Italy Probe Unearths Huge Iraq Arms Deal

[Gods_Mercenary]

And the easiest source of information at hand, how many reference books are gonna have that story about Bush?

[Dieval]

I am just trying to teach you how to learn something for yourself. Why is that ignorant people always think all knowledge is on the Internet? The Internet is 90% lies, propaganda, opinions, and pornagraphy.

....so maybe you could post a link from the 10% that isn't a lie?

You've only claimed that the Bush's are Fascist Criminals, yet posted nothing to back this up, besides what you've read. I've looked into the Nazi-Bush connection on the WWW previously and it's amazing that you only find it on anti-Bush/conspiracy theory websites....so unless you've got something substantial to post, maybe we should get back to the debate at hand...

[christibe]

And the easiest source of information at hand, how many reference books are gonna have that story about Bush?

Right! And how many people are going to go to the library and read the book that was sourced? That is the great thing about the internet. And yes, billybobama, people should ideally always seek to gain knowledge. However, in this specific instance you provided a claim but no evidence that it is supportable. So either it is an appeal to emotion, or it is a valid claim that you are unable to support for an unknown reason.

I, and Merc, agree that the family has connections to some facist people in the past, and so this is not necessary, really though it would be advisable, to source. But the claim that they still have connections to facism, and are now facist, needs to supported.

I started a thread on this general topic a little bit ago, and Praxius started a thread about this topic specifically. http://www.volconvo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17578 in reference to ShoutWire - BBC: Bush's Grandfather Planned Fascist Coup in America

[billybobama]

Right! And how many people are going to go to the library and read the book that was sourced? That is the great thing about the internet. And yes, billybobama, people should ideally always seek to gain knowledge. However, in this specific instance you provided a claim but no evidence that it is supportable. So either it is an appeal to emotion, or it is a valid claim that you are unable to support for an unknown reason.

I, and Merc, agree that the family has connections to some facist people in the past, and so this is not necessary, really though it would be advisable, to source. But the claim that they still have connections to facism, and are now facist, needs to supported.

I started a thread on this general topic a little bit ago, and Praxius started a thread about this topic specifically. http://www.volconvo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17578 in reference to ShoutWire - BBC: Bush's Grandfather Planned Fascist Coup in America

Yes Presscott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, sound familiar, were both Fascists. Just like I have already posted. Who is George Bush's sister married to? Who did George Bush put in charge of the National Oil Reserves? Who is Eric Koch?

[billybobama]

And the easiest source of information at hand, how many reference books are gonna have that story about Bush?

It is like being a private eye. When you research in one place you see something that leads you to other things to research. The Iron Triangle by Dan Briody is very good. Also do some research on the Liberty League.

[Praxius]

I have been studying the Fascist Bush Crime Family for years. If more people got off their butts and researched anything the world would be a much better place.

And brownie points goto the guy who did some reading...... He is quite the above.... however, this article does not have any information that relates to this original topic.... which was just lieing.....

Now instead of debating the obvious, why not debate the method behind the maddness..... AKA: if the above is true..... and he is a liar.... why would he lie about such a thing?

Those who question this should be able to recieve a logical explination, shant we?

[Praxius]

What the duce?

your original link does not supply the news article.... at least what I can see.

[christibe]

Yes Presscott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, sound familiar, were both Fascists. Just like I have already posted. Who is George Bush's sister married to? Who did George Bush put in charge of the National Oil Reserves? Who is Eric Koch?

i know, i just made that claim appropriate by providing one source of information, since i agree with your claim and wanted to be able to be considered rationally. And, (let's pretend) I don't know- you should tell me about those things since you brought them up.

But, I do know about Statement of Principles
I know that this statement was written in 1997 by several of today's key political players. I know that TPFaNAC knew in 1997 that their goal was to get real power in DC for one reason of starting a war in Iraq. And, since I know that some people may not wish to clixk on the link, I will provide the signatories of the Statement of Principles here
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

The statement itself reads as follows:

June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

i'll post more later here.

[billybobama]

i know, i just made that claim appropriate by providing one source of information, since i agree with your claim and wanted to be able to be considered rationally. And, (let's pretend) I don't know- you should tell me about those things since you brought them up.

But, I do know about Statement of Principles
I know that this statement was written in 1997 by several of today's key political players. I know that TPFaNAC knew in 1997 that their goal was to get real power in DC for one reason of starting a war in Iraq. And, since I know that some people may not wish to clixk on the link, I will provide the signatories of the Statement of Principles here
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

The statement itself reads as follows:


i'll post more later here.

The more I research the more I am led to the position that turning The U.S.A. into a Military Fascist One Party State really got traction during the Reagan Administration. I also think the Fascist Bush Crime Family is involved in this New World Order. A world that is run with a Fascist Philosophy. Other promenant Fascist Families, The Bin Laden's and the Saud's. I will give you the answer to my Riddle. Who is in charge of The National Oil Reserves, appointed by George Bush? Two brothers named Koch. (pronounced coke) What is George Bush's siter's married name? Koch. Who was Eric Koch? He was one of Hitler's right hand men, his specialty was murdering Jews.

[Dieval]

i know, i just made that claim appropriate by providing one source of information, since i agree with your claim and wanted to be able to be considered rationally. And, (let's pretend) I don't know- you should tell me about those things since you brought them up.

But, I do know about Statement of Principles
I know that this statement was written in 1997 by several of today's key political players. I know that TPFaNAC knew in 1997 that their goal was to get real power in DC for one reason of starting a war in Iraq. And, since I know that some people may not wish to clixk on the link, I will provide the signatories of the Statement of Principles here
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

The statement itself reads as follows:


i'll post more later here.

Such evil people!! The hate speech just pours out of their mouths! I hate when people try to spread American values and make America a stronger, more secure, and better place to live! These traitors should all be boiled in oil! :rolleyes:

[christibe]

Such evil people!! The hate speech just pours out of their mouths! I hate when people try to spread American values and make America a stronger, more secure, and better place to live! These traitors should all be boiled in oil! :rolleyes:

When did I say the people were evil?


I posted this to illuminate that the group of people who have power in our federal govt today were already looking at military venture in Iraq as early as 1997.

The issue for me is that it was never mentioned in the Executive branch's case for war proposed to the Congress.

This is an issue because not all of the facts were given to Congress, but instead, a false scenario rooted in fear because our nation suffered a grave terrorist attack was instead given to Congress.

That at least is grounds for an investigation. Do you disagree with investigation, Dieval? My thoughts: I do not think you disagree with investigation. Instead, I believe that you may be a rational person. I also believe that you let your emotions rule you when it comes to politics, and that this means if someone disagrees with your statement that they are disagreeing with you personally. That isn't the matter at hand.

[billybobama]

When did I say the people were evil?


I posted this to illuminate that the group of people who have power in our federal govt today were already looking at military venture in Iraq as early as 1997.

The issue for me is that it was never mentioned in the Executive branch's case for war proposed to the Congress.

This is an issue because not all of the facts were given to Congress, but instead, a false scenario rooted in fear because our nation suffered a grave terrorist attack was instead given to Congress.

That at least is grounds for an investigation. Do you disagree with investigation, Dieval? My thoughts: I do not think you disagree with investigation. Instead, I believe that you may be a rational person. I also believe that you let your emotions rule you when it comes to politics, and that this means if someone disagrees with your statement that they are disagreeing with you personally. That isn't the matter at hand.

Christieb - Do not apologise. Those people you listed are very EVIL. In my opinion they should all be put up against a wall and shot.