Israel: The Most Racist Illegal Nation.

[Deadeye]

Hey Bob652 I've got a great idea.

Here's what we do. First we round up all of the Jews that we can find anywhere and everywhere. Then we build these huge camps and lock'em in there. We don't bother to feed them. Then as they die off we burn up the bodies. The ones that don't starve we round up and put in these huge gas chambers and gas'em. Neat eh? It's been done before, and it works fine. Trouble is of course, those damn Jews breed like rats, and it's time to do it all over again. What do you think?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Deadeye Not only do they have nukes, but they also have the means to deliver them accurately. Not only that they have had this capability for decades now. What you fail to comprehend is that the Arab nations are at no risk from Israel as long as they leave Israel alone. The Israelies want peace. They know there's no future in war. As far as I can tell the Arab World is unified in their desire to wipe Israel off of the map. Don't you agree?

I 100% agree with that. If the Arabs had nukes they would have nuked Israel a while ago. Yet Israel has had nukes for decades and has never been close to using them!

[Bob652]

Quote by: Deadeye Hey Bob652 I've got a great idea. Here's what we do. First we round up all of the Jews that we can find anywhere and everywhere. Then we build these huge camps and lock'em in there. We don't bother to feed them. Then as they die off we burn up the bodies. The ones that don't starve we round up and put in these huge gas chambers and gas'em. Neat eh? It's been done before, and it works fine. Trouble is of course, those damn Jews breed like rats, and it's time to do it all over again. What do you think?

Might as wee include all the Chinese because of Mao, and the Russians because of Lenin and Stalin, and all those who managed to survive the Pol Pot etc etc etc. After we've already milked the Nazi tragedy for all it's worth for over 60 years. ( Don't forget the Balkans)It's about time we destroy another population to make room for former victims.. Maybe you'd like to displace or ethnically cleanse southern Africa or Australia, or New Zealand, to make room for other Asian and European victims. Or better yet, maybe you'd like to donate you home and possessions or the lives of you loved ones for the great and meritorious cause of providing for victims of government tyranny. I would sure be impressed to see that kind of deep conviction from you. You would be a"deadeye" hero in my book.
In fact, you might even considerreplacing the money that I work my ass of for that is sent to the Zionists in occupied Israel.
Man What a guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Decider]

Quote by: Deadeye Oh, Henry you make my tired. It's the Arab world that attacked Israel as soon as they became a state, and the attacks have been never ending. Sure some Arabs nations have figured that it's not to their advantage to fight the Jews, and they, such as Egypt and Jordan have sighed treaties. Since those treaties have been in place they have not been threatened by Israel.

Exactly, and the existence of those peace treaties means your claim of "Arab unity" in the destruction of Israel is today false. Patrick Henry 1, Deadeye 0.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: phoenix_fire radical Muslims throughout the ME say daily how they want to wipe Israel off the map. Many of them would like to come over here next. And yet Israel does not at all make these kind of overtures toward world conquest. They seem merely to want their right to exist.

Exist in their warplanes above their neighbor's nations, huh?
Kuna site|Story page|Four Israeli warplanes violate Lebanese airspace ...9/12/2007

If you are educated enough to comprehend the word radical, then maybe you understand that there are moderates and radicals on both sides of the Israel/Arab conflict.

Should I exhibit the quotes from radical Israelis saying that they want to wipe out all the Arabs, that they are nothing but dogs?

Hmm...How about this phoenix...a little before your time I know. But the principles still apply to the Israeli regime?
Electronic Lebanon: After 25 years, who remembers?

