Why we MUST continue to fight in Iraq.

[saif]

America has reached its boiling point. The escalation of chaos and terror in the Middle East as well as across the globe acting in concert with the inability to strategically undermine the “will” of the insurgency has resulted in Americans to lose their “will” to continue the fight. The idea of troop withdraw has gained more popularity with each new report of American loss of life. As an American as well as a practicing Muslim, I fully understand the significance that troop withdraw from Iraq promises…

If we withdraw from Iraq - we can expect far worse tribal chaos and Islamic terrorism than in Mogadishu or Lebanon.

If we withdraw from Iraq - we will alienate moderate arabs in the Middle East - who could never again believe in any American assurances of support for reform and would have to retreat into the shadows—or find themselves at the mercy of fascist killers.

If we withdraw from Iraq – the enemy will swell their ranks as they hype their defeat of the American infidels. Recruitment will accelerate across the globe.

If we withdraw from Iraq - any strategy of hitting terrorists hard abroad would be discredited and replaced by a return to the pre-9/11 tactics of a few cruise missiles and writs.

We must remember that the enemy has an eighth-century agenda of gender apartheid, religious intolerance, and theocracy. We only fool ourselves if we think that peace is the natural order of things and that it follows organically from the cessation of hostilities. We must finish this task regardless of how ugly and bloody it gets. We risk loosing more in the future then we have already lost to this point. Though we continue to sacrifice dearly, the peace of mind that we have been able to thwart any terrorist effort within the United States since 9/11 is proof that something is working. Obviously many of us can agree that this is not due to the diligence of our government to protect our borders and secure the homeland.

Development towards bringing peace to the Middle East hinges on continued American resolve in Iraq as well as our ability to address the situation in Palestine. There has not been any other world leader who has stepped up to combat these issues outside of their own Country. Of course the administration must account to the American people for the way this war has been waged as well as the false pre-tenses that initiated this conflict in the first place. The administration must also be held account for the manipulation of executive powers which have only led to the increased distrust of the federal government. We must try and repair the wounds that we have caused with our allies around the world, as well as encourage them to increase their presence in the Iraq conflict. This will allow the U.S. to withdraw a large amount of its military presence in Iraq and put forth to the terrorists a global unified front. America must not carry the flag of freedom and liberty alone. This is a failed strategy and we must work hand in hand with other powers to ensure the life and safety of individuals across the globe. We must find a new global strategy to combat terrorism that is no longer lying dormant in our cities and villages. If we fail to do so, we risk losing more of our unique freedoms and liberties that make America what it is.

Quote by: saif America must not carry the flag of freedom and liberty alone.

For the record, in its foreign policy, America has never carried the flag of freedom and liberty except as propaganda. America happily makes common cause with brutal dictatorships. China, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia come to mind. If you recall, Saudi Arabia was the country of origin of the 9/11 hijackers, not Iraq. Pakistan is giving safe-haven to the Taliban and has perpetrated the spread of WMD.

Even domestically, it's doubtful whether America "carries the flag of freedom and liberty."

Regards
s.

[Ken Carman]

If we withdraw from Iraq - we can expect far worse tribal chaos and Islamic terrorism than in Mogadishu or Lebanon.

We can expect this anyway.

If we withdraw from Iraq - we will alienate moderate arabs in the Middle East - who could never again believe in any American assurances of support for reform and would have to retreat into the shadows—or find themselves at the mercy of fascist killers.

We are doing this anyway.

If we withdraw from Iraq – the enemy will swell their ranks as they hype their defeat of the American infidels. Recruitment will accelerate across the globe.

This is happening anyway

If we withdraw from Iraq - any strategy of hitting terrorists hard abroad would be discredited and replaced by a return to the pre-9/11 tactics of a few cruise missiles and writs.

Same. Bush's prison scandals, and the fact we skewed towards Iraq rather than finding and bringing to trial those who actually attacked us: especially the tall guy, has done that anyway... if not more so.

We must remember that the enemy has an eighth-century agenda of gender apartheid, religious intolerance, and theocracy.

Sounds like where we're headed right here in the good old US of A. Goodie. We can be locked in even more bloody battles inspired by theocrats and not so fun Fundies.

We only fool ourselves if we think that peace is the natural order of things and that it follows organically from the cessation of hostilities

.


