Ethnic cleansing in Syria: The unseen terror

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina What did the Jews face?

The Holocaust
The Mother of all atrocities, in which 6 million Jews were killed. I know you will probably deny it, losing any future credability in any argument/

(2) Years of Slavery by the Egyptians
(3) Driven from the land of Israel by the Assyrians and Babloyians ==> And the first great temple destroyed. Exciled from their homeland
(4) Roman --> Geocide of the Jew, excilling them all over the world. Destroying the 2nd temple and renaming their homeland
(4) Byzantine Empire --> Mass explusion and Murder of Jews from their homeland.
(5) Christian Crusaders.
---(a) Slaughtering all the Jews in Jerusalem along with the Arabs.
---(b) 1st Holocaust- German Crusaders mass-murdered all the Jews in Germany
---(c) Explusion of the Jews from England
---(d) Explusion of the Jews from France
(6) The Spanish Inquisition
(7) The forced ghettos of the Papal States
(8) Persecution in Arab Controlled Spain

On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

(9) Arab on Jew mass-killings

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco

(10) Forced Conversions and Mass Killing in M.E. and North Africa:

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7) Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).(

(11) 1956 Egyptian Jew Explusion:

Egyptian government expelled almost 25,000 Egyptian Jews and confiscated their property, and sent approximately 1,000 more Jews to prisons and detention camps.

(12) Russian Pogroms

Jews were restricted to the Jewish Pale of Settlement, and banned from many jobs and locations. They were subject to racist laws, like the May Laws, and were targeted in hundreds of violent anti-Jewish riots, called pogroms, that had unofficial state support.

(13) Goa Inquisition - in Indian by the Porteguese

(14) The 1948 war of independence - attacks by all neighboring and larger Arab states to eterminate the Jews.

(15) The constant Palestinian Missile Attacks and suicide bombers

Need I go on

[Ibn_Sina]

Well... I must say, you started off with a bit of misinformation. I'm not a Holocaust denier, in fact, denying Holocaust is a horrible thing to do.

However, 6 Million Jews were killed?

I can't agree or disagree. Although I offer my sympathy to those Jews and those who are still traumatised by the horrible act, I must not let emotions run my objective viewpoints.

Whether 6 million Jews died or few hundred thousands, I am not sure. The "6 million" phrase has obviously been advertised by many Jews. However, there are historians and scholars who do not agree with that number.

Mahmoud Abbas pointed out several interesting things too....

His doctoral thesis later became a book, The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism, which, following his appointment as Palestinian Prime Minister in 2003, was heavily criticized as an example of Holocaust denial. In his book, Abbas wrote: "It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions—fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand." [5][6][7] In his May 2003 interview with Haaretz, Abbas stated: "I wrote in detail about the Holocaust and said I did not want to discuss numbers. I quoted an argument between historians in which various numbers of casualties were mentioned. One wrote there were 12 million victims and another wrote there were 800,000. I have no desire to argue with the figures. The Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind. The Holocaust was a terrible thing and nobody can claim I denied it." Mahmoud Abbas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One should discuss historical matters historically, not emotionally.

[Ibn_Sina]

By the way, I do not think Volconvo members appreciate plagiarism in an academic debate.

Please cite your sources regarding the atrocities Jews faced...

[billybobama]

Quote by: shrike Well it seems no one care about that.I wonder why?

The U.S. cannot do anything. The Fascist Republican Party and George Bush has saddled every single U.S. Citizen with huge debt - in other words we have no money. The Fascist Republican Party and George Bush have broken the U.S. military - in other words our military is worn out and short handed. WOW - This sounds exactly like what the Nazi Party and Adolf Hitler did to Germany by starting WWII.

[shrike]

Quote by: Ibn sina Well... I must say, you started off with a bit of misinformation. I'm not a Holocaust denier, in fact, denying Holocaust is a horrible thing to do. However, 6 Million Jews were killed?

I don't know if you are but what you write is considered holocaust denial

Holocaust denial is the claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II — usually referred to as the Holocaust[1] — did not occur in the manner and to the extent described by current scholarship.

Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't agree or disagree. Although I offer my sympathy to those Jews and those who are still traumatised by the horrible act, I must not let emotions run my objective viewpoints. Whether 6 million Jews died or few hundred thousands, I am not sure. The "6 million" phrase has obviously been advertised by many Jews. However, there are historians and scholars who do not agree with that number.

