Impeach Now: or Face the End of Constitutional Democracy

[sdbest]

Counter Punch: Impeach Now or Face the End of Constitutional Democracy

Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran.

Personally, I harbor great fear that Bush and Cheney, with the support of the Pentagon, the "military/industrial complex", and the right-wing media will impose a police state or military dictatorship in America in the name of national security.

As a Canadian I can't do much about it, but my American friends on this site can. Urge--by personal meeting, telephone, mail, and e-mail--your Congressional representatives in the House and Senate to impeach, try, and convict the President and Vice-President before it's too late.

America and the world can only fear an American theocratic military dictatorship or police state. What's happening in America today is eerily parallel to what happened in mid to late 1930s Germany and Italy that gave rise to Nazism, Fascism, and WWII.

To my Conservative and Libertarian opponents on this site, this is no longer an academic debate, it's the real thing.


Regards
S.

[Jack]

You could be right, and I harbor my own concerns regarding the possibility of an impending theocracy. Then again, historically the American voters are a reactionary bunch. We swing from left to right with some consistency. For four or eight years we prefer a conservative leader, then we think a more liberal leader might be better, then we go conservative again... It will take more than one president to set a precedence. After the next election we should have a better idea if this "the president can do whatever he/she wants without Constitutional or legal restraints" attitude will be endorsed or rejected by the majority of the voters.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Isherwood After the next election we should have a better idea if this "the president can do whatever he/she wants without Constitutional or legal restraints" attitude will be endorsed or rejected by the majority of the voters.

You're assuming that there will be an '08 election. Bush has taken the necessary steps to cancel or postpone the election. See Scoop: John Olver Believes Bush Will Cancel 2008 Election

Regards
S.

[Osborn F Enready]

SDBest said: To my Conservative and Libertarian opponents on this site, this is no longer an academic debate, it's the real thing.

Oh, now that you recognize it, and endorse it, how could anyone reject it......

Yes, welcome to the club. You now recognize what many have recognized since the "New Deal".

I agree, it is a serious threat, and the American people should treat it as such and take action everyday to correct it in every level of our lives, local to federal. We should be writing our representatives everyday with complaints and demands of action, along with a promise of holding those officials accountable by means of impeachment and trial for any crimes reaching the level of punishment ability.

We should also be demanding a change of campaign, debate and electoral proceedings, including the method of voting, starting with a clear voting rights amendment, a demand for instant runoff voting with verifiable paper ballot receipts, an amendment to abolish the electoral college in exchange for direct vote by IRV, as well as many other major, fundamental issues.

But hey, yea, thanks for noticing.

[Jack]

True, I am. If a step like that was attempted, I suspect even the sheeple will panic and take steps, from nation-wide protests to armed resistance, to ensure the elections take place. The article doesn't give much depth to the Congressman's reasoning. I think his speculation is extreme and doesn't take citizen reactions into account.
But I certainly can't say that what he predicts couldn't happen. If it does, I may be moving in next to you.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Oh, now that you recognize it, and endorse it, how could anyone reject it...... Yes, welcome to the club. You now recognize what many have recognized since the "New Deal".

If you wish to play debate, Osborn, while your country sinks into dictatorship go ahead. It's not my "socialist" country or any of the socialist EU countries that you and your ilk decry that are at risk of becoming a military dictatorship, it's your "freedom loving" country.

Your notion that "many" have recognized the threat since the "New Deal" only heightens my concern. If people like you haven't been able to secure your country's democracy over the last 7 decades what possible good will you--and people like you--be if the worst happens in the next year or two?

Let's never forget it is people who share many of your views who elected Bush and Cheney, not the people who share mine.

Regards
S.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Isherwood True, I am. If a step like that was attempted, I suspect even the sheeple will panic and take steps, from nation-wide protests to armed resistance, to ensure the elections take place.

Isherwood, I hope with all my heart that you are right. The lessons from history, however, don't give us much to be optimistic about. The "sheeple" in fact voted for Hitler and Mussolini, and they voted to have their rights stripped. Are Americans different? Let's hope they are never put to the test.

Regards
S.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: SDBest Personally, I harbor great fear that Bush and Cheney, with the support of the Pentagon, the "military/industrial complex", and the right-wing media will impose a police state or military dictatorship in America in the name of national security.

And you have evidence that they're going to do this and not merely fade into obscurity like what is supposed to happen?