Neither "peace" or "war" are natural or unnatural. They just are. What the hell is it with "natural" on this site? Never really defined and always used as a positive. "Natural" is neither always good, bad or something to admire. It just is. Indeed, on this planet, we have been locked into a period that might be viewed as "unnatural." Both climate and upheavals of a "natural" sort (earthquakes, volcanos...(hell include meteors hitting if you wish) on a larger scale have been plentiful over the history of this planet. But we have been living in a rather peaceful period: temps about right (so far)... etc. I hope that's not what some mean when they promote "natural" as "good," and therefore "unnatural" as "bad."

We must finish this task regardless of how ugly and bloody it gets.

And when will that begin? Certainly not with these guys in control. We could have taken out the Taliban totally... nope, back and just as bad. We could have cut the literal head off the gang that attacked us. Nah, let's hand it over to handjobs-Warlords who are in bed with Binny boy. Yup, I'm impressed... not.

We risk losing more in the future then we have already lost to this point. Though we continue to sacrifice dearly, the peace of mind that we have been able to thwart any terrorist effort within the United States since 9/11 is proof that something is working.

Yes, Bush hasn't handed another load of cash over to a group like the Taliban that gives support to those who want to attack us like he did when they visited him in Texas previous to 9/11.

(Don't like that link to paying off the Taliban who buddied up with Binny? How about the Cato Institute?)

Obviously many of us can agree that this is not due to the diligence of our government to protect our borders and secure the homeland.

Yes, or our ports. Once again, with this gang of Keystone Cops at the wheel...

Development towards bringing peace to the Middle East hinges on continued American resolve in Iraq as well as our ability to address the situation in Palestine.

Yes to the second, no to the first. As long as we're there there's an endless supply of occupation inspired folks willing to turn the ME even more bloody. WHEEEE! Isn't this fun? Creating more chaos to win elections by scaring people into submission. Hopefully that has ended in its affect, of course they have just started to ramp up the "they're going to attack us again" ganda'. Never guess what? If they do, then it only proves that it hasn't been a success and makes one wonder even more if such predictions that have been used, over and over again, mean they did have something to do with it either by omission or actual payola.

There has not been any other world leader who has stepped up to combat these issues outside of their own Country..

George Bush would have "stepped up" if he had insisted on completely funding the troops, gone to at least a few funerals, made sure wounded vets were taken care of, taken the heat for the pictures of coffins coming back instead of having the taking of such pictures banned, given them the right resources and not fired every general who dared to disagree with his based Neo-Con assessments. But, as usual, he cowered and refused to take responsibilty for his own failures. And like every bully he let his underlings destroy a woman's work and the terrorist fighting CIA front B&J company because her husband didn't regurgitate his lies as truths.

Of course the administration must account to the American people for the way this war has been waged as well as the false pre-tenses that initiated this conflict in the first place

Please tell me when we are really going to insist on that. I'm waiting. I'm still waiting.

The administration must also be held account for the manipulation of executive powers which have only led to the increased distrust of the federal government.

Thank you, but I'm still waiting. This isn't going to be another "blame Bill Clinton" moment, is it?

We must try and repair the wounds that we have caused with our allies around the world, as well as encourage them to increase their presence in the Iraq conflict.

Good luck with that one. In this case the passengers, disgusted, have left the ship leaving it to the rats... and I don't mean the soldiers.



The rest is kind of blather, to be honest, but only because of the problems with what was typed before.

Now, after all that, I actually think just pulling out may not be a great solution, to put it as gently as I can. Yes, it would cause problems. A suggestion has been made recently that we should pull back and man the borders. (Or woman if you wish. Hey, an army of Lesbians! Damn, that would be a tough bunch of roughnecks! Certainly more effective than all those pansies who think even having a Gay in their unit means they won't be able to do their duty. Jeez, whata buncha wimpy losers they are.) ... Refuse entry to all who shouldn't be there. Kick out the corrupt Blackwater/Halliburton types. Any nation that relies on pay as you go armies of mercenaries, and no bid contract creeps who enrich those who send them there, has a :rolleyes:severe morality problem. Let Iraqis, after 5 years, step up to the plate. If it all goes south, maybe we could step back in. Maybe not.

[saif]

Quote by: Ken Carman Now, after all that, I actually think just pulling out may not be a great solution, to put it as gently as I can. Yes, it would cause problems.

