Worst President

I just read the thread title, I guess.

[Osborn F Enready]

FDR, hands DOWN, in my opinion. The biggest problem America ever faced was the "strong executive branch" he practically created. It still is the problem today, just nobody seems to be able to see through the smokescreen generator long enough to notice.

Originally posted by bishop, if states had a right to secede, then lincoln had a right to defend the union.

These two statements do not mesh.

Anyway, are we a Union or an Empire? A State can leave a Union, Empires hold on to their territories with an iron grip. Incidentally, many states signed the Constitution with the understanding that they could leave the Union if they saw fit. Do States subjugate themselves to the federal government or are they conquered territories, unable to decide their own destiny? Are States a part of the US because of the consent of that state's citizens, or is it because Washington won't let them go?

One set of answers is freedom. The other set is tyranny.

[Osborn F Enready]

TOPIC TOPIC TOPIC, lets stay there. 20th century.

[dotcoma]

if states had a right to secede, then lincoln had a right to defend the union

So, how was he "defending" by marching in to the South and murdering families and destroying it's economic infrastructure?

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, TOPIC TOPIC TOPIC, lets stay there. 20th century.

Maybe a mod could split 'er up. I think this is going to run a while...

[bishop]

So, how was he "defending" by marching in to the South and murdering families and destroying it's economic infrastructure?

heh, like the south didn't commit its own atrocities - and like the south had an economic infrastructure. the south was a slave-owning farmland.

[sixmillman]

The whole article

" that electing John Kerry to the White House will not restore the antebellum world. Things have gone too far for that. The Third World in general and the Islamic World in particular have burst their bounds; they can no longer be herded into the decrepit and threadbare tent of the United Nations; the Kyoto climate agreement; the International Criminal Court or any of Potemkin treaties woven by the European Union. Islamic fundamentalists are openly attacking Russia; besetting India; seizing British naval vessels; threatening to interdict the Straits of Malacca; menacing the House of Saud; renewing hostilities in Kosovo; bombing trains in Spain; raging through the Sudan and building nuclear enrichment plants. No Clintonian ceremony in the Rose Garden can replace the planets in their old orbits. All John Kerry can do if he must pay the price of restoring the Liberal dream is to withdraw, like Prince Prospero, into the artificial gaieties of last Bal Masque while the Red Death stalks without. The Wall Street Journal described a world exactly like that:

"...a world with no hegemon at all may be the real alternative to it. This could turn out to mean a new Dark Age of waning empires and religious fanaticism; of endemic rapine in the world's no-go zones; of economic stagnation and a retreat by civilization into a few fortified enclaves."

[gr8fuldaniel]

G.W.Bush...Hands down, for undoing all that is great and good about America. Bush may be charged with High Treason soon. Bush has reinstated slavery in the form of forcing soldiers to fight after their contract is fulfilled. Tyranny at every turn. The Patriot act erases democracy. Fascism budding in the form of rigged elections and Imperialist conquering of sovereign states. Orwellian throttling of peaceful protest. Torture and murder of innocent civilians. Complicity and conspiracy in the acts of 911(both in prior knowledge and in ordering a stand down to NORAD), along with the white wash, road blocks and rigging of the PARTISAN 911 commission. Arrogant dismissal of International Human Rights, the Geneva Convention, The Bill of Rights, Congress(misappropriation of funds),Have you seen his resume on Buzzflash? Why am I the only one here that thinks there is something horribly wrong about preemptive war. Did any other President start a war that was not either in self defense of ourselves or our allies? Besides Grenada. I am not willing to just overlook the recent American coup in Haiti, either. Not my President Bush is making us the bad guys. I want to be the good guys. We could get nuked if we dont turn things around. I say, throw the bastard in prison for war crimes. He should not be eligable for election with all of his federal offences

[Osborn F Enready]

Gr8fulDaniel said: Why am I the only one here that thinks there is something horribly wrong about preemptive war?


I say: Trust me, you aren't alone!

[dotcoma]

heh, like the south didn't commit its own atrocities - and like the south had an economic infrastructure. the south was a slave-owning farmland.

Heh, never said it was full of saints. And it did have vast economic infrastructure. Go read a credible history book not written by a foundation funded with Rockefeller money. Most people living in the South DID NOT own slaves. And the people in the South didn't invade the North in order to force it's central banking system on the masses, so, you are really comparing apples and oranges.

[PatrickHenry]

This is not "pre-emptive war", which is a truly anticipatory strike. This is labeled a "preventive" war, on the off chance that some uppity nation might someday threaten the US. And it's the wave of the NEOcon future.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, This is not "pre-emptive war", which is a truly anticipatory strike. This is labeled a "preventive" war, on the off chance that some uppity nation might someday threaten the US. And it's the wave of the NEOcon future.

Thats even scarier. Paranoia can justify and enjoy the masacre of all neighbors! :(

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, This is not "pre-emptive war", which is a truly anticipatory strike. This is labeled a "preventive" war, on the off chance that some uppity nation might someday threaten the US. And it's the wave of the NEOcon future.

Funny, the whole leftist anti US camp concept that the US knew the attacks were coming when they didnt but should have dont something before it happened is completely awash in that one statement. I love how the anti US camp likes to spin the argument back and forth when it suits them.

[bishop]

news flash truth - not everyone who was against the war was/is a leftist!

i like the allegation that they're anti-US though.. nice slander.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Truth,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Truth,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-PatrickHenry, This is not "pre-emptive war", which is a truly anticipatory strike. This is labeled a "preventive" war, on the off chance that some uppity nation might someday threaten the US. And it's the wave of the NEOcon future.

Funny, the whole leftist anti US camp concept that the US knew the attacks were coming when they didnt but should have dont something before it happened is completely awash in that one statement. I love how the anti US camp likes to spin the argument back and forth when it suits them.[/b][/quote]

The preemptive war we are referring to is the American strike against Iraq. I think you are referring to 911. Our war on Iraq is illegal because they did not attack us (It was not sanctioned by the UN). Neither did Afghanistan. I am not anti-American, but Bush is, obviously. Look at how many Americans he has killed with his rogue attitude.
Why are you so sure BushCorp didnt orchestrate 911? I am not, but I am not going to assume BushCorp would never kill for profit--even 3000 Americans for huge profits. The folks who planted him in office expect something in return. Like no-bid Contracts. MAMMOTH No-Bid Contracts. I dont want to believe these things are probable, but I have to accept that they are possible.

[Osborn F Enready]

Don't forget about LILO leasing, two sets of tax books for business, one for citizens.

[gr8fuldaniel]

OOOOPs.....My Bad, I just realized Dumbya wasnt president in the 20th Century...sorry guys forget everything I....
===backs calmly out side door====

[Paavo]

the anti US camp

How black-and-white can one get?

[dotcoma]

Dude, Paavo, were you not listening? You are either with Bush, or you're with Al Qaeda...