some sort of conquest mission, that Iraqis are opposed to the instatement of democracy and that they want Saddam back because he was their "sovereign leader." About people thinking that we don't have the best system, sure, of course. These people are called socialists, communists, fascists, islamic fundamentalists, theocrats... America is the longest lasting government currently alive today. A lot of people point to Britain, but government in Britain at the time of the Constitutional Convention is a lot different than it is today (it was still dominated by the royal family), while, even after the Civil War, our system is still very recognizable as incredibly similar to the point of being the same. I think that constitutes evidence that our system DOES work well. Unless European Socialism is a better idea? Look how well THAT is turning out for Europe. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Jun 22, 2004, 02:32 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	"You keep portraying the American occupation as some sort of conquest mission, that Iraqis are opposed to the instatement of democracy and that they want Saddam back because he was their "sovereign leader." Now you know I never said any such thing! I referred to "the people fighting us", didn't I? Nothing about them being a majority, and certainly nothing about their political beliefs or about them wanting saddam back. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? And the nature of the conflict is such that those opposing us could never survive if there wasn't at least some segment of the population supporting them. They attack us, then hide in the crowd, right out in the open. To a lot of Iraqi's, the war was over when saddam was removed from power. They'd like nothing better than for us to get out and leave them alone. "America is the longest lasting government currently alive today" So what? If this form of government is so good, why doesn't everyone adopt it? Or are you saying that everyone else in the world are " socialists, communists, fascists, islamic fundamentalists, theocrats..." "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jun 22, 2004, 10:02 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Ralph38449 Molten Ash Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 101	Comrade Sorry about the America militia thing but it was a comparison of unorganized taking every advantage against organized, and law abiding, soldiers. They must have popularity from somewhere if they get all the funding I ASSUME they get. Our gov. may be fundamentally the same, yet it took time, it took the will to make it, we had to feel it out, we are still fixing flaws and trying to update all of it. What works for one may not work for another. You hold more dearly what you dream and fight for. All things come to an end. Yet to contradict that I say, all things come to an end, except the fight for freedom, we will prevail. Religion shows the weakness of man; when there was no one for man to blame; he created God. He made him to blame him for the way things are.

Jun 22, 2004, 11:05 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
sixmillman Igneous Magma Posts: 304	22 June 2004 - IslamToday.net poll shows 91% support and approve of the Johnson beheading In a poll taken yesterday on the IslamToday.net website, respondents were asked whether the support and approve of the Johnson beheading. The results: 91% voted yes, they support and approve of the murder. Please take into consideration that this is not a scientific poll. A statistician would insist that you take into consideration that the poll was not conducted on a valid random sampling of the population, and is not statistically valid. So please take that into consideration. The people who visit the website most likely are sympathetic to the global jihad effort. وجريحا في هجوم لمجاهدي <span style='color:red'>For several reasons: the first being a lack of coordination (just look at the decline of the FSP) Liberty Landing</span> "<span style='color:blue'>The reason we can't find a relationship between the Constitution and the government is that there is none."-- Michael Badnarik</span>

Jun 22, 2004, 11:12 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	Where did you find that? on IslamToday.net I cannot find it. The poll there seems to be about uday or whatever the name of the son of saddam is. Hope & Dream

Jun 22, 2004, 11:24 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	Actually, when I translate the poll, it says: "The coupled Abdul Aziz's death was distant -the leader of the rule organization in the gulf-; Do you expect the end of the acts of violence in the Saoudi?" (translate arab to english: http://www.cimos.com/index.asp?src=try) Hope & Dream

Jun 22, 2004, 04:39 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Ralph38449 Molten Ash Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 101	http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...e_mi_ea/iraq_41 Religion shows the weakness of man; when there was no one for man to blame; he created God. He made him to blame him for the way things are.