I regret to report that all those who perpetrated the massacre at Sabra-Shatila escaped justice. None of the hundreds of Phalange and Haddad militia who carried out the slaughter were ever punished. In fact, they got a blanket amnesty from the Lebanese government. As for the main organizers and facilitators, their massacre at Sabra-Shatila turned out to be excellent career moves for virtually all of them. Ariel Sharon resigned as Minister of Defense but retained his cabinet position in Menachem Begin's government and over the next 16 years held four more ministerial posts, including that of Foreign Minister, before becoming Prime Minister in February 2001. Following the 2002 Jenin rampage, US President Geroge W. Bush anointed him "a man of peace." Rafael Eitan, Israeli Chief of Staff, who shared Sharon's decision to send in the Phalange killers and helped direct the operation, was elected to the Knesset as leader of the small ultra right-wing party Tzomet. In 1984 he was named Agriculture Minister and Deputy Prime Minister in 1996. He currently serves as head of Tzomet and is jockeying for another cabinet position in the next government. Major-General Yehoshua Saguy, Army Chief of Intelligence, found by the Kahan Commission to have made "extremely serious omissions" in handling the Sabra-Shatila affair, later became a right-wing member of the Knesset and is now mayor of the ultra-rightist community of Bat-Yam, a little town near Tel Aviv. Major-General Amir Drori, Chief of Israel's Northern Command, found not to have done enough to stop the massacre, a "breach of duty," was recently named as head of the Israeli Antiquities Commission. Brigadier-General Amos Yaron, the divisional commander whose troops sealed the camps to prevent victims from escaping and helped direct the operation along with Sharon and Eitan, was found to have "committed a breach of duty." He was immediately promoted Major-General and made head of manpower in the army, served as Director-General of the Israeli Defense Ministry and Military Attaches at the Israeli Embassy in Washington. He is currently working for various Israeli lobby groups as a scholar in "think thanks." Elie Hobeika, the Chief of Lebanese Forces Intelligence, who along with Sharon masterminded the actual massacre, fell out with the Phalange in 1980s under suspicion that he was involved in killing their leader, Bachir Gemayal. He defected to the Syrians, acquired three ministerial posts in post-civil war Lebanon governments, including Minister of the Displaced (many thought he know a lot about this subject) of Electricity and Water, and in 1996, Social Affairs. On 24 January 2002, twenty years after his involvement at Sabra-Shatila, he was blown up in a car bomb attack in East Beirut. Two of his associates also rumored to be planning to "come clean" regarding Sharon's role were assassinated in separate incidents. A few days before Hobeika's death he stated that he might reveal more about the massacre and those responsible and according to Beirut's Daily Star staff who interviewed him, Hobeika told them that his lawyers had copies of his files implicating Sharon in much more detail than had become public. These files are now is the possession of his son who following Sharon's death may release the files.

We can see how Israel punishes the murderous...not at all...

However, my biggest issues are with people who should know better, but keep on with the Zionist propaganda lies. People who have access to truth on various internet sites, but refuse to look because it doesn't fit with the propaganda they receive from their church or that holy oracle enshrined in their living room...

[aggressi0n]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Exist in their warplanes above their neighbor's nations, huh? Kuna site|Story page|Four Israeli warplanes violate Lebanese airspace ...9/12/2007 If you are educated enough to comprehend the word radical, then maybe you understand that there are moderates and radicals on both sides of the Israel/Arab conflict. Should I exhibit the quotes from radical Israelis saying that they want to wipe out all the Arabs, that they are nothing but dogs? Hmm...How about this phoenix...a little before your time I know. But the principles still apply to the Israeli regime? Electronic Lebanon: After 25 years, who remembers? We can see how Israel punishes the murderous...not at all... However, my biggest issues are with people who should know better, but keep on with the Zionist propaganda lies. People who have access to truth on various internet sites, but refuse to look because it doesn't fit with the propaganda they receive from their church or that holy oracle enshrined in their living room...

You have no sources and the 2nd thing is about Lebanon and has nothing to do with Israel. Also its a unproven story that they did it and if they did it, its totally justified because the PLO was doing it to Christians. Christians and Jews never can fight back without being condemned and were always called the aggressor even though Muslims started it.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: aggressi0n You have no sources

Hmmh. You must be literate since you can type and post. Does this mean you cannot see the source I posted? Do your eyes not register the red letters that indicate a link?

Quote by: aggressi0n and the 2nd thing is about Lebanon and has nothing to do with Israel.

Oh, maybe you're too young to remember the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Then you need to read your history sources, my little friend. Because the IDF was OCCUPYING Lebanon during the Sabra-Shatila mass murders. And they gave the Phalangist militia the go ahead and the coverup necessary for this atrocity. Maybe you didn't know but under international rules of war, an occupying nation's military is RESPONSIBLE for security in the nation they have siezed. That writes Israel's name in blood on this massacre.

Quote by: aggressi0n Also its a unproven story that they did it

No, you're mistaken. It is quite well proven. Even the Israelis know this. Where have you been? Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Events at the Refugee Camps in Beirut (Kahan Commision)

Quote by: aggressi0n and if they did it, its totally justified because the PLO was doing it to Christians.

You should substantiate this charge. I would like to see your attempt. C'mon, amuse me.

Quote by: aggressi0n Christians and Jews never can fight back without being condemned and were always called the aggressor even though Muslims started it.

Muslims started what? And bubba, this ain't a religious war. Its got a lot more rewarding stuff than religious zealotry...

[Nono]

Quote by: GHook Judaism makes it extremely hard to convert.

