Noam Chomsky: What If Iran Invaded Mexico?

[Ibn_Sina]

....

What If Iran Invaded Mexico? Unsurprisingly, George W. Bush's announcement of a "surge" in Iraq came despite the firm opposition to any such move of Americans and the even stronger opposition of the (thoroughly irrelevant) Iraqis. It was accompanied by ominous official leaks and statements -- from Washington and Baghdad -- about how Iranian intervention in Iraq was aimed at disrupting our mission to gain victory, an aim which is (by definition) noble. What then followed was a solemn debate about whether serial numbers on advanced roadside bombs (IEDs) were really traceable to Iran; and, if so, to that country's Revolutionary Guards or to some even higher authority. This "debate" is a typical illustration of a primary principle of sophisticated propaganda. In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy. The cruder of the two systems leads, naturally enough, to disbelief; the sophisticated variant gives an impression of openness and freedom, and so far more effectively serves to instill the Party Line. It becomes beyond question, beyond thought itself, like the air we breathe.

Excerpt from this page.

[nilan3000]

Chomsky is unparalled in his ability to see through any cause to its brutal core and truth.

But lately I've been getting the awful feeling that no matter where he looks these days he only sees american conspiracies.

[rmnunez]

I compleely disagree with the substance, posted it only as an exemplar of the typical lefty rant.

[jose]

Zionist Terrorists Arrested Inside Mexican Congress We were alerted this morning by a subscriber from Mexico that two Israelis were arrested Wednesday inside the Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro (Mexican Congress) in Mexico City. Both were armed with 9 mm automatics and one was carrying a military hand grenade, electrical wiring and other bomb related materials. The Israeli Embassy at Sierra Madre 2155, colonia Lomas de Chapultepec has close its doors to the Mexican Press and are refusing to talk. The incident has been independently verified by La Voz de Aztlan through Mexican diplomatic, press and other sources in Mexico City. The Chief of Legislative Security, Salvador Alarcón, has also confirmed the arrest of the two Israeli terrorists. One of them Saur Ben Zvi is a confirmed citizen of Israel and the other, Salvador Guersson, recently immigrated to Mexico from Israel. It is has been determined by the Procuraduría General de la República (Mexican Department of Justice) that Guersson is a retired Colonel of the Israeli Defense Forces and that he may now be operating as a MOSSAD agent. It is not known how they were able to penetrate the extensive security system of the Mexican Legislative Palace. This is a very grave incident with many serious international implications. Many have questioned who may be really behind many of the recent terrorist acts around the world including the ones against the WTC and the Pentagon. The Mexican public and congress has been reticent about declaring war against Islam along with the U.S. It is possible that an act of terrorism against the Mexican Congress was planned in order to "terrorize" Mexico into towing the line against Islam

Zionist Terrorists Arrested Inside Mexican Congress

[rmnunez]

Amazing news, nothing in the media here on this. The source is dubious, but this last bit helps explain:

The Mexican public and congress has been reticent about declaring war against Islam along with the U.S. It is possible that an act of terrorism against the Mexican Congress was planned in order to "terrorize" Mexico into towing the line against Islam

It is possible too that the US isn't in a war against Islam. I'll look into this MOSSAD thing

[Deadeye]

While for a moment it sounds like a good thing to some right wing guys for us to invade Mexico, it would be a very stupid thing to do. First of all we have no reason to do so. Secondly Mexians here would pitch a fit, and thirdly after we had Mexico nothing would be gained.

We should allow Mexicans who have skills to work here. We should allow those who want to become real Americans (that includes learning English) to become citizens. We should also build a barrier to illegal's from charging across the border.

Mexicans aren't bad people. But the politicans who run them on both sides of the border are.

[jose]

México - Presidencia de la República | Foros

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: rmnunez I compleely disagree with the substance

Another example of what people say when they are brainwashed. LOL

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: nilan3000 Chomsky is unparalled in his ability to see through any cause to its brutal core and truth. But lately I've been getting the awful feeling that no matter where he looks these days he only sees american conspiracies.

True... But in most cases, he has been correct.

Despite criticisms, he is considered "the most important intellectual alive".

[sdbest]

Quote by: rmnunez I compleely disagree with the substance, posted it only as an exemplar of the typical lefty rant.

Typical right wing wacko response.

Regards
S.

[rmnunez]

You've got to recognize its true and Chomsky, "no matter where he looks these days only sees (united statian) conspiracies." This is why its easy to dismiss his views. Its always the same rant, just different locations and times.

[Century 25]

Iran wouldn't be so foolhardy. And meccico hardly would notice.. along with the rampant crime & corruption ravaging that republic..

