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Waychel · Oct 20, 2003, 01:19 am

Ah here we go.

No wonder I've never heard of the guy - he's the governor of Vermont. =PpP

He sounds rather impressive from the accomplishments listed on that website. I'd have to check him out in a debate or something first before I developed any real opinion, though.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 20, 2003, 01:20 am

Where have you been for the past four months?

Waychel · Oct 20, 2003, 01:23 am

Can you rub it in anymore? -___________- :ASDFKk;K:ASDF

I haven't been very impressed with many of the candidates so I haven't been paying attention much at all. I've always been a last-minute girl anyways, though. =PpP Too many people end up dropping out.

The Devil · Oct 20, 2003, 01:28 am

Bush is going to win it no matter what... remember the Florida scandal? I think we all remember those tactics. I wouldn't be surprised if more of that sort of thing happens this time, but less publicized.

Impenitent · Oct 20, 2003, 01:40 am

AK, the numbers come from the site you posted... look at the number of payroll employees in sept 2003... +57,000 new jobs created... look at productivity as of the second quarter 2003... +6.8% GROWTH...

you've got to look at more than the bad news the democrats feed you... learn the truth

RebelWithanAK · Oct 20, 2003, 11:31 am

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

"The number of unemployed persons, 9.0 million, was about unchanged in
September, and the unemployment rate was 6.1 percent, the same as in August."

in a query on nonfarm payrolls:

People employed part or full time, Sept 2000: 132,129,000
People employed part or full time, Sept 2003: 129,862,000

Sept 2003 is up 57,000 from August 2003, but down 40,000 from June 2003, 100,000 from May 2003, and a little more than 200,000 from April 2003. One month of rises does not an economic recovery make, and you've still far to dig yourself out even to reach January of this year. That, and you're forgetting that these 50,000 haven't affected the unemployment rate, which means we've lost an appreciable number of farm employees.

Now, as for productivity:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod2.nr0.htm

Productivity is up but Labor Costs are down. I wonder why? Could it be because they're PAYING FEWER WORKERS TO DO MORE WORK?!

Tell me, do you actually research the numbers you throw out, or do you just like to repeat whatever's been told you?

castille · Oct 20, 2003, 12:03 pm

Speaking of which, the economy SHOULD be growing again over in America. I don't follow American economics much, but from what I've seen, I have to agree - Bush is doing ok for somebody with such a bad accent!

Australia is the opposite, we're starting to decline, have been doing so for a while. Perfect time for business opportunity!

Also, I have this thing about reading newspapers for economic data. "By the time some reporter tells you theres economic decline, the decline is already over!"

RebelWithanAK · Oct 20, 2003, 12:07 pm

So, other than the fact that you're ill-informed, what were you trying to tell us?

Impenitent · Oct 20, 2003, 05:23 pm

"was about unchanged in September" ... was ABOUT UNCHANGED? no, 57,000 NEW JOBS WERE CREATED... that is good news for bush so they have to report it differently to make bush look bad... if you looked you would see that...

"Sept 2003 is up 57,000 from August 2003"

that is what I was claiming... it is on the rise... have we suddenly covered all the previous losses? no, and I never said we did only that we did create new jobs and are creating more... the economy is bouncing back and by election time next year millions of jobs are projected to be created...

"One month of rises does not an economic recovery make" no, but 2 consecutive quarters of growth does. last month was the FIRST of the new cycle of growth...

"Productivity is up but Labor Costs are down. I wonder why? "
because employment is always a LAGGING INDICATOR... you aren't hiring people if you aren't making a profit, that is how business works... they make a profit and then they hire to grow even more... when they hire, labor costs go up but so do the company's profits...

tell me, do you actually think about the economic lies that you spew on behalf of your political ideology or can you actually think for yourself?

RebelWithanAK · Oct 20, 2003, 05:37 pm

Impenitent, if you learned anything from taking statistics (you took statistics, right?) you know that you can't make an accurate prediction based on two numbers! You've had ONE month of growth. Last month heralded a decline. The month before that heralded a decline. You've had steady declines for three years! You'll have to find an average of 35,000 new jobs a week just to break even for the year! What motherfucking school of finance did YOU flunk out from?!

Impenitent · Oct 20, 2003, 06:14 pm

we had 2 quarters of growth...

we had 57,000 new jobs created last month...

all that was hearlded was gloom and doom about the lack of new jobs created... if it was clinton it would have been called new job creation and growth but since it is bush it is focus on the bad... the whole point was to see the whole picture not just the myopic view from the left...

statistics? ha! statistically speaking 100% of people who eat apples are dead... (they ate them in the year 1790) please, tell me about statistics... all you are doing is continuing the doom and gloom...

fedfem · Oct 20, 2003, 06:49 pm

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
we had 2 quarters of growth...

we had 57,000 new jobs created last month...

all that was hearlded was gloom and doom about the lack of new jobs created... if it was clinton it would have been called new job creation and growth but since it is bush it is focus on the bad... the whole point was to see the whole picture not just the myopic view from the left...

statistics? ha! statistically speaking 100% of people who eat apples are dead... (they ate them in the year 1790) please, tell me about statistics... all you are doing is continuing the doom and gloom...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Guess how many layoffs though?