So you're saying there's a huge elitist Jewish conspiracy to keep the rest of the world perpetually fighting among themselves? What sort of Nazi anti-Semite are you anyway?

[Nono]

Quote by: Phoenix The Israelis are in the unenviable position of fighting conventionally against an enemy that uses terror in its cowardice.

Here's a question for you Ph: What would you call showering -- from the safety of supersonic fighter/bombers -- residential areas with cluster munitions, many of which kill innocent civilians outright and many of which fail to explode and just lie there waiting for some child to pick it up.

A bit of moral clarity is all I'm asking for here. And I'd appreciate a serious answer.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Bob652 Might as wee include all the Chinese because of Mao, and the Russians because of Lenin and Stalin, and all those who managed to survive the Pol Pot etc etc etc. After we've already milked the Nazi tragedy for all it's worth for over 60 years. ( Don't forget the Balkans)It's about time we destroy another population to make room for former victims.. Maybe you'd like to displace or ethnically cleanse southern Africa or Australia, or New Zealand, to make room for other Asian and European victims. Or better yet, maybe you'd like to donate you home and possessions or the lives of you loved ones for the great and meritorious cause of providing for victims of government tyranny. I would sure be impressed to see that kind of deep conviction from you. You would be a"deadeye" hero in my book. In fact, you might even considerreplacing the money that I work my ass of for that is sent to the Zionists in occupied Israel. Man What a guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except for the last sentence I didn't understand the gist your post. I support Zionism. If you could go back in time and see what the land that Israel occuppies now looked like before they took over you'd see a wasteland. Today it's a relative paradise. Arabs living in Israel have much better lives than those living outside that nation.

[shield772]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Israel with nukes is a scary prospect. That nation has no conscience...

When you are speaking about defending a nation having a conscience is not an issue, I have defended myself with the ultimate force the lethal kind and have no problems sleeping or moving on, same thing. Nukes are the scary prospect.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: shield772 When you are speaking about defending a nation having a conscience is not an issue, I have defended myself with the ultimate force the lethal kind and have no problems sleeping or moving on, same thing. Nukes are the scary prospect.

Indeed they are scary, and so they should be. They are a terrible weapon and in the hands of an crazed dictator a huge threat to World Peace. That's why I fear Iran having them. They have announced that they love death and believe that it's to their benefit to die if by that death they also destroy Israel.

Don't forget the Arab World is not threatened by the fact that Israel has the nuke, because she has had that weapon for decades and has not only not used it, but has not threatened to do so.

Iran is a different story. Least it'd be if we take them at their word.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Deadeye That's why I fear Iran having them. They have announced that they love death and believe that it's to their benefit to die if by that death they also destroy Israel.

Please substantiate this allegation.

[Bob652]

Quote by: Deadeye Except for the last sentence I didn't understand the gist your post. I support Zionism. If you could go back in time and see what the land that Israel occuppies now looked like before they took over you'd see a wasteland. Today it's a relative paradise. Arabs living in Israel have much better lives than those living outside that nation.

That is a complete fallacy.

How Palestine Became Israel's Land
Submitted by blackandred on Thu, 2007-05-03 20:21. Occupied Palestine | Imperialism | Land | Rights | History


Overview: Palestinian Internally Displaced Persons inside Israel - 15k
Internally displaced Palestinians inside Israel are part of the larger Palestinian refugee population that was displaced/expelled from their villages and homes during the 1948 conflict and war in Palestine. At the end of the war, some 150,000 Palestinians remained in the areas of Palestine that became the state of Israel. This included approximately 30-40,000 Palestinians who were also displaced during the war. Like the approximately 800,000 Palestinian refugees who were displaced/expelled beyond the borders of the new state, Israel refused to allow internally displaced Palestinians to return to their homes and village

Partition and Theft
How Palestine Became Israel's Land

By SONJA KARKAR; March 31 / April 1, 2007 - Counterpunch Weekend Edition
http://www.counterpunch.org/karkar03312007.

Many Palestinians lived in refugee camps in Lebanon, having been forced from their homes and lands in Palestine in the Zionist invasion and occupation of 1948, and denied their right to return to their homes ever since. These Palestinians, denied fundamental rights in Lebanon and determined to return to their homes in Palestine, organized within the camps, building their community and resistance organizations.