It is quite obvious that you are upset more with the Bush Administration, which I grant is valid, and less concerned with actually progressing in Iraq. Although It sounds as if you may be realizing that we have more then a "quagmire" in our midst, I emplore you to take a stand on the issue rather then cast blame like most of our elected officials. As a Nation we must not repeatedly continue to let the blame game (aka politics as usual) to distract our focus from the vital perdicament that we are in today.

[The Decider]

Quote by: saif America has reached its boiling point. The escalation of chaos and terror in the Middle East as well as across the globe acting in concert with the inability to strategically undermine the “will” of the insurgency has resulted in Americans to lose their “will” to continue the fight. The idea of troop withdraw has gained more popularity with each new report of American loss of life. As an American as well as a practicing Muslim, I fully understand the significance that troop withdraw from Iraq promises… If we withdraw from Iraq - we can expect far worse tribal chaos and Islamic terrorism than in Mogadishu or Lebanon.

Amazing. The Iraqi Parliament just voted to take a month long vacation and you want more American soldiers to die for them? The current prime minister, Maliki, said just today that if America leaves, the Iraqis will manage without us. And you counsel stay the course?

Iraqi PM: Peace is possible without U.S. - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

FOXNews.com - Against Administration's Hopes, Iraqi Parliament to Take August Off - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

Enough. The time for debate is OVER. American voters--70% of them who oppose this shameful war--will do their civic duty and work to bring the soldiers home--whether they want to come home or not, whether you want them home or not. Persuasion is no longer possible, only raw political power and the nightly/weekly horrors from Iraq on our TV screens.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: saif It is quite obvious that you are upset more with the Bush Administration, which I grant is valid, and less concerned with actually progressing in Iraq. Although It sounds as if you may be realizing that we have more then a "quagmire" in our midst, I emplore you to take a stand on the issue rather then cast blame like most of our elected officials. As a Nation we must not repeatedly continue to let the blame game (aka politics as usual) to distract our focus from the vital perdicament that we are in today.

Blame is part of the process. If you're on a ship headed for the rocks, the captain and his mates demand we keep going, you can't just shrug off blame. I've also noticed the right has no problem with blame when it comes to such things when it's not on their watch but far less crucial. (Yes, I do mean blowjobs and not being forthcoming... ah, what a pun... when testifying.) I just love the "blame game" reference. Tell you what. As soon as those in charge admit their guilt and stop insisting on "stay the course," no matter what BS phrase they use these days for the same old, same old, may we can do that. Maybe when Hannity, O'Reilly and the shills they own stop trying to blame the Left with their "blame game..." Maybe.

Here is what so many, not specifically you, people ask when they throw out that phrase, "Please stop blaming us. Stop it. But we'll blame you." It's basically another version of, "Shut up while I hit you some more."

I understand, however. I do wish we had a less yellow journalism, WWF-type environment right now. But that's not what we have and wishing doesn't make it that way. Maybe we should start by insisting all those programs be taken off the airwaves? Ah, but then there's freedom of speech...

Rational discussion and respectful dialogue can't start with just one side. It must be both.

Good luck with that. As sarcastic as that last statement may be, I really do wish there was a chance in HELL...

Maybe when we finally beat each other senseless and the public gets damn tired of it?

Once again, I'm waiting. Wait... no I'm not. Probably not in my lifetime. Extreme political fighting is just too much like feeding Christians to the lions for the public to give up its fix.

Damn, I wish what you suggest were possible...

[saif]

Ken, I can honestly say that the political rhetoric that has been shuffled endlessly as some form of "I told you so" from the democrats and "fear mongering" from Republicans must cease with them. I do not intend to extend their idiocracy to Volconvo for some type of debate. I would much rather see a progressive effort to re-arrange our priorities as well as our strategic efforts in Iraq to make the best of the situation that we are now facing. We need answers here, answers that have yet to be put forth in a constructive manner so that we can truly weigh out our options..

[sevendogs]

The tribal haos is there now. Bush is a misfit to be Commander in Chief. He has too little brain power and education. Unfortunately American conservatives elected him for two terms! Now, the sooner we quit, the better. This is the end of America conservatism. Iraqis will solve their problems. We will focus on Alquaeda.

[saif]

Quote by: sevendogs The tribal haos is there now. Bush is a misfit to be Commander in Chief. He has too little brain power and education. Unfortunately American conservatives elected him for two terms! Now, the sooner we quit, the better. This is the end of America conservatism. Iraqis will solve their problems. We will focus on Alquaeda.

