Voluntary tax: How much would you pay?

[sdbest]

If forced taxation is unconstitutional, as some have argued, how much--or what percentage of your income--would you pay voluntarily for services provided by the government?

If you don't want to pay any taxes, you don't have to. It's all voluntary.

It's not a perfect survey because of the non-random sample, but the response from Volconvites might give us some idea of what government revenues would be in a voluntary tax environment.

If the Libertarians want to qualify the sentiment of this post, qualify away.

Regards
S.

[Kamehameha34]

Did you honestly think I meant donation?

When you import liquor, you pay duties on it. When you buy cigarettes or booze, you pay a sin tax embedded in the price that you pay voluntarily.

That is what a voluntary tax is. Why would I even refer to it as a tax if it isn't based on any marketable goods?

[sdbest]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Did you honestly think I meant donation? When you import liquor, you pay duties on it. When you buy cigarettes or booze, you pay a sin tax embedded in the price that you pay voluntarily. That is what a voluntary tax is. Why would I even refer to it as a tax if it isn't based on any marketable goods?

Clearly, you weren't clear. What taxes would you suggest? A 17.5%-21% consumption tax like that in some EU countries?

Rather than kvetching, add something useful.

Regards
S.

[Kamehameha34]

Clearly, you weren't clear.

I was perfectly clear. You just needed to review the meaning of the word "tax".

A 17.5%-21% consumption tax like that in some EU countries?

Reasonable; up to 15% or so; on anything besides all forms of media, firearms, and all goods and services related to the carrying out of essential individual rights.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Reasonable; up to 15% or so; on anything besides all forms of media, firearms, and all goods and services related to the carrying out of essential individual rights.

Rather than me misunderstanding your always perfectly clear logical points, perhaps you could provide some examples of "goods and services related to the carrying out of essential individual rights." I must be wrong but I would assume that most goods and services are used to exercise rights-liberty? pursuit of happiness?, etc. And, I have no idea what an "essential individual right" might be. What is an unessential individual right? Can you name an unessential individual right? For taxation purpose, we can't be vague. I'm sure you'd agree.

I wonder would agree to a 15% tax on the purchase of stock in companies? Would agree to a 15% tax on a loan? Would you agree that person should pay a 15% tax on any gifts they receive?

Regards
S.

[Kamehameha34]

Rather than me misunderstanding your always perfectly clear logical points..

A case of which I am about to demonstrate.

perhaps you could provide some examples of "goods and services related to the carrying out of essential individual rights."

all forms of media, firearms..

Essential rights = Bill of rights.

I wonder would agree to a 15% tax on the purchase of stock in companies? Would agree to a 15% tax on a loan?

Those items which are taxed would obviously be determined by those of whom I elect. If I'm not happy with their decision, I can always choose not to purchase the product which is taxed. If enough citizens withhold their business, then the tax would be lowered to reciprocate.

That's the beauty of a system based on choice.

Would you agree that person should pay a 15% tax on any gifts they receive?

Fifteen percent of the price of a gift is zero, so I don't know what you're getting at here.

[ibm]

Quote by: sdbest If forced taxation is unconstitutional, as some have argued, how much--or what percentage of your income--would you pay voluntarily for services provided by the government? If you don't want to pay any taxes, you don't have to. It's all voluntary. ...

I don't know how much I'm willing to pay voluntarily. I don't even think about it, as all my taxes are mandatory. That makes your question kinda meaningless.

I suppose in Canada things are little different. In my state, say a family makes $200,000 for a year. In all likelihood, the household would have to pay taxes roughly in the following manner -

~ 22% goes to the FIT. That is about $44,000.

Assume the family spent $50,000 on consumer goods, there goes another $3,000 - 4,000 in sales tax (depending on if your county and/or city has an added %).

Among the consumer goods above, say alcohol, tobacco and gasoline were $5,000, that's another ~$2,500 in various forms of taxes embedded in the price.

If the family's house has an assessed value of $400,000, they'd owe the county, ISD, etc. property taxes for ~$10,000.

