Israel: The Most Racist Illegal Nation.

[Nono]

Quote by: GHook What a nice stretch comparing the Jews to Hitler.

Just the sort of mindless reply I feared.
Wake up, sonny-boy, I said No Such Thing.
I said Hitler would have -- and did -- used the same argument as shrike: "It's ours anyway."
That statement is historical fact. And its use here is about shrike, not Jews in general.

So can your bullshit.
If you aren't prepared to read people's posts and understanding what they say, I don't see why you bother coming here.

[JBG]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Note that before the matter had even been investigated, these nice, moderate Muslims start saying automatically that it was a Jewish conspiracy. It's very convenient. *************** The last observation is that someone of this persuasion will always paint "Zionists" as a gripping, grasping, controlling, insidious, clutching, expansionist creature whose potential for world domination is to be feared and stopped while we still can. In other words, look for fear and paranoia. And that is how you find bias keywords in these sources. :)

Notice that some small state barely the size of New Jersey arouses such attention, hatred and paranoia?

[Gerry]

Thanks.
From what I have seen Shrike quotes Iraeli propaganda and because here in America we don;t know better it's accepted as truth. It's HIS truth. It's nothing whatsoever to do with reality as it as been playing out in the Middle East. A country doesn't 'collect' 88 U.N. Security council resolution condemning it for it's violence for nothing. Oppressed people do not turn to violence in a vaccuum. There is cause and effect.
If Israel wants peace, they know exactly what to do. Vacate illegally occupied Palestinian land and return to the 1967 borders, and officially accept Palestinians the right to exist, and make reparations for all the destruction of their infrastructure.(crimes against humanity) The key towards peace always rests in the hand of the occupier/oppressor, never its victim. Facts and statistics are very hard to twist. I have seen him twist 242 like a pretzel. I consider ideology a disease. In whatever form or color it presents itself.
Nationalism, or a greater "whatever" is another one that seeks war.
This warmongering and stealing of land needs to stop. And we, as Americans should not participate in it. Anytime we talk about Zionism we're attacked as being anti-semitic. It's been a very successful weapon to shut people up, but it no longer works.
Shrike has not made his case with me whatsoever. I get my sources elsewhere. And what in the world would posess Ilan Pappe to risk his professional integrity/career by lying about his own country? Does not make any sense.
ciao

[JBG]

Quote by: Gerry Thanks. From what I have seen Shrike quotes Iraeli propaganda and because here in America we don;t know better it's accepted as truth. It's HIS truth. It's nothing whatsoever to do with reality as it as been playing out in the Middle East. A country doesn't 'collect' 88 U.N. Security council resolution condemning it for it's violence for nothing. Oppressed people do not turn to violence in a vaccuum. There is cause and effect.

It collects 88 resolutions because of the one-sided nature of the debate. Where are the resolutions against the umpteen atrocities in Arab lands?

Quote by: Gerry If Israel wants peace, they know exactly what to do. Vacate illegally occupied Palestinian land and return to the 1967 borders, and officially accept Palestinians the right to exist, and make reparations for all the destruction of their infrastructure.(crimes against humanity) The key towards peace always rests in the hand of the occupier/oppressor, never its victim. Facts and statistics are very hard to twist. I have seen him twist 242 like a pretzel. I consider ideology a disease. In whatever form or color it presents itself.

And why then did the Jews have to flee the Arab lands they inhabited for centuries in 1948? Why couldn't Jews have what you are now asking for on behalf of the "Palestinians"? And while we're at it, why didn't the "Palestinians" get a West Bank and Gaza state during the period between May 1948 and June 1967?

Quote by: Gerry Nationalism, or a greater "whatever" is another one that seeks war. This warmongering and stealing of land needs to stop. And we, as Americans should not participate in it. Anytime we talk about Zionism we're attacked as being anti-semitic. It's been a very successful weapon to shut people up, but it no longer works.

I get it. Palestinian nationalism good, Zionist nationalism bad? Why can't the Jews, who have contributed immeasurably to the world good, have a state that's left in peace?

[Gerry]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Israel has, in the interest of a (vain) hope for better relations, shrunk its borders repeatedly. And I would further attribute any instability in the area to the fact that the nation is still fighting for its existence and is constantly being bombarded by terrorism and outside and internal forces, as opposed to some vague idea of covetousness.

Israel has, since 1947 expanded it's borders, engaged in landgrabbing and now claim 100% of Palestine whereas is was originally deeded far less. I'll get the numbers.