Of course there is no presice figure but its average number cited by historians

Since 1945, the most commonly cited figure for the total number of Jews killed has been six million. The Holocaust commemoration center, the Yad Vashem Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, comments: “ There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million. ” The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible.[24] Raul Hilberg, in the third edition of his ground-breaking three-volume work, The Destruction of the European Jews, estimates that 5.1 million Jews died during the Holocaust. This figure includes "over 800,000" who died from "Ghettoization and general privation"; 1,400,000 who were killed in "Open-air shootings"; and "up to 2,900,000" who perished in camps. Hilberg estimates the death toll in Poland at "up to 3,000,000".[25] Hilberg's numbers are generally considered to be a conservative estimate, as they generally include only those deaths for which some records are available, avoiding statistical adjustment.[26] British historian Martin Gilbert used a similar approach in his Atlas of the Holocaust, but arrived at a number of 5.75 million Jewish victims, since he estimated higher numbers of Jews killed in Russia and other locations.[27] Lucy S. Dawidowicz used pre-war census figures to estimate that 5.934 million Jews died (see her figures here.[28] One of the most authoritative German scholars of the Holocaust, Wolfgang Benz of the Technical University of Berlin, cites between 5.3 and 6.2 million Jews killed in Dimension des Volksmords (1991), while Yisrael Gutman and Robert Rozett estimate between 5.59 and 5.86 million Jewish victims in the Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust (1990).[29]

The Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But saying that it was few hundred thousands its holocaust denial.

[billybobama]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina By the way, I do not think Volconvo members appreciate plagiarism in an academic debate. Please cite your sources regarding the atrocities Jews faced...

Ibna Sina - don't be naive. Volcano is a huge supporter of liars and lying, not unlike other Political Forums.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Well... I must say, you started off with a bit of misinformation. I'm not a Holocaust denier, in fact, denying Holocaust is a horrible thing to do. However, 6 Million Jews were killed? I can't agree or disagree. Although I offer my sympathy to those Jews and those who are still traumatised by the horrible act, I must not let emotions run my objective viewpoints. Whether 6 million Jews died or few hundred thousands, I am not sure. The "6 million" phrase has obviously been advertised by many Jews. However, there are historians and scholars who do not agree with that number. Mahmoud Abbas pointed out several interesting things too.... One should discuss historical matters historically, not emotionally.

Yep, as I suspected! People try to cloak anti-semitism with anti-zionism. Just like people try to deny the Holocaust by duming it down. You are doing a a form of Holocaust denial!

[Ibn_Sina]

I'm questioning this equation: "Holocaust has to equal to 6 Million", not the fact that Jews experienced genocide.

[Mia]

I don't think it has to be 6 million - but to put it at a few hundred thousand? That qualifies as holocaust denial.

[Ibn_Sina]

I also didn't say it HAS TO BE few hundred thousands. It's a mere possibility since nobody knows the exact number, as Mahmoud Abbas pointed out.

[Mia]

OK, well, regarding all of the research, and the various numbers stated, most of which fall closer to the 6,000,000 mark, what do you think the truth is?

Is it just a coincidence that Arab/Muslim people tend to want to put the number as small as possible? Seems like there is an agenda there, no?

[billybobama]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina I'm questioning this equation: "Holocaust has to equal to 6 Million", not the fact that Jews experienced genocide.

Collier's Encyclopedia - 1958 - "A mid-century census would have to subtract 6,000,000 European Jews believed to have been killed by the Nazis."

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: Mia Is it just a coincidence that Arab/Muslim people tend to want to put the number as small as possible? Seems like there is an agenda there, no?

No, David Irving, Harry Elmer Barnes, Bradley Smith, James Keegstra are not Arab/Muslim.

[billybobama]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina No, David Irving, Harry Elmer Barnes, Bradley Smith, James Keegstra are not Arab/Muslim.

It is just a lot easier to run that mouth and make crap up, rather than do some real research and quote reputable sources.

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: billybobama It is just a lot easier to run that mouth and make crap up, rather than do some real research and quote reputable sources.

Exactly, and researches would show that "Holocaust denial" is not an exclusively Muslim thing.

[billybobama]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Exactly, and researches would show that "Holocaust denial" is not an exclusively Muslim thing.

I am still waiting for any Holocaust denier to give any legitimate source for their arguments.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Exactly, and researches would show that "Holocaust denial" is not an exclusively Muslim thing.

REALLY, I would never have thought that. LOL, there are skin heads out there are also.

[GHook93]

Quote by: billybobama I am still waiting for any Holocaust denier to give any legitimate source for their arguments.

That has been over and done with on volconvo. A self-proclaimed skin-head- Scrappy- came here and stated it was a hoax. Basically arguing with holocaust deniers get way too exhausting. They hadn't listen to reason in the first place, what will make them listen to reason now? You will get guys like this chump Scrappy, who will come up with not ever good make believe bullshit.

I would say leave it to rest and talk about Syria and make a mental note of Ibn's creditability.

[Mia]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina No, David Irving, Harry Elmer Barnes, Bradley Smith, James Keegstra are not Arab/Muslim.

I didn't say only Arab/Muslim people......all anti-semites do too. I said it just so happens that Arabs/Muslims always seem to agree with the lowest possible number, and obviously that reflects a bias.

[rmnunez]

The Kurds in Iraq seem to be doing pretty good, I wonder whether well enough to lend a hand.