Demographics of Iran and Israel…

[Ibn_Sina]

Finally I have got the time to sort out this little demographic misunderstanding. Whenever Israel is attacked in this forum because of its racist policies, GHook93 keeps on committing ad hominem fallacies by pointing out that Iran (I’m an Iranian by birth) is a racist society and in the process, ignores the central point of the debate.

His argument is: Israel is a more diverse society and that is why it cannot be a racist society.

GHook93 said: What percentage of Iran is not Persian and Muslim. What less than 1%. Nearly 20% of Israel is Arab/Muslim.

Reasons for Israel’s diversity:

1. The reason 20% of Israel is an Arab or Muslim is because Arab Muslims/Palestinians have been living in this land way before Jews came to Palestine in 1948. OF COURSE there will be a decent percentage of Arabs in Israel. Any school boy can get his head around that.

2. As soon as a Jew enters Israel from any country in the world, he is given citizenship. It doesn’t matter whether he is a Chinese Jew or Maori Jew or an American Jew. Therefore, if a country encourages immigration, it will eventually become diverse.

Truth about the demography of Iran:

I think GHook93’s assessment of Iran’s demography is quite imaginative, if not deliberately distorted.

The main ethnic groups are Persians (51%), Azeris (24%), Gilaki and Mazandarani (8%), Kurds (7%), Arabs (3%), Baluchi (2%), Lurs (2%), Turkmens (2%), Qashqai, Armenians, Persian Jews, Georgians, Assyrians, Circassians, Tats, Pashtuns and others (1%) Demography of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

51% Persians. I expected you to debate more honestly.

As for 98% Muslims, well, if Israel was not situated in the middle-east or more specifically Palestine, I doubt there would be more than 0.001% Muslims. Moreover, 16.2% of Israelities are Muslims, NOT 20% like you have guessed.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Finally I have got the time to sort out this little demographic misunderstanding. Whenever Israel is attacked in this forum because of its racist policies, GHook93 keeps on committing ad hominem fallacies by pointing out that Iran (I’m an Iranian by birth) is a racist society and in the process, ignores the central point of the debate. His argument is: Israel is a more diverse society and that is why it cannot be a racist society. Reasons for Israel’s diversity: 1. The reason 20% of Israel is an Arab or Muslim is because Arab Muslims/Palestinians have been living in this land way before Jews came to Palestine in 1948. OF COURSE there will be a decent percentage of Arabs in Israel. Any school boy can get his head around that. 2. As soon as a Jew enters Israel from any country in the world, he is given citizenship. It doesn’t matter whether he is a Chinese Jew or Maori Jew or an American Jew. Therefore, if a country encourages immigration, it will eventually become diverse. Truth about the demography of Iran: I think GHook93’s assessment of Iran’s demography is quite imaginative, if not deliberately distorted. 51% Persians. I expected you to debate more honestly. As for 98% Muslims, well, if Israel was not situated in the middle-east or more specifically Palestine, I doubt there would be more than 0.001% Muslims. Moreover, 16.2% of Israelities are Muslims, NOT 20% like you have guessed.

Say what you want but 98% are one religion! That is not diversity. If Israel didn't want the Arabs they would have just deported them. However, they let them into government, let them become judges etc. And don't come back with the 1 parliment member that is Jewish in Iran. I believe Israel has 18.

LOL, What a welcoming country, the only large minority comes for the neighboring country and you use the Azeris minority as an example if diversity. They share the same ideology as the Persians, Shiite. I would love to see if they were Sunnis or Christians, then there percentage would be in the single digits and they would be persecuted like all non-shias in Iran.

Iran doesn't even compare to Israel on diversity.

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 Say what you want but 98% are one religion!

There are some conservative people out there who knows, let's say, one thing. Whenever they are attacked, they shut their mind and blindly defend that one thing, without taking other relevant factors into account.

You are one of those. You keep on mentioning the "98%" but ignore other factors. Israel is in the middle-east, of course, a good number of Muslims will be there. It's their homeland.

Iran doesn't even compare to Israel on diversity.

Iranian majority: 51% Persians.

Israeli majority: 76% Jews.

There goes "diversity" out of the window.

[shrike]

Iran is racist not because its a diverse or not but because its fundamentalist Muslim state that have a dhimmi institute.
Where Jews and Christians are second class citizens but idolaters even don't get this. Their choice is to convert or die.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Iranian majority: 51% Persians. Israeli majority: 76% Jews. There goes "diversity" out of the window.