[The Decider]

Quote by: rmnunez Amazing news, nothing in the media here on this. The source is dubious...

rmnunez, you might find clarification in an article posted on the same day in El Universal. I don't read Spanish so I won't bother googling for that source. I've pasted the reference below:

"8. "ZIONIST TERRORISTS" ATTACK MEXICO: NOT!
The Mexico City daily Cronica de Hoy provided fodder for Jew-hating conspiracy theorists with an Oct. 12 report that two Israelis were detained with pistols and a wide variety of grenades and explosives at Mexico's congress building. Salvador Guersson Smeke, a retired Israeli military official and nationalized Mexican, and Israeli national Sar Ben Zvi were briefly detained while federal police investigated the incident. The story was picked up, with some embellishment (Smecke suddenly became a "Mossad agent"), in the following day's Pravda and various anti-Semitic web sites which trumpeted claims that "Zionist terrorists" intended to blow up the congress building as a provocation. Too bad the conspiracy-mongers didn't read the less lurid account in the more reputable El Universal. According to the Oct. 12 El Universal, the two men were security guards in the employ of the company Private Security Systems Development which was contracted by the Mexican government, the tubes and wires in their suitcase were not bombs after all, and their firearms were legally registered."

World War 3 Report

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Century 25 Iran wouldn't be so foolhardy. And meccico hardly would notice.. along with the rampant crime & corruption ravaging that republic..

Mexicans would probably fight. If Iran invaded the US most college kids would either surrender on sight or join them.

[jose]

Quote by: The Decider rmnunez, you might find clarification in an article posted on the same day in El Universal. I don't read Spanish so I won't bother googling for that source. I've pasted the reference below: their firearms were legally registered." World War 3 Report[/b]

yea according to ¨Bill Weinberg¨, but with no link


boletín

This morning La Voz de Aztlan had a personal telephone interview with the Mexican Congressional Press Secretary, Lic. Adriana Lopez, and verified the arrest of the two Israelis after they had entered through the highly secured front entrance of the Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro. She stated to La Voz de Aztlan that the two terrorists had taken advantage of a situation that occurred around 1700 hours of Wednesday October 10 when a large contingent of Sugar Industry Unionists were entering through the metal detectors. The two Israelis followed about 50 of the unionists to the office of the President of the Mexican Congress Beatriz Paredes. The two Israelis were first pretending to be press photographers but called the attention of the sugar unionists because of their nervous and out of the ordinary behavior. About ten of the unionists confronted them and observed that they were carrying guns and and what looked to them to be explosives. They held the two Israelis until Official Congressional Security personnel took them into custody. The head of Congressional Security Salvador Alarcón verified that the Israelis had in their possession nine hand grenades, sticks of dynamite, detonators, wiring and two 9mm "Glock" automatics.

Two Israelis arrested with bombs in the Mexican Congress

[The Decider]

Quote by: jose yea according to ¨Bill Weinberg¨, but with no link

Yep, that's why I asked rmnunez to look up the El Universal story and provide an English translation. I don't read Spanish unfortunately. I didn't offer "Bill Weinberg" as a definitive source. Using biased conspiracy sources uncritically is your expertise, jose.

[Ibn_Sina]

I think some of you missed the point of the article. Chomsky is not literally talking about Iran invading Mexico... He is justifying Iran's insecurities due to US presence in Iraq.

[grandpa]

Quote by: rmnunez You've got to recognize its true and Chomsky, "no matter where he looks these days only sees (united statian) conspiracies." This is why its easy to dismiss his views. Its always the same rant, just different locations and times.

The United States is a powerful, expansionist government, so we can expect to find links between its policies and situations in the world. And Chomsky focuses on the US because it is the society he lives under.

It's not very hard to understand.

Grandpa h.

[rmnunez]

Not at all, just that for people who read political analysis and study foreign policy, Chomsky is a one-trick pony, if you want the anti-united statian perspective he can be counted on to have some tract. So when Chomsky has an article dealing with Iran, what do you expect? He'll tell us the US has done great harm to them, that it is natural for them to be antagonistic, that US relations are always harmful to others, that they are threatening, agressive, and militaristic, propelled by corporate greed and plutocratic conspiracies in pursuit of profits and ulterior motives. Chomsky says the same thing about US foreign policy everywhere.

I have 2 problems with this 'tunnel vision' of his; first, US foreign policy is different at different times and towards different countries, so it can't always be as uniformly bad as it seems to Chomsky and wouldn't be for the same reasons in different circumstances; second, the whole world is involved in international relations and while its true the US' economic and military power makes it much more influential, other countries' foreign policies do have impact and sometimes these deserve criticism which we don't hear from Chomsky.

[GHook93]

Quote by: jose Zionist Terrorists Arrested Inside Mexican Congress

Not every topic is on Israel! And nice source, why not just quote scibbling on bathroom walls. If these piece of anti-semitic bull-shit was even close to true the world news would have picked up, rather an a BS blog. :rolleyes: