Impeach Now: or Face the End of Constitutional Democracy

[Osborn F Enready]

Athena said: There is nothing eerie about it. The US adopted the German model of bureaucracy and this is a huge shift of power from citizens to the government.

Who adopted it?!? Americans, or their elected officials, ALL republicans and democrats?

When was this shift, and where did the push for acceptance come from?

Athena said: It replaced its liberal education with the German model of education for technology military and industry.

Are you saying we should NOT prepare students for ACTUAL jobs that exist in the market? What is YOUR answer Athena?

Athena said: We built government new research and media links that enables government to control media, again using the German model.

What links are these specificly, and did they come about before, after or because of Operation Mockingbird?

What role did the CITIZENS play in this?

Athena said: The greater danger is Bush and Cheney are not controlled by laws, and this opens the door for following presidents to do as they please, without the control of law.

How was this different than what FDR did with the New Deal, or what happened with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act? The complete and total changeover from Gold and Silver to fiat?

Constitutional limitations haven't applied to Presidents since the War and Emergency Powers Act, and the removal of War Powers from Congress.

Athena said: The Bush and Cheney must be corrected by impeachment and this is the very reason we have impeachment law. If we fail to do so, we will have no control of the excutive branch.

I fully agree, but why the urgency with THESE corrupt leaders, as opposed to PAST corrupt leaders, in YOUR opinion?

Athena said: the checks and balances of our government will be destroyed.

Newsflash, they already have been, because people are too complacent, and fear the reprisals of corrupt government and the instability that may come with rocking the apple cart too far.

The time for peaceful revolt is passing, and I fear that the time for violent revolt is growing near far too fast for many average people to even understand why, when and how its going to happen.

[Century 25]

Athena said:

Focusing on Bush and Cheney is a huge mistake. They come late on the scene and are only front men. The danger is much greater than them starting a war, which I doubt that congress will allow another war. The greater danger is Bush and Cheney are not controlled by laws, and this opens the door for following presidents to do as they please, without the control of law. The Bush and Cheney must be corrected by impeachment and this is the very reason we have impeachment law. If we fail to do so, we will have no control of the excutive branch. the checks and balances of our government will be destroyed. And thanks to the change in public education, the Christian Right without liberal education might make the destruction of our democracy happen.

"Focusing on Bush and Cheney is a huge mistake. They come late on the scene and are only front men." -- Yes, they are the hustlers installed by the syndicate that has been operating for many years.

However.. as inept as Bush may seem.. as boorish as he is.. the Cheney - Bush "team" is the first to have gone full tilt.. gotten away with it.. and have em-placed enough shielding (for lack of a better word), that will allow this MIMC (Military, Industrial, Media complex) - to use their self-appointed power in a Hitleresque regime.

I do not believe this MIMC syndicate will risk losing all.. I think we will see their final coup d'état.. this syndicate will overthrow the "government" as we once knew it.

Of course.. we won't have too long to wait.. before the next "presidential" election. Wanna place any bets.. (for "fun")..?? :eek:

[saif]

Quote by: Praxius Canada and the US are intertwined more so then most would want to admit..... and although I usually got a piss on for the US, you guys are still part of the family, and I don't want you the people to be screwed over by the government that is supposed to be for and by the people.

Only a canadien would say such a statement..

[Praxius]

Quote by: saif Only a canadien would say such a statement..

That's because we're not selfish arseholes like some other countries in the world who just think for themselves.

[saif]

Quote by: Praxius That's because we're not selfish arseholes like some other countries in the world who just think for themselves.

once again you have managed to play yourself, The contributions to the world are unmatched by any other "selfish" Country.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: saif once again you have managed to play yourself, The contributions to the world are unmatched by any other "selfish" Country.

I think these Canadians are upset America will soon require passports to enter into the USA.

Quote by: BobbyO I think these Canadians are upset America will soon require passports to enter into the USA.

Most Canadians who travel have a passport. It's Americans who are having a problem with needing a passport to re-enter their own country.

Regards
S.