LOL you talk about grasping onto one thing. For all intensive purposes Jews are part of a religion, not a race or ethnicity. the 76% can be broken down to races and ethnicities all over the world included the middle east. Persian people are part of a race. If you are going to compare that 76% to anything its to the 98% Muslim in Iran.

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: shrike Where Jews and Christians are second class citizens but idolaters even don't get this. Their choice is to convert or die.

I see you've been reading too much Salman Rushdie. Well, if Jews are treated as second-class citizens in Iran, why don't they go to Israel, where they would get instant citizenship? They won't.. Because they are treated equally in Iranian society.

[shrike]

Well, if Jews are treated as second-class citizens in Iran, why don't they go to Israel, where they would get instant citizenship? They won't.. Because they are treated equally in Iranian society.

They wont because they afraid. What would happen to the rest if part of them live. Also they indoctrinated with Iranian propaganda.

At the time of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States. At the time of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, 80,000 still remained in Iran. From then on, Jewish emigration from Iran dramatically increased, as about 20,000 Jews left within several months after the Islamic Revolution.[20] On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8.[20][23] In mid- and late 1980s, the Jewish population of Iran was estimated at 20,000–30,000. The reports put the figure at around 35,000 in mid-1990s[24] and at less than 40,000 nowadays, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran. However, Iran's Jewish community still remains the largest in the Middle East outside of Israel. [12]

So if they speak against oppressive Iranian regime they will sentenced to death.

And what about Pagan could they freely profess they religion?

[Ibn_Sina]

What happened to Habib Elghanian, happended to numerous Palestinian leaders. It's nothing new.

[Mia]

Israel only accepted any Arab Muslim population under force. Part of the deal of having a Jewish homeland was that it be democratic, and not to be unfair to the present population.

I believe they have been incredibly unfair to the present population, but kept a token amount just to appear to be honoring the agreement. Jews are in a tough spot, because they want the whole of Israel, for it to be a Jewish State, and for it to be a democratic state, and the three can not all be the case, without deporting or killing the Arab Muslims.

They seem to be trying to strike a balance - letting enough Arabs in and allowing it to be democratic,,,,,but not so many that the Arab population becomes large enough to challenge the Jewish majority.

Despite the fact that Arabs hold some government positions in Israel, they are a minority that is not treated with equality.

However, trying to hold Iran up and say that it is more diverse or more accepting of minority is ludicrous. I find all the threads comparing the two to be utterly useless.

If they must be compared, I'd rather be an Arab in Israel than a Jew or Christian in Iran.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina I see you've been reading too much Salman Rushdie. Well, if Jews are treated as second-class citizens in Iran, why don't they go to Israel, where they would get instant citizenship? They won't.. Because they are treated equally in Iranian society.

Is this honestly the truth? I only ask because we hear little on it. Is there any chance that they can't leave. I mean if they desired to leave Iran, would the Iranian government prohibit it? What if a Jew speaks out against an Muslim, are they persecuted?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Mia Israel only accepted any Arab Muslim population under force. Part of the deal of having a Jewish homeland was that it be democratic, and not to be unfair to the present population. I believe they have been incredibly unfair to the present population, but kept a token amount just to appear to be honoring the agreement. Jews are in a tough spot, because they want the whole of Israel, for it to be a Jewish State, and for it to be a democratic state, and the three can not all be the case, without deporting or killing the Arab Muslims. They seem to be trying to strike a balance - letting enough Arabs in and allowing it to be democratic,,,,,but not so many that the Arab population becomes large enough to challenge the Jewish majority. Despite the fact that Arabs hold some government positions in Israel, they are a minority that is not treated with equality. However, trying to hold Iran up and say that it is more diverse or more accepting of minority is ludicrous. I find all the threads comparing the two to be utterly useless. If they must be compared, I'd rather be an Arab in Israel than a Jew or Christian in Iran.

Well put!

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 Is this honestly the truth? I only ask because we hear little on it. Is there any chance that they can't leave. I mean if they desired to leave Iran, would the Iranian government prohibit it? What if a Jew speaks out against an Muslim, are they persecuted?

Why can't they leave? Plane tickets don't really cost much.

[shrike]

Why can't they leave? Plane tickets don't really cost much

Because they live in totalitarian theocracy.