I'm sure I haven't accounted for all the taxes, but I know this is a close enough picture. Just to sum the above together, it's roughly $60,000 or 30% of the family's income.

Is 30% too high, too low, or just about right? I'm sure everyone could have different answers.

[Mia]

In the US a person would pay about 40% in Federal taxes, Social Security, etc. That's before any property taxes, sales taxes, automobile taxes, licenses,,,,,,I think we're getting robbed :-(. We don't even get health care out of that.

Oh yeah, defense, We get that. And seem to share it with other nations. Again, robbed.

[freefallife]

Well, if you don't like it, you can always choose to live somewhere else.

[Osborn F Enready]

freefalllife said: Well, if you don't like it, you can always choose to live somewhere else.

Or we could just pick up arms and take back from you nanny-staters who blindly support the fed and state with taxation without question, completely ignorant of your rights.

[freefallife]

I'm well aware of my rights, thanks. I just choose to agree with the taxes I pay the federal government. It actually makes even less sence for me to pay the government because I'm a government employee. But there are tax laws, put into place by our elected officals chosen to represent us. You don't like the taxes...fine. Change them. fight for tax reform just like you say you are. Doesn't work? Move out. I'm slightly resentful of people that constantly complain about this country and yet freely choose to live here. Maybe you should try Iraq...I hear its nice in the summer

[shawmutt]

Quote by: freefallife Well, if you don't like it, you can always choose to live somewhere else.

Or we can exact our rights as citizens and attempt to change the system.

[freefallife]

Quote by: shawmutt Or we can exact our rights as citizens and attempt to change the system.

Yeah...I just said that

[shawmutt]

Quote by: freefallife Yeah...I just said that

Yes, but not before you uttered the contemptible jingoistic "love it or leave it" tripe.

[ibm]

Quote by: Mia In the US a person would pay about 40% in Federal taxes, Social Security, etc. That's before any property taxes, sales taxes, automobile taxes, licenses,,,,,,I think we're getting robbed :-(. We don't even get health care out of that. Oh yeah, defense, We get that. And seem to share it with other nations. Again, robbed.

Where you get that 40%? SS tax is about 7.5% for emloyee's portion. You're supposed to benefit from it (at least in theory) when you retire. That's why I didn't include it in my first post. And my state doesn't have state income tax.

But you're right. For all the taxes we pay, for most of us we don't even get healthcare out of it (unlike our northern neighbor).

[ibm]

"Like it or leave it" imo is a impractical and immature mentality, even though there has been an increasing number of Americans moved overseas in recent years for various reasons.

On the other hand, a revolt takes a lot to happen. It's just human nature. For most Americans, unless you're forced into a corner where you feel things can't get any worse, a revolt is unlikely to happen.

[Mia]

Quote by: freefallife Well, if you don't like it, you can always choose to live somewhere else.

Oh PLEASE don't trot out that trite line. Goddammit, we're supposed to have representation with our taxation, we had a big tea party over it. And I am OBLIGATED to criticize my government.

Read the freaking constitution before you say stupid things like that.

[Mia]

Quote by: ibm Where you get that 40%? SS tax is about 7.5% for emloyee's portion. You're supposed to benefit from it (at least in theory) when you retire. That's why I didn't include it in my first post. And my state doesn't have state income tax. But you're right. For all the taxes we pay, for most of us we don't even get healthcare out of it (unlike our northern neighbor).

Based on an income of 200,000 (the example used for Canada), Federal, SS and whatever else is automatic in the paycheck would come to about 40%. It came to about 30% when I made 50-60K. TX doesn't have income tax either, so it would be more, I think, for states that do.

[another day]

Americans, don't forget that your federal income tax is completely illegal and is not written in a book of law anywhere. It is 100% fraudulent...compared to other taxes that you pay, the federal income tax is literally theft.

[Netopalis]

I would recommend a 10 % flat tax. This is low enough to support a minimalist government and not to be an undue hardship on anyone. I believe that some tax is a necessary evil for the maintainence of the army, police and roads, but beyond that, I feel that most governmental programs are spurious.