Today, Palestinian refugees continue to be denied their right to return to their homes and lands. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians live in Lebanon as refugees, continue to be denied civil and human rights in Lebanon, and continue to be prevented from returning to their homes in Palestine. They are prevented from returning home because they are Palestinian, and because the Zionist state that has occupied their land since 1948 - Israel - is determined to erase Palestinian existence, identity and self-determination from the land of Palestine in its quest for a racist "Jewish state" on Palestinian land.
Al-Awda New York is the local chapter of Al-Awda, The Palestine Right to Return ... the racist confiscation of land and the demolition of homes since 1948. ...
Al-Awda New York - 14k - Cached - Similar pag
Al-Awda New York - 14k

The Palestinian Exodus, 1948-1998 - by Ghada Karmi, Eugene Cotran - 272 pages
Palestinian Refugees - by Robert P. G. Bowker - 270 pages
The Palestine Yearbook of International Law ... - by Anis F. Kassim

Overview: Palestinian Internally Displaced Persons inside Israel - 15k

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Nono Here's a question for you Ph: What would you call showering -- from the safety of supersonic fighter/bombers -- residential areas with cluster munitions, many of which kill innocent civilians outright and many of which fail to explode and just lie there waiting for some child to pick it up.

I'm not saying that it's not a mess. It is a mess. I don't support the method in which the country came into being, although I can highly sympathize with the reason why. But the fact of the matter is that in this day and age, the nation exists and it is viable. It is also a nation under constant attack and threat of attack. If most western nations had to put up with everyday what Israel has to put up with, you can be sure that there would be some serious retribution.

I think that the incidental murder of civilians is horrible, as any normal thinking human being would. But consider this: the Palestinian forces of terror intentionally hide their bases in, under, and around schools, mosques, and other public places full of civilians and little children. They're using their own people as human shields. Israel is showered in rockets and other artillery, and they find that the source is covered in innocents. And the Palestinians know that they're in a win-win situation now. They know that Israel won't be able to utterly destroy their bases and numbers: that they'll hold back for the sake of the shields. And even if they do, or even if they try very carefully to not take out the noncombatants, they'll still take flak from the rest of the world for "showering residential areas". This is a cowardly tactic by the Palestinians.

And think about this too. While the Israelis attempt to face fighting a conventional war where the enemy uses their own as human shields, the enemy has in mind to intentionally destroy as many Israeli civilians as possible. That's why they send kids strapped up with C4 into busy markets, restaurants, buses, wedding parties, etc. They do such a mind job on these suicide bombers that they think they are serving the ultimate good when really they are just a tool of destruction, cowardice, and the worst kind of PR.

A bit of moral clarity is all I'm asking for here. And I'd appreciate a serious answer.

[The Decider]

Quote by: phoenix_fire And the Palestinians know that they're in a win-win situation now. They know that Israel won't be able to utterly destroy their bases and numbers: that they'll hold back for the sake of the shields. And even if they do, or even if they try very carefully to not take out the noncombatants, they'll still take flak from the rest of the world for "showering residential areas". This is a cowardly tactic by the Palestinians.

Win-win situation for the Palestinians? Have you ever seen pictures of Palestinian slums in Gaza and the West Bank and Beirut? What have the refugees and occupied settlements tangibly "won" exactly? Israel gets criticized but the Western world keeps trading with her. The Israeli economy is booming for a nation on war-footing 24/7.

The Palestinians practice urban guerrilla tactics out of weakness not strength. Look at any modern guerrilla war and you'll find suicide bombing, assassinations, kidnappings, and the like. We didn't mind those tactics when Afghan mujaheddin used them against Russian soldiers/civilians and Afghan civilians in Afghanistan. We barely cared when the Algerians did the same to the French colonists.

Quote by: phoenix_fire And think about this too. While the Israelis attempt to face fighting a conventional war where the enemy uses their own as human shields, the enemy has in mind to intentionally destroy as many Israeli civilians as possible.

Well, I'm sure if the Israelis offered to supply their opponents with advanced weaponry to engage a fair fight with the Israelis, the Palestinian guerrillas might accommodate the Israel battlefield rules. Until then, like it or not, the Palestinians will do what guerrillas do best--cause political, military, and humanitarian havoc. When the battle is unfair, don't be surprised when unfair battle follows. If you don't believe me, ask the French partisans who bombed civilian cafes owned by Vichy Frenchmen. Or the Algerian fighters who murdered French settler families. These kinds of wars are terrible.

[Nono]

Quote by: Phoenix I'm not saying that it's not a mess. It is a mess. I don't support the method in which the country came into being, although I can highly sympathize with the reason why. But the fact of the matter is that in this day and age, the nation exists and it is viable.

I'm with you up to here.

It is also a nation under constant attack and threat of attack.