Quote by: saif Only a canadien would say such a statement..

Watch the attitude, Dude. Or we'll start cutting off your oil and water. And, don't forget, the last time we had a dust up which was in 1812, we won.

Regards
S.

[saif]

Quote by: sdbest Watch the attitude, Dude. Or we'll start cutting off your oil and water. And, don't forget, the last time we had a dust up which was in 1812, we won. Regards S.

I think its time to make a new module on the site.... It will work just like the "most posts per month" mod, however, it will display the total number of immature and ignorant comments that members post per month.

[Praxius]

Quote by: saif once again you have managed to play yourself, The contributions to the world are unmatched by any other "selfish" Country.

I see you can't take a friggin joke.... (Funny because you seem to take the jokers in power)

And once again you have decided to throw words in my mouth of which I never said or posted.... so pull the stick out of your arse and lighten up.

Next time you open you mouth, how about you read what is being said.... READ what you quote from me, and understand your replies before posting.

I say one dam nice thing towards the US society and showing some actual support, and you gotta bitch and whine that I'm trying to make us sound better..... once again.... proving my own point that people like you think you're the best in the world even when people wish to show you support, you gotta throw your own dam arrogance in the wind to piss everybody off like you can do it yourself.... and yet, it's also people like you that makes me just want to sit by and watch your entire country become a radioactive wasteland which is exactly where you're heading, but people like you are so dam ignorant to see it coming.

I never once said in the history of my life that Canada was the best country in the world, but everytime I try and contribute a suggestion or opinion that could be used constructivly or is something most didn't think of or mention as of yet, you gotta get on your high horse and think I'm trying to out show you or something..... Give it up and get over your primary ego trip.

Apparently the majority in your country as well as the rest of the world disagrees with your opinion about staying in Iraq.... perhaps you should begin to considder those opinions....

[saif]

Perhaps you should look into receiving a mental health evaluation sometime in the very near future. I say this because I am extremely worried that the socialist agenda you have been promoting has been too difficult a task and ultimately too stressfull for you to handle. Please heed my advice and make an appointment soon. Understanding this, I will just overlook your continued cyber temper tantrum in hope that you will seek professional help.

Quote by: Praxius Apparently the majority in your country as well as the rest of the world disagrees with your opinion about staying in Iraq.... perhaps you should begin to consider those opinions....

Again where is your evidence? do you have any to support your notion?
I have provided sufficient evidence to support my stance.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: sdbest Most Canadians who travel have a passport. It's Americans who are having a problem with needing a passport to re-enter their own country. Regards S.

I'm sorry. I read your initial note and just laughed and laughed. I remained stunned that your post was serious.

[Praxius]

Quote by: saif Perhaps you should look into receiving a mental health evaluation sometime in the very near future.

No need... I already know I'm insane....

I say this because I am extremely worried that the socialist agenda you have been promoting has been too difficult a task and ultimately too stressfull for you to handle.

You are worried because you seem ingulfed into your absolute Capitalism ideals, where Canada has been known for mergers of socialist ideas and methods into democracy to help democracy stay stronger.... just because something is considdered communist, or socialist, or whatever, doesn't make it a bad thing.... our country is built on diversity, different races, different religions, different cultures, different forms of Government.... it is this balance of diversity which helps keep things balanced as much as they are, considdering the unequality you all seem to live in the US... the fear of oppression, the fear of terrorism, the fear of those who are or think differently then you, the fear of immigration (If you guys upheld and enforced your original immigration laws, you wouldn't require more laws to begin with)

Please heed my advice and make an appointment soon. Understanding this, I will just overlook your continued cyber temper tantrum in hope that you will seek professional help.

Uh-huh.... look out.... mental prax is going on a rampage.... here he comes to eat your babies :rolleyes:

You and one other seem to think my straight forwardness and to the point comments are temper tantrums..... grow a thicker skin.... if I can take all of you and your short minded views, then you should be able to take some of mine

Again where is your evidence? do you have any to support your notion? I have provided sufficient evidence to support my stance.

You need evidence for common sense? *sigh* fine then......

BBC Poll

A new global poll finds that in 33 of 35 countries surveyed, the most common view is that the war in Iraq has increased the likelihood of terrorist attacks around the world. On average, 60 percent of the respondents have this perception, while just 12 percent think the Iraq war has decreased the likelihood of terrorist attacks; another 15 percent think it has had no effect either way. The poll of 41,856 people was conducted for the BBC World Service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together with the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland. The 35-nation fieldwork was coordinated by GlobeScan and completed between October 2005 and January 2006. Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, “Though the Bush administration has framed the intervention in Iraq as a means of fighting terrorism, all around the world—including in the US—most people view it as having increased the likelihood of terrorist attacks. The near unanimity of this assessment among countries is remarkable in global public opinion polling.” Consistent with this uneasiness about the war in Iraq, more people than not in 20 of 35 countries think US-led forces should withdraw from Iraq in the next few months, while in nine countries, more people think US-led forces should remain until the situation is stabilized. Six countries are divided. On average, 50 percent favor an early withdrawal, while 35 percent favor remaining until the situation is stabilized. The countries most eager for US coalition withdrawal are Argentina (80%), Egypt (76%), China (67%), Brazil (67%), Saudi Arabia (64%) and Senegal (64%). The countries most inclined to favor the US remaining until Iraq is stable are the US (58%), Afghanistan (58%), Australia (57%), Great Britain (56%) and Germany (55%).

And in another source:

World Public Opinion

A new study based on a series of seven US polls conducted from January through September of this year reveals that before and after the Iraq war, a majority of Americans have had significant misperceptions and these are highly related to support for the war in Iraq. The polling, conducted by the Program on International Policy (PIPA) at the University of Maryland and Knowledge Networks, also reveals that the frequency of these misperceptions varies significantly according to individuals’ primary source of news. Those who primarily watch Fox News are significantly more likely to have misperceptions, while those who primarily listen to NPR or watch PBS are significantly less likely. An in-depth analysis of a series of polls conducted June through September found 48% incorrectly believed that evidence of links between Iraq and al Qaeda have been found, 22% that weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq, and 25% that world public opinion favored the US going to war with Iraq. Overall 60% had at least one of these three misperceptions. Such misperceptions are highly related to support for the war. Among those with none of the misperceptions listed above, only 23% support the war. Among those with one of these misperceptions, 53% support the war, rising to 78% for those who have two of the misperceptions, and to 86% for those with all 3 misperceptions. Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, “While we cannot assert that these misperceptions created the support for going to war with Iraq, it does appear likely that support for the war would be substantially lower if fewer members of the public had these misperceptions.” The frequency of Americans’ misperceptions varies significantly depending on their source of news. The percentage of respondents who had one or more of the three misperceptions listed above is shown below......

So in other words, if you're an idiot, you believe it was and still is a good idea to remain in Iraq.... if you actually gathered some useful information around the world and got an average outlook, you might realize that invading and staying in Iraq is making things worse.

You wanted statistics and proof..... start adding the numbers and figure it out for yourself..... it's not too hard to do.... although perhaps you have difficulty believing that your government lied and now you all are responsible for what is going on in the world today.

[saif]

Quote by: Praxius You need evidence for common sense? *sigh* fine then...... BBC Poll And in another source: World Public Opinion

Argentina, Egypt, China, Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Senegal.These are not countries whom I worry about our Popularity.. Are you kidding me?

US, Afghanistan, Australia, Great Britain and Germany.
obviously thee is a huge difference between these countries and those mentioned before.

As far as Americans are concerned, the majority do not agree with an all-out withdraw from the war in Iraq, these polls can be found at pollingreport.com and the harris poll.

What is even funnier is the fact that so many of you progressive socialists complain about getting out of Iraq as well as saying there is no strategy... yet not one has stood up to say what THEY WILL DO, why? what do you propose should then happen if we withdraw? what does your strategy layout for the future of Iraq?


Thats the perfect avatar for you.. Starscream the coward Transformer!

[LadiesMan217]

The idea that we will become a theocracy is pretty ridiculus, you can rest at ease Sdbest the American people will not allow it.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: ladiesman217 The idea that we will become a theocracy is pretty ridiculus, you can rest at ease Sdbest the American people will not allow it.

Heck, Canada is more a theocracy than the USA is anyhow. Their head of state is also head of a church.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ladiesman217 The idea that we will become a theocracy is pretty ridiculus, you can rest at ease Sdbest the American people will not allow it.

Like they wouldn't allow everything else he's done.... right :rolleyes: I won't hold my breath on that one.

Heck, Canada is more a theocracy than the USA is anyhow. Their head of state is also head of a church.

I haven't seen him do too much that would seem like he's using his religion for his polotics, like some other leaders......

Keep digging that hole there....

[Praxius]

Quote by: saif Argentina, Egypt, China, Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Senegal.These are not countries whom I worry about our Popularity.. Are you kidding me?

Who's kidding who.... talk about an isolated attitude.

US, Afghanistan, Australia, Great Britain and Germany. obviously thee is a huge difference between these countries and those mentioned before.

Oh, so you're going to try and explain to me how you can know the knowlege other countries have about the world around them and have no influence either, or is this just your personal attitude towards things you don't know or won't understand?

As far as Americans are concerned, the majority do not agree with an all-out withdraw from the war in Iraq, these polls can be found at pollingreport.com and the harris poll.

Seems like the majority on your debate tonight disagree.... oh, but I suppose they were biased against the Republicans and Bush.... like they wouldn't have a reason to be or something?

What is even funnier is the fact that so many of you progressive socialists complain about getting out of Iraq as well as saying there is no strategy... yet not one has stood up to say what THEY WILL DO, why? what do you propose should then happen if we withdraw? what does your strategy layout for the future of Iraq?

Simple, let them do with the dam country as they please.... if the crap hits the fan, they can go ask the UN for help.... you guys already FUBAR'd the whole dam thing already, you think you're helping now with this surge, and you're making it worse.... what the heck do you think should be done?

As even mentioned before, the government over there got a week off because it was Hot while your soldiers continued to die for that week of nothing being done..... great progress.... real smooth.... you guys should get a gold sticker for that one...... and this is towards your leaders and planners, not your troops who are trying to make ends meet, trying to have families, trying to make a life for themselves and risking their lives for nothing in the process, while your current leaders do absolutely squat.

I already told you my solution, so now you can stop complaining that nobody has a solution.

There will be more violence afterwards, but with your influence and your troops, and your leaders meddling in their affairs for their own gains, you might be suprised as to how well they'll turn out.

But your poloticians make them sound like infants, people who can't think for themselves..... well you're certainly not going to give them a chance if you keep this up.

Watch some news, try and look for some articles in relation to families who lost their mothers, fathers, husbands, wives over there, not just in your country, but the civilians in Iraq, you guys made this mess, here's your options on fixing it, you decide.

Thats the perfect avatar for you.. Starscream the coward Transformer!

Psh.... you're memory must be hazy.... or is just that evil political mentality you have towards cartoons? I suppose you think Papa Smurf was a commie too? Did Vainity Smurf get you all upset when you were a kid?

Great insult... .oooo.... the coward..... coming from someone who's too chicking to make a decision himself on this topic, and just wants his leaders to make it for him..... which is great.... because they don't know what they're doing either.... they're just adding more troops and more troops to fight and fight and try and ride it out to the end.......

Hmmm.... would I like to be the most oportunist, resourceful, deceptive decepticon in their ranks, or would I rather be a sheep following a lemming to their utter distruction?

[Praxius]

I remember someone once saying "Failure is not an option"

Well you got two right now.... Failure or Distruction of your society I guess it's till the last man standing by your methods.... like a dinosaur looking at the comet. This war will continually sap your country of everything it once was..... and if you can't see it already begining, well.... I hate being right all the time.... but sometimes, you just gotta watch fate occur I suppose.

I never believed much into fate until the last few years watching all of this... easily predicting the whole thing..... but who want's to listen to some one guy?

• I knew the moment I saw Bush's face he was going to bring missery to this world.
• I've already predicted the war in Afghanistan after 9/11 hit and he would make some stupid acusations with nothing to back them up.
• I knew then and there as he announced his invasion of Afghanistan, that he would turn to Iraq in approx. a year even before anybody was talking about WOMD or Iraq for that matter.... even before he was finished there.
• I knew there wasn't any WOMD, and the evidence he was trying to show the to public was a sham.
• I knew Osama was going to flee over to Pakistan's borders.
• I knew they wouldn't find him for years, because Bush doesn't want to find him that badly.
• I knew Iraq would explode in Chaos and violence and use their religion to fuel it to continue to make your mission fail, and it is.
• I knew Afghanistan and Iraq would just be the begining if he contiued on his path of distruction without anybody stopping him, and he's now planning that.
• He has been talking about Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan, and other countries in the region.
* Pakistan he believes is now the easier on the list, he will plan some excuse that Osama is in Pakistan (But no longer, I wonder why)
* He will now cause absolute chaos and distruction in that region.
* Before he starts to cut short his resources and influence, he will invade Iran.
* Then Syria.
* He knows he will not win any of these battles... this was never the plan in the first place. He wants to cause so much chaos and instability in the middle east at the expense of the lower income in the US, who he believes are useless, that he will then try and make the population convienced that he must use all force nessicary for the security of the Homeland (Reminds me of Motherland)
* He will launch nuclear warheads in those areas, causing massive destruction, massive casualties including your own soldiers (Whom will remain to hold them in position, but will tell the public that they will be far enough away) and by that, causing the next world war

Congratulations...... Game Over.... we all loose, and he wins..... not you guys, he does.... along with his other friends.

And it's not just me saying this, check the news being posted by others here who are outraged by various things that he's doing, various laws he is making and breaking, the ability to cancel anybody coming into power who may threaten the security in Iraq......

1st..... what security?
2nd.... this is very similar to what Hitler did.... removed all opposition, and made the public entrust only him.

You guys say the public won't allow it? You haven't stopped on thing yet, and everything marked with a "*" has yet to be proven by time..... unless there is some form of intervention from now to when he anounces his plans to invade his next country, this will fall into place and will come to pass.

I don't care if you believe me.... I don't need anybody to believe in me.... but for those concerned, the information is all out there.... you can see it for yourself, and it's not hard to see and understand.... you can find most of the pieces in this forum alone. Read and judge for yourself... but for the love of whatever god you believe in.... don't put your faith in this person or anybody below him to succeed him.

He likes to use Bible analogies, well has he or anybody else heard of the Wolf in Sheeps clothing?

[The Decider]

Quote by: saif As far as Americans are concerned, the majority do not agree with an all-out withdraw from the war in Iraq, these polls can be found at pollingreport.com and the harris poll.

True, but over 80% of Americans in the most recent Newsweek poll wanted the failing "surge" strategy stopped--19% wanted immediate withdrawal; 24% wanted withdrawal by spring; and 40% wanted troops pulled back to our bases. Those numbers don't support your neo-con proposals, saif. You belong to a dwindling and endangered minority of true believers in this country. Time is not on your side.

Iraq

Quote by: saif What is even funnier is the fact that so many of you progressive socialists complain about getting out of Iraq as well as saying there is no strategy... yet not one has stood up to say what THEY WILL DO, why? what do you propose should then happen if we withdraw? what does your strategy layout for the future of Iraq?

It's somewhat amusing when proponents of failed strategies lecture others about strategy. And when alternative strategies are offered--like regional diplomacy, partition, and the like--the authors and supporters of the failed strategies roll their eyes and dismiss those strategies as unworkable (as I expect you will do, saif, since they don't involve growing numbers of American forces blowing things and people and nations to pieces).

In other words, after almost five years of failure in Iraq your neo-con advice is no longer needed or respected by most Americans, let alone the world. Thanks anyway.