Quote by: SDBest What's happening in America today is eerily parallel to what happened in mid to late 1930s Germany and Italy that gave rise to Nazism, Fascism, and WWII.

How so?

Also, what is this doing in Breaking News?

[Osborn F Enready]

SDBest said: If people like you haven't been able to secure your country's democracy over the last 7 decades what possible good will you--and people like you--be if the worst happens in the next year or two?

A valid question, one I have pondered myself.

The answer is pretty clear though. Revolution by force is ugly, it costs a lot of lives, and is truly a "last case" scenario that requires most if not all individuals to do several things, being:

-Actually taking a stand, and backing that stand with action.(either way)
-True sacrifice for convictions, and a test to what you truly believe.
-Risking everything you have aquired, everything and everyone you love.

Those are big risks, but risks that must be taken seriously when clear and present danger is imminent, and Bush or ANY president taking those actions would be clear and present danger, showing intent for imminent threat to the liberties of all in this nation, as well as the safety of every life within the nation.

That kind of threat would surely motivate true individuals and patriots to action, while showing clearly who was at heart a subject or a citizen.

I have already drawn several lines in the sand, none of which have been crossed yet, but several are getting closer than I had ever thought possible in this amount of time.

Time will tell.

SDbest said: Let's never forget it is people who share many of your views who elected Bush and Cheney, not the people who share mine.

Well, some point that is. People who share your views elect people like Castro, Chavez and Hitler. Regardless, that point is pretty much not a point, nor attributable either way.

The funny thing to me.....

My ideology for government (free-market capitalism unregulated except for the enforcement of individual rights, and limited government that recognizes individual rights as the limit of government authority) allows people with your ideolgy for government to live within it, at peace. Your ideology does not do the same for those who value the right to property, the right to defense, or the ownership of ones own body.

[sdbest]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 How so?

You need me to give you history lesson? How tragic.

Regards
S.

[Athena]

Quote by: sdbest Counter Punch: Impeach Now or Face the End of Constitutional Democracy Personally, I harbor great fear that Bush and Cheney, with the support of the Pentagon, the "military/industrial complex", and the right-wing media will impose a police state or military dictatorship in America in the name of national security. As a Canadian I can't do much about it, but my American friends on this site can. Urge--by personal meeting, telephone, mail, and e-mail--your Congressional representatives in the House and Senate to impeach, try, and convict the President and Vice-President before it's too late. America and the world can only fear an American theocratic military dictatorship or police state. What's happening in America today is eerily parallel to what happened in mid to late 1930s Germany and Italy that gave rise to Nazism, Fascism, and WWII. To my Conservative and Libertarian opponents on this site, this is no longer an academic debate, it's the real thing. Regards S.

There is nothing eerie about it. The US adopted the German model of bureaucracy and this is a huge shift of power from citizens to the government. It replaced its liberal education with the German model of education for technology military and industry. We built government new research and media links that enables government to control media, again using the German model. With these new links, Reagan scapegoated the poor to slash domestic budgets and pour money into military spending as the Germans did only they used the Jews for this shift in control and spending. Like hello, when you use the recipe for chicken soup, you get chicken soup.

Focusing on Bush and Cheney is a huge mistake. They come late on the scene and are only front men. The danger is much greater than them starting a war, which I doubt that congress will allow another war. The greater danger is Bush and Cheney are not controlled by laws, and this opens the door for following presidents to do as they please, without the control of law. The Bush and Cheney must be corrected by impeachment and this is the very reason we have impeachment law. If we fail to do so, we will have no control of the excutive branch. the checks and balances of our government will be destroyed. And thanks to the change in public education, the Christian Right without liberal education might make the destruction of our democracy happen.

[Athena]

this was just a reword of the first post. My machine is screwing up this morning, and I thought the first post had been lost.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: sdbest You need me to give you history lesson? How tragic. Regards S.

You need me to give you a lesson in debate etiquette or common sense? How tragic.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: sdbest Personally, I harbor great fear that Bush and Cheney, with the support of the Pentagon, the "military/industrial complex", and the right-wing media will impose a police state or military dictatorship in America in the name of national security.

I am going to consult that news with my doctor :-)

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 And you have evidence that they're going to do this and not merely fade into obscurity like what is supposed to happen?