Darp! I was going to quote each line as they are all worthy so instead Ill just quote the whole passage.
1.) Tribal chaos is far from there now. What is there now is a force with more resolve, dedication and ingenuity then us. The fight they have brought to us is house to house guerilla warfae and not some "I'll raise my white flag Gulf War Iraqi. If we withdraw, there will be even greater slaughtering then what happens on a day to day basis.
2.) Regarding your Bush statements: He is not completely retarded, but he has allowed those "neo conservatives" such as cheney, wolfowitz and others to hijack his presidency, conspire to exault the executive branch over the judicial and legislative, and together have raped this Country of its Pride and Brave soldiers.
3.) It really wasnt the conservatives that elected Bush as he is far from conservative. Bush was elected by fundamentalist Christians.
4.) This will probably not be ther end of conservatism, more then likely a republican conservative will be elected to office. Please feel free to save this post and check back after the election..
5.) Im not sure how to respond to this as it seems that it is more of a slogan or something but I am curious as to some real suggestions as to how you plan to do that.. that is, focusing in on al-qaida (there are no "E"s in Arabic.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: saif America has reached its boiling point. The escalation of chaos and terror in the Middle East as well as across the globe acting in concert with the inability to strategically undermine the “will” of the insurgency has resulted in Americans to lose their “will” to continue the fight. The idea of troop withdraw has gained more popularity with each new report of American loss of life. As an American as well as a practicing Muslim, I fully understand the significance that troop withdraw from Iraq promises…

So you're advocating staying in Iraq until we achieve "victory"? Has "victory" been defined yet? Will that be when we have an Iraqi government that can stand on it's own, or when we have an Iraqi government that the U.S. approves of that can stand on it's own?

Why do you assume that it's an American loss of "will" that is fueling the drive to bring our troops home? Perhaps it's merely the becoming-more-clear-everyday perception that we can't win instead. Accepting reality and knowing when to quit is NOT the same as a loss of will.

[saif]

Quote by: Zeebadee So you're advocating staying in Iraq until we achieve "victory"? Has "victory" been defined yet? Will that be when we have an Iraqi government that can stand on it's own, or when we have an Iraqi government that the U.S. approves of that can stand on it's own? Why do you assume that it's an American loss of "will" that is fueling the drive to bring our troops home? Perhaps it's merely the becoming-more-clear-everyday perception that we can't win instead. Accepting reality and knowing when to quit is NOT the same as a loss of will.

What I am advocating is that we do not fully withdraw and throw in the towel, hoping that something positive blooms from chaos or allowing these same terrorists room and reason to grow unobstructed. and obviously, dropping bombs on terrorist camps hoping to eliminate them has never been very effective. I have understood since the beginning of the Iraq War that this was not the correct move for our Country. Understandably the ill feelings that brings forth can easily sway someone to say "Why are we there?" "what sense does it make to stay there since it was just some devious plot by some power hungry politicians" "what good can come of it" those are all valid, questions. You can check any of my posts that I have made over the past 4 -5 years (whether here or in my blog at my site) and you will see that I have yet to support the foundation and basis of this war. However, if you had to just erase everything up to this date and had to re-examine what the best options were at this very point. Like me, I believe you will find that complete withdraw is a futile desicion.

So then what do we do? the great continental divide debate?

I dont think we need to define victory in order to continue to confront these terrorists on there home turf. If we just withdraw, the images of Iraq that you are now so commonly used to on the news will actually be occuring right in your back yards. the only positive thing about complete withdrawl is the fact that we will be needing our troops at home when a dirty bomb or other great massacre happens in our back yards so we can then go into marshall law - much like Iraq. But I recognize that we must now emplore those around the world to step up in concert with us to put the pressure upon them. In turn that means then we could be able to bring a large portion of our troops home while securing our own borders. By not carrying the brunt for safety around the world alone upon our shoulders, we will be able to cut back our spending. Is there not a motivating reason for countries around the world to put forth more effort to try and eliminate this global threat. Isnt that the Victory.

As far as how to do that? Perhaps we should impeach both the president and vice president for the treachery that they have caused. This would show are allies that we do not condone the actions that have occured (which shunned them away from this endeavor in the first place.). Furthermore, we will then be able to take back all of those new executive powers that the white house has created giving us some of our basic civil liberties back.

Quote by: Zeebadee Why do you assume that it's an American loss of "will" that is fueling the drive to bring our troops home?

It isnt that difficult to tell if you did a little research.