Careful about exaggeration. Israel has by far the strongest armed forces in the region. How many Israeli civilians in Israel have been killed by the country's enemies in the past year? Any idea?

Yes, lots of people would like Israel to be under "constant attack". But it ain't. And where is there a credible threat?

he Palestinian forces of terror intentionally hide their bases in, under, and around schools, mosques, and other public places full of civilians and little children. They're using their own people as human shields. Israel is showered in rockets and other artillery, and they find that the source is covered in innocents.

Here you're confusing the Palestinians with Hezbollah. Check your facts. Palestinian "forces" don't add up to very much. As for "showering" Israel with rockets, a few piddling amateur rockets that rarely do any damage. Artillery? Could we have a source for that?

You're mixing up the occupied territories and Lebanon last summer. The Israelis claimed that Hezbollah was using its own people as human shields, but investigation by entirely credible bodies turned up virtually no evidence of this. Google lebanon"cluster munitions" -- just for example.

That's why they send kids strapped up with C4 into busy markets, restaurants, buses, wedding parties, etc.

It's awful and I'm not defending it. But you know what they say -- It's the weapon of the weak.
Anyway, when was the last time something like that happened? Can you tell me? Israel seems to be pretty well protected these days, yet it has racked up an impressive score of dead Palestinian and Lebanese civilians since anything like that happened. It's totally disproportionate.

Phoenix, I think you're emotions have caused you to mix up your facts into a stew that keeps your emotions going. Honestly.

Israel has to make a serious deal with the Palestinians -- land for peace.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Nono Here you're confusing the Palestinians with Hezbollah. Check your facts. Palestinian "forces" don't add up to very much. As for "showering" Israel with rockets, a few piddling amateur rockets that rarely do any damage. Artillery? Could we have a source for that?

I did say "of terror". Seriously, what do you expect them to do? The Palestinians aren't exactly helpless and huddled masses sitting passively while they're bombed to extinction. If they left well enough alone, do you think Israel would still go after them? Or is it because of the terror, do you think?

It's awful and I'm not defending it. But you know what they say -- It's the weapon of the weak.

I keep hearing that. But I can't help but think that the effect seems ill proportioned to the cause. With the energy and resources that these people expend fighting a war for slighted pride, they could have comfortably relocated in another Muslim country.

Phoenix, I think you're emotions have caused you to mix up your facts into a stew that keeps your emotions going. Honestly.

I tend, actually, to fall toward the middle on this one. I can see the fair and foul points of both sides. I just took a side for the purpose of the debate since when I started, it was overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian. And you know, you can't change horses in the middle of the Apocalypse.

Israel has to make a serious deal with the Palestinians -- land for peace.

I believe they have tried that.

[The Decider]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I keep hearing that. But I can't help but think that the effect seems ill proportioned to the cause. With the energy and resources that these people expend fighting a war for slighted pride, they could have comfortably relocated in another Muslim country. I can see the fair and foul points of both sides. I just took a side for the purpose of the debate since when I started, it was overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian. And you know, you can't change horses in the middle of the Apocalypse.

"Slighted pride?" Are you kidding or this part of your Devil's Advocate approach on this thread? If you're kidding, it's not very persuasive since the Palestinians lost land and people, not just pride. If you're not kidding, you should read the history of the conflict again. Either way, I have never seen the Palestinian cause reduced to "slighted pride," even by most conservative Israelis. Poor choice of words, IMO.

[phoenix_fire]

The bold and underline parts are of specific interest.

Hamas Charter (1988) The Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) “In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed, it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-doers. They will not harm you save a trifling hurt, and if they fight against you they will turn and flee. And afterward they will not be helped. Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save [where they grasp] a rope from Allah and a rope from man. They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the Prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress.” Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111 Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors. The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others. Introduction Grace to Allah, whose help we seek, whose forgiveness we beseech, whose guidance we implore and on whom we rely. We pray and bid peace upon the Messenger of Allah, his family, his companions, his followers and those who spread his message and followed his tradition; they will last as long as there exist Heaven and Earth. O, people! In the midst of misadventure, from the depth of suffering, from the believing hearts and purified arms; aware of our duty and in response to the decree of Allah, we direct our call, we rally together and join each other. We educate in the path of Allah and we make our firm determination prevail so as to take its proper role in life, to overcome all difficulties and to cross all hurdles. Hence our permanent state of preparedness and our readiness to sacrifice our souls and dearest [possessions] in the path of Allah. Thus, our nucleus has formed which chartered its way in the tempestuous ocean of creeds and hopes, desires and wishes, dangers and difficulties,