Chaos.... this is pretty much common knowlege with every Canadian citizen who pays attention to anything coming from the US, and since you're right below us, we get a lot of your information.

Myself or others like me who keep talking about this, arn't trying to rub things into your faces and show we're better or anything.... these comments form Canadians are in your own best interests.......

We don't get surrounded and bombarded by your government's propaganda, nor does it even relate to us.... but we see it, we read it, and we know when you guys are being bull sh*tted..... the unfortunate thing is that you guys don't have any respectable media outlets that are not influenced by money or one political party, so how are you going to know who's telling you the truth.

So what happens is this current division in your country.... where you guys know you're being lied to, but you pick sides of either the Democrats or the Republicans and think that perhaps one of them are lieing less to you then the other......

they're both lying to you and they're both moving to the above government. The more they preach about freedom and liberty, the more you loose.....

We haven't been affected by all the propaganda over the last few years since Bush has been in power, because our media and news contradicts most of what the US media reports, or has more information of the overall story in which you don't get..... and it's a shame, because these poloticians are taking the country of your's right our from under you.

I have my hate for the US for certain reasons, but I hate your government the worst.... it's the worst thing running on this planet right now.... it's the bane of the world and what's causing all this crap..... I would much rather you guys keep the USA that you believe in, that you hold dear to, and that represented freedom and democracy...... rather then what these freaks are trying to pull over your eyes......

Before you know it, Bush will say something like he has to remain as Chief and Commander until the Iraq war is over, and screw up some law and make some loophole so he can..... he already went around the international human rights laws, by reclassifying who you guys capture as enemy non-combatants.... instead of POWs.....

Canada and the US are intertwined more so then most would want to admit..... and although I usually got a piss on for the US, you guys are still part of the family, and I don't want you the people to be screwed over by the government that is supposed to be for and by the people.

[Century 25]

I think the MIMC has taken steps to insure it's perpetuity. Also, the Bush/Cheney syndicate may not wish to vacate the.. "office" of "presidency" - and I can't even imagine how a hugely divided nation.. (that has been engineered for this very reason) - could do much to evict them.

Divided we are going to fall.. quarantined in our neighborhoods, wards, townships.. etc.. with a war-terrorism mandate of Marshall law, people loyal to the so-called "patriot act" - may be willing to turn on neighbors.. or even friends/relatives.. it has happened many.. many times throughout history. Think how easy it would be. All it would take is a threat called by Bush inc. stating that "the al-Qaeda terrorists" have entered the country.. and are spreading bio-terror material (could be botulism.. anthrax..etc..) into our food.. water etc.. and we are declaring a National Emergency.. all persons not authorized by government officials for duty.. are "hereby ordered to remain within their homes.. until further notice.. and violators may/will be shot" - what the hell could we do..??

[inthemiddle]

Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran.

I hate to say it, but you might be right in regards to this administration. There setting themselves up nicely. Bush really believes that everythign he's doing is for the good of the nation, and when a democrat wins election, I would not be surprised if he made some sort of a power grab.

He seems to be setting himself up for it too. Read this executive privlidge document thhe posted.

Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq

With this, he could try to argue that someone who is anti war or wants the troops to pull out of Iraq is violating this "law".

And then the Governemnt can seize your property.

Pretty scary stuff.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Praxius Before you know it, Bush will say something like he has to remain as Chief and Commander until the Iraq war is over, and screw up some law and make some loophole so he can.....

Speculation is not evidence. I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that the Bush administration is planning on not relinquishing the Presidency once Bush's term is up.

The posturing about how other media is more accurate, like we in the US are somehow unable to access the internet...

The constant implications that the Bush admin is somehow more evil than it is incompetent... Comparisons to Nazi Germany and the like...

The baseless speculation...

All are attempts to give a lot more credit to and to demonize the government you don't like.

The Bush administration is incompetent, it is opportunistic, and in many cases has proven itself ignorant of the world around it. HOWEVER, making baseless claims and comparisons to an extreme evil in order to insult them only serve as to give them more support in the form of those of us who while are not happy with the administration, are neither happy with those trying to influence our feelings and make them worse as if they were not present from the beginning. By taking this too far, you make them appear persecuted and give credence to their claims of such.

With all of the bad things this administration has done, there is simply no excuse to jump off the deep end with histrionic speculation that sounds more like the plot of Star Wars than it does the US political atmosphere that has repeatedly shown itself more interested in maintaining the status quo than in attempting serious change of any kind.