[tinybear]

Quote by: sdbest For the record, in its foreign policy, America has never carried the flag of freedom and liberty except as propaganda. America happily makes common cause with brutal dictatorships. China, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia come to mind. If you recall, Saudi Arabia was the country of origin of the 9/11 hijackers, not Iraq. Pakistan is giving safe-haven to the Taliban and has perpetrated the spread of WMD. Even domestically, it's doubtful whether America "carries the flag of freedom and liberty." Regards s.

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

----President John F. Kennedy----

[saif]

Quote by: tinybear "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." ----President John F. Kennedy----

What a great post! :)

[Jack]

We must finish this task regardless of how ugly and bloody it gets.

I'm not sure the troops who are getting bloodied would fully support this concept without a clear and coherent plan in place to "finish this task". Specific solutions ought to be put forth, not just more rhetoric.

I dont think we need to define victory in order to continue to confront these terrorists on there home turf.

Without clearly enunciated goals, how can you determine if and when we "win"? How do you eliminate a decentralized, grass-roots threat? How do we target a military that isn't uniformed and so easily blends in with the local citizenry? How do we destroy an enemy that doesn't have fixed headquarters or front lines? How can we ever hope to rid the world of a philosophy?

But I recognize that we must now emplore those around the world to step up in concert with us to put the pressure upon them.

Since they've been reluctant to do so up until now, what new motivation would you suggest to encourage them to do so in the future? Why should they make their own countries targets for our sake?

As far as how to do that? Perhaps we should impeach both the president and vice president for the treachery that they have caused. This would show are allies that we do not condone the actions that have occured (which shunned them away from this endeavor in the first place.). Furthermore, we will then be able to take back all of those new executive powers that the white house has created giving us some of our basic civil liberties back.

Bush's approval ratings could be in the single digits and I'm willing to bet you won't get an overwhelming majority of the House, Senate or the American people to push for impeachment this close to the end of his elected term. And I doubt even criminal prosecution after he leaves office would impress other nations enough to make them change course and decide to support our war.

Staying the course is simply foolish, and deadly to our military, if you cannot outline in detail what that course will be.

[Praxius]

Sorry but spouting off patriotic heroic quotes doesn't cloud the reality..... perhaps those in the US, but there's a worse reality out there....

While I admire your faith in trying to look for a positive outlook on a situation that was rotten from the begining, continuing with this solid "Stay the course, or we'll look like fools in front of them" attitude will be the death of your country....

The more troops you send over there, the longer you keep them there, the worse you're gonna get when it's too late.... what I mean by that is this is exactly what they want you to do..... keep sending your troops.

The more troops you send, the more they kill, they will keep coming, and their recuitment is very close in proximity, and as you said, their mission has been going on for centuries..... what makes you think sending a couple 10x K + of troops for two or three years was going to stop it? What made you think this war would have been over in a couple of years? That's just blaitent nativity.

The British Empire, when they planned to occupy or take a country, they planned for occupation for around 100 years and hundreds of thousands of troops to keep the country in order..... you guys sent a boot squad and thought it'd be done in a weekend in comparison..... You guys bit off more then you could chew and your country doesn't have the experience to try such a feat alone...... you're still a young country, such as we are.

As long as you guys are sending the majority of your troops over across the globe to fight a war you can not win alone, you're troops will continue to be cut down, until your funds are almost exausted, your recruitment is not meeting up to the demand, and your military within the next few more years will be deminished very badly..... leaving you guys with two options:

#1 - Become extremely vulnerable at home land from more attacks by terrorists and become crippled from the inside out, which is what stratigy I would use..... or.....

#2 - Exausting your countries wealth to meet the demand of more troops and police for home land security, devistating what little funding is going towards everyday life is left. Quality of life would be worse, personal freedom will be lost, and crime will rise. Gradually within a decade or so, the country will have degraded so badly it would only be a shell of it's former self.

Staying the course and trying to not look like you guys screwed up isn't going to work, and will be the death of your country one way or another. You guys screwed up in Veitnam, but you guys lived on...... because eventually you knew when to quit.

The only option I see is to do what most are saying, and pull your ass out of there..... the government is going to be crushed one way or another.... whether your troops are in the way or not. They will indeed be coming in force to your country, and probably my own.... which is why it would be smart to bring your troops home and try and restratigize before you're reduced too much.

This war is going to be going on now for a few decades now.... the wheel is turning.... what's going on in Iraq is just a small chapter in what's coming....