MASS LAYOFFS IN AUGUST 2003

Employers initiated 1,258 mass layoff actions in August 2003, as
measured by new filings for unemployment insurance benefits during the
month, according to data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of
Labor Statistics. Each action involved at least 50 persons from a single
establishment, and the number of workers involved totaled 133,839. (See
table 1.) Compared with August 2002, both the number of layoff events and
the number of initial claims increased, marking the first over-the-year
increase in mass-layoff initial claims since May 2002.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/Histor...s.09252003.news

fedfem · Oct 20, 2003, 07:17 pm

and see what industry the majority of new jobs were created in--Temp positions!

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/jec.txt

Impenitent · Oct 20, 2003, 09:10 pm

ff? follow away like a good sheep...

**Sean** · Oct 20, 2003, 09:27 pm

Impenitent, your employment optimism reminds me of the classical view of economics (less unemployment=more jobs) read this from the BBC(probably as unbiased as it gets) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3117145.stm

RebelWithanAK · Oct 20, 2003, 10:55 pm

Impenitent - let's play a game. I'll give you 6 numbers. You tell me how many times there's an increase between any two:

12, 9, 8, 5, 3, 6.

Here's a hint: there's only one.

Impenitent · Oct 21, 2003, 09:23 am

sean, I disagree with your assessment of the BBC, that being said, the article tried to change the definition of the unemployed and the article agreed with me that the american economy is growing and consumer spending is on the rise.

ak, let's play a game, tell me how to draw a triangle with 3 right angles... and to answer your question, there is only one increase between them if you go from left to right, but there is four if you go the other direction... here's a hint: don't think so flatly

**Sean** · Oct 23, 2003, 02:58 am

Well please show me a source you trust with a recent assessment of the economy. From what I've been reading/viewing from various sources, the economy isn't even encouraging temporary employment.

Impenitent · Oct 23, 2003, 09:21 am

Sean, I've told you the source I trust but you've prejudged them as an arm of the republican party... read and watch cavuto's programs on fox... when the economy is picking up as it is, and the "fair" news is spinning and talking down the economy, what does that say about the "fairness?" not to mention truthfulness or accuracy...

RebelWithanAK · Oct 23, 2003, 04:32 pm

You're damned right we won't listen to the bullshit-speak of Rupert Murdoch's Fox News.

Oct 20, 2003, 01:19 am	#21 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Ah here we go. No wonder I've never heard of the guy - he's the governor of Vermont. =PpP He sounds rather impressive from the accomplishments listed on that website. I'd have to check him out in a debate or something first before I developed any real opinion, though. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 20, 2003, 01:20 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Where have you been for the past four months? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 20, 2003, 01:23 am	#23 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Can you rub it in anymore? -___________- :ASDFKk;K:ASDF I haven't been very impressed with many of the candidates so I haven't been paying attention much at all. I've always been a last-minute girl anyways, though. =PpP Too many people end up dropping out. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 20, 2003, 01:40 am	#25 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	AK, the numbers come from the site you posted... look at the number of payroll employees in sept 2003... +57,000 new jobs created... look at productivity as of the second quarter 2003... +6.8% GROWTH... you've got to look at more than the bad news the democrats feed you... learn the truth "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 20, 2003, 11:31 am	#26 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm "The number of unemployed persons, 9.0 million, was about unchanged in September, and the unemployment rate was 6.1 percent, the same as in August." in a query on nonfarm payrolls: People employed part or full time, Sept 2000: 132,129,000 People employed part or full time, Sept 2003: 129,862,000 Sept 2003 is up 57,000 from August 2003, but down 40,000 from June 2003, 100,000 from May 2003, and a little more than 200,000 from April 2003. One month of rises does not an economic recovery make, and you've still far to dig yourself out even to reach January of this year. That, and you're forgetting that these 50,000 haven't affected the unemployment rate, which means we've lost an appreciable number of farm employees. Now, as for productivity: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod2.nr0.htm Productivity is up but Labor Costs are down. I wonder why? Could it be because they're PAYING FEWER WORKERS TO DO MORE WORK?! Tell me, do you actually research the numbers you throw out, or do you just like to repeat whatever's been told you? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 20, 2003, 01:28 am	#24 (permalink) (top)
The Devil Molten Ash Location: Canada Posts: 55	Bush is going to win it no matter what... remember the Florida scandal? I think we all remember those tactics. I wouldn't be surprised if more of that sort of thing happens this time, but less publicized.

Oct 20, 2003, 12:03 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Speaking of which, the economy SHOULD be growing again over in America. I don't follow American economics much, but from what I've seen, I have to agree - Bush is doing ok for somebody with such a bad accent! Australia is the opposite, we're starting to decline, have been doing so for a while. Perfect time for business opportunity! Also, I have this thing about reading newspapers for economic data. "By the time some reporter tells you theres economic decline, the decline is already over!" Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 20, 2003, 12:07 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	So, other than the fact that you're ill-informed, what were you trying to tell us? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 20, 2003, 05:23 pm	#29 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	"was about unchanged in September" ... was ABOUT UNCHANGED? no, 57,000 NEW JOBS WERE CREATED... that is good news for bush so they have to report it differently to make bush look bad... if you looked you would see that... "Sept 2003 is up 57,000 from August 2003" that is what I was claiming... it is on the rise... have we suddenly covered all the previous losses? no, and I never said we did only that we did create new jobs and are creating more... the economy is bouncing back and by election time next year millions of jobs are projected to be created... "One month of rises does not an economic recovery make" no, but 2 consecutive quarters of growth does. last month was the FIRST of the new cycle of growth... "Productivity is up but Labor Costs are down. I wonder why? " because employment is always a LAGGING INDICATOR... you aren't hiring people if you aren't making a profit, that is how business works... they make a profit and then they hire to grow even more... when they hire, labor costs go up but so do the company's profits... tell me, do you actually think about the economic lies that you spew on behalf of your political ideology or can you actually think for yourself? "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 20, 2003, 05:37 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Impenitent, if you learned anything from taking statistics (you took statistics, right?) you know that you can't make an accurate prediction based on two numbers! You've had ONE month of growth. Last month heralded a decline. The month before that heralded a decline. You've had steady declines for three years! You'll have to find an average of 35,000 new jobs a week just to break even for the year! What motherfucking school of finance did YOU flunk out from?! . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 20, 2003, 06:14 pm	#31 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	we had 2 quarters of growth... we had 57,000 new jobs created last month... all that was hearlded was gloom and doom about the lack of new jobs created... if it was clinton it would have been called new job creation and growth but since it is bush it is focus on the bad... the whole point was to see the whole picture not just the myopic view from the left... statistics? ha! statistically speaking 100% of people who eat apples are dead... (they ate them in the year 1790) please, tell me about statistics... all you are doing is continuing the doom and gloom... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 20, 2003, 06:49 pm	#32 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) we had 2 quarters of growth... we had 57,000 new jobs created last month... all that was hearlded was gloom and doom about the lack of new jobs created... if it was clinton it would have been called new job creation and growth but since it is bush it is focus on the bad... the whole point was to see the whole picture not just the myopic view from the left... statistics? ha! statistically speaking 100% of people who eat apples are dead... (they ate them in the year 1790) please, tell me about statistics... all you are doing is continuing the doom and gloom...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Guess how many layoffs though? MASS LAYOFFS IN AUGUST 2003 Employers initiated 1,258 mass layoff actions in August 2003, as measured by new filings for unemployment insurance benefits during the month, according to data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. Each action involved at least 50 persons from a single establishment, and the number of workers involved totaled 133,839. (See table 1.) Compared with August 2002, both the number of layoff events and the number of initial claims increased, marking the first over-the-year increase in mass-layoff initial claims since May 2002. ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/Histor...s.09252003.news

Oct 20, 2003, 07:17 pm	#33 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	and see what industry the majority of new jobs were created in--Temp positions! ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/jec.txt

Oct 20, 2003, 09:10 pm	#34 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	ff? follow away like a good sheep... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 20, 2003, 09:27 pm	#35 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	Impenitent, your employment optimism reminds me of the classical view of economics (less unemployment=more jobs) read this from the BBC(probably as unbiased as it gets) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3117145.stm So it goes

Oct 20, 2003, 10:55 pm	#36 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Impenitent - let's play a game. I'll give you 6 numbers. You tell me how many times there's an increase between any two: 12, 9, 8, 5, 3, 6. Here's a hint: there's only one. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 21, 2003, 09:23 am	#37 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	sean, I disagree with your assessment of the BBC, that being said, the article tried to change the definition of the unemployed and the article agreed with me that the american economy is growing and consumer spending is on the rise. ak, let's play a game, tell me how to draw a triangle with 3 right angles... and to answer your question, there is only one increase between them if you go from left to right, but there is four if you go the other direction... here's a hint: don't think so flatly "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 23, 2003, 02:58 am	#38 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	Well please show me a source you trust with a recent assessment of the economy. From what I've been reading/viewing from various sources, the economy isn't even encouraging temporary employment. So it goes

Oct 23, 2003, 09:21 am	#39 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	Sean, I've told you the source I trust but you've prejudged them as an arm of the republican party... read and watch cavuto's programs on fox... when the economy is picking up as it is, and the "fair" news is spinning and talking down the economy, what does that say about the "fairness?" not to mention truthfulness or accuracy... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 23, 2003, 04:32 pm	#40 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	You're damned right we won't listen to the bullshit-speak of Rupert Murdoch's Fox News. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.