Frankly, a lot of the scandals that Bush has found himself in the middle of are based upon things that past administrations have been doing for decades and his are merely too incompetent to cover up like his predecessors. This doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make him this Orwellian beast creating new ways to strip us of freedoms that have been missing for ages.

[Praxius]

Speculation is not evidence. I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that the Bush administration is planning on not relinquishing the Presidency once Bush's term is up.

By all means, just look at the previous post.

The constant implications that the Bush admin is somehow more evil than it is incompetent... Comparisons to Nazi Germany and the like... The baseless speculation..

It's only baseless speculation to you because you don't see the exact-identical pattern Bush is using..... it's not speclation.... it's frigging common sense..... you just don't want to use your common sense to admit you have a leader that's that bad.

You're country is a sham of a democracy now, you have no freedoms that are worthwhile or actually have an effect on the government anymore, you are living a fake democracy with a tyrant leading the pack, for his own goals of racism, oil and profit........ this is not speculation.... all the evidence it right in front of your eyes every day you wake up, he has yet to prove otherwise.

And sorry, I hate Star Wars..... it was always a crappy story line I thought.... too basic.... I don't relate my reasoning on things to space movies with Jar Jar Binks, thanks.

And it really doesn't matter what I say, or what you think..... we'll all figure it out in the end now won't we?

[Athena]

Bush and Cheney must be impreached so following presidents do not assume the same immunity to law.

ImpeachBush / VoteToImpeach: Articles of Impeachment Articles of Impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. - - ARTICLE II, SECTION 4 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales have committed violations and subversions of the Constitution of the United States of America in an attempt to carry out with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes and deprivations of the civil rights of the people of the United States and other nations, by assuming powers of an imperial executive unaccountable to law and usurping powers of the Congress, the Judiciary and those reserved to the people of the United States, by the following acts: 1) Seizing power to wage wars of aggression in defiance of the U.S. Constitution, the U.N. Charter and the rule of law; carrying out a massive assault on and occupation of Iraq, a country that was not threatening the United States, resulting in the death and maiming of over one hundred thousand Iraqis, and thousands of U.S. G.I.s. 2) Lying to the people of the U.S., to Congress, and to the U.N., providing false and deceptive rationales for war. 3) Authorizing, ordering and condoning direct attacks on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties were unavoidable. 4) Instituting a secret and illegal wiretapping and spying operation against the people of the United States through the National Security Agency. 5) Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently changing its government by force and assaulting Iraq in a war of aggression. 6) Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of prisoners to obtain false statements concerning acts and intentions of governments and individuals and violating within the United States, and by authorizing U.S. forces and agents elsewhere, the rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. 7) Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda about the conduct of foreign governments and individuals and acts by U.S. government personnel; manipulating the media and foreign governments with false information; concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment concerning acts, intentions and possession, or efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction in order to falsely create a climate of fear and destroy opposition to U.S. wars of aggression and first strike attacks. 8) Violations and subversions of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, both a part of the "Supreme Law of the land" under Article VI, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, in an attempt to commit with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes in wars and threats of aggression against Afghanistan, Iraq and others and usurping powers of the United Nations and the peoples of its nations by bribery, coercion and other corrupt acts and by rejecting treaties, committing treaty violations, and frustrating compliance with treaties in order to destroy any means by which international law and institutions can prevent, affect, or adjudicate the exercise of U.S. military and economic power against the international community. 9) Acting to strip United States citizens of their constitutional and human rights, ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to counsel, without charge, and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the Executive of a citizen as an "enemy combatant." 10) Ordering indefinite detention of non-citizens in the United States and elsewhere, and without charge, at the discretionary designation of the Attorney General or the Secretary of Defense. 11) Ordering and authorizing the Attorney General to override judicial orders of release of detainees under INS jurisdiction, even where the judicial officer after full hearing determines a detainee is wrongfully held by the government. 12) Authorizing secret military tribunals and summary execution of persons who are not citizens who are designated solely at the discretion of the Executive who acts as indicting official, prosecutor and as the only avenue of appellate relief. 13) Refusing to provide public disclosure of the identities and locations of persons who have been arrested, detained and imprisoned by the U.S. government in the United States, including in response to Congressional inquiry. 14) Use of secret arrests of persons within the United States and elsewhere