Saying that while you're fighting there it's keeping them off your land, is a fools paradise.... and not a pretty one at that. They're building up more and more.... the longer you stay there, the more begin to hate you. The more they kill of you and the more you feed them, the more training they get on your tactics..... the more people will joing just to shoot some infedels.

It doesn't matter if you say that while you're fighting there they're not in the country.... regardless if they were in your country or in Iraq, they're getting exactly what they want...... pepople from the US to kill and they're still doing it. Just draining your resources with no goal or end in site. And they don't even have to fly over to the US anymore to do this.... you're delivering them over to Iraq.... which is kinda ironic, since you guys put all that security on planes now, they don't even have to come to the US at this point to do what they want.... you're doing it for them.

Terrorism as you guys like to call it, is not like typical fighting, and modifying slightly your tactics to fight it is not going to work.... you've adjusted to urban combat, but like what they do in retreating and coming back with more force and new tactics, so should you guys......

This holier then thou, we're the great patriot empire attitude is what made Britian loose against you guys, and now you're doing the same thing..... they kept their tactics, you guys made new ones.... you guys didn't form up to fight straight on, you used militia style and gurilla style fighting, and it worked..... you also knew when to pull out of the fight against them.

Now here you guys are thinking you're the supirior force with all the technology to back you up as an unstoppable force..... but you're up against a force that won't fight like you will.... they're not as organized or respectable as you guys are. Yet they're kicking your ass..... just like you guys kicked the British's asses.

You gotta look into your own history to get out of this one.

History will repeat itself until we learn from our past mistakes.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: saif It isnt that difficult to tell if you did a little research.

Yeah, sure, it's so easy that you didn't answer the question.

What do we get if we "win" in Iraq? Has bush ever told us? What do we get for the billions of dollars that we spent, the tens of thousands of lives, and the loss of our moral standing? How many proud parents will stand up and say their kid died to free Fallujah?

If I go into a store to buy something, and it costs more than I think it's worth, is it a loss of will if I don't buy it, or is it merely not worth what it costs? What are we gonna get from this asinine war that could possibly be worth what it's already cost us? And you're advocating that we stay and continue to pay?? Then define for me exactly what you expect the payoff to be.

Quote by: tinybear "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." ----President John F. Kennedy----

I don't think Kennedy ever suspected that the most serious threat to the success of liberty would come from our very own executive branch.

[Praxius]

Oh yeah, above I mentioned that there is no chance in hell for you guys to win in Iraq alone..... so I imagine someone's response here would be to solve that by trying to get other countries in there to help out.......

For those who think that....... get it out of your head, because there's no way in high stinking heaven any country's gonna step in Iraq now.... Not since we all found that the sole reasons of the invasion in the first place were a fraud, that Saddam never had WOMD, that you're in there for oil and you guys thought it'd be a simple mission.....

Yeah, sure there's thousands of poeple dieing every year there...... guess who's fault that is? Guess who didn't listen to the UN when they clearly told you guys that this wasn't just a bad idea, but the reasons provided by your government were not strong enough (Satalite photos of roofs is not proof of WOMD)

No other country is going to jump in there and help you.... you guys made this bed, now you either lie in it, or you pull the hell out.... those seem to be the only two logical answers...... and neither are good ones.

What do you expect to happen?

"Oh hi Mr. UN..... I know we didn't listen to you before, and now we're kinda in a pickle.... could you guys give us a hand and try and fix our mess? No? Oh ok then....."

Then you go knocking door to door like mormons to other countries trying to beg for assistance.....

Oh wait, you won't beg.... you'll try and threaten some financial loss or restrictions.... perhaps even go as far as something like the French Fry incident.

I have no sympathy for this war, I never had it before when the talk of invasion began..... I knew it was a scam then, I know it's still a scam now. You guys removed the only factor there that kept control over things to a certain degree, and now you kicked the bee's nest, and the bee keeper just was executed.... have fun.

[saif]

Quote by: Zeebadee Yeah, sure, it's so easy that you didn't answer the question.

All you have to do is look at the polls to extract that information. take a look for yourself at all the Iraq Polls..

the real question is will they have the "Will" to pull-out knowing that things can ONLY get worse!

You have all demanded that we pull out however, the majority of Americans still feel that we should not! How do you explain this?

"More specifically, do you think that we should have an immediate and orderly withdrawal of all troops from Iraq, or not?

Should Should Not