Palestine and Israel - Timeline

[GHook93]

Quote by: Gerry Shrike - I realise that I'm new here, but I have read some of your post which are not quite truthfull are they? 1. Here's the original U.N. partition of Israel and the rest was Palestinian/Arab land Palestine Center - The United Nations Partition Plan, 1947 Detail Map of UN Partition Plan for Palestine Majority Report- September 1947 See when the land grab started...BEFORE 1948!! At the same time Jordan took the West Bank! In 1948 Israel took West Jerusalem and Jordan E.Jerusalem. Israel stole FAR more land than the U.N. had partitioned them. History of Israel: 1947 UN Partition Proposal

Yet the Arabs didn't agree to the plan, so its moot. After the partition plan the Arabs attacked with a goal of finishing off what the Nazi's started. Mordern day discussions were not of the partition plan but of the 1967 borders.

In 1948 Egypt occupied the Gaza and Jordon the West Bank. They had no plans of giving these lands to the Palestinians. In fact they had a 20 year window of doing it, but never did. Yet you and most others will probably not fault these countries for this.

2. Israel engaged in an illegal pre-emptive war against Egypt/Jordan and Syria in 1967.

INCORRECT! All these countries that attacked in previous years and preached genocidial rhetoric against the Jews marched large armies up to the Israel's border. What do you expect a smaller country to do, when faced with annihilation? What for the multiple large countries to attack; in effect, giving the world the 2nd Holocaust?

The '67 war was 100% started by the Arabs!

T

hey stole the Sinai and GAZA from Egypt; the West bank from Jordan and the golan Heights from Syria. Israel has since then annexed the Golan Heights to Israel. It furthermore had NO intention of ever leaving either the West bank nor GAZA.

Get the facts right. Israel won the war, yet none of these defeated countries would come to the negotiation table. What did you expect them to do? When did they give Sinai back, when Egypt agreed to a peace deal.

And they left Gaza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What happened after that the terrorist used it as a launching pad for missile attacks.

U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, which demands that Israel withdraws from the territories gained by the recent conflict has been twisted and turned by Israel as if it meant that Israel was to vacate ALL the land it had illegally taken. That is not what 242 states. It very clearly states that Israel is to withdraw from territories it gained during the recent conflict.

Who gives a rats ass what the UN demands. The Arabs and Palestinians have never followed them. Look at Hezbollah today. They rearmed and never released the captured soldiers. After the war the Arabs still preached genocide to the Jews, yet the victors in the conflict should make the only concessions and the losers should do a damn thing. Great logic.

So any attempt to hijack it and make something else out of it, like that it is subject to peace for instance, is misleading and untrue. Combine that with the speed with which Israel has build settlements all around the West Bank it becomes clear to anyone that Israel had, despite all its so called peace talks, never any intention of giving up ONE inch of that territory.

Or if anyone of one instances believe that the Pals want peace is misleading and untrue itself. The Jews have made the first move which was to leave Gaza, since then the Pals haven't made one concession.

Not 1 inch? LAUGHABLE and untrue. Let's see:
(1) Sinai regardless of how it was acquired was given back for a peace deal. That one crack in your theory.
(2) During the Camp David accords the PLO were given 98% of the land they sought. Yet they turned it down and you say the Israelis aren't for peace. Ask the Native Americans how sweet a deal that would be.
(3) Gaza: They left Gaza and evacuted all the settlements. How is that not giving back any land.
(4) Now they are in discussions to give back all the lands dating back to 1967. Yet the Pals are instant on an unreasonable right to return. No country would let in millions of people would seek to destroy you. Yet people will twist this to racism. Pathetic.

And its about peace! If the Pals agree to peace and denounce terror they have a free independent Palestine, but Hamas refuses to do that. Look at Hamas charter for god sake. It says specifically in it that their goal is the destruction of Israel. Yet people expect them to negotiate with people who have a stated goal of killing you. That would be a smart move.

Dr. Menachem Klein, advisor to Ehud Barak during the last peace talks at Camp David with Pres Clinton, was asked on Dutch television whether Arafat was an obstacle to peace.

Great propaganda. They reason the shook hands is because they thought they had an agreement. Yet they turned down a deal for 98% of what they sought. No other way of twisting it without going down the anti-semitic stance of the Jews don't desire anything

After Isreali settlers were removed from Gaza last year, Israel suddenly started an illegal war with Lebanon.

Since you new the war was debated over and over again, so won't go into much detail here. HEZBOLLAH MADE A CROSS-BORDER ATTACK ON ISRAEL!!!! That is clear as day. On top of that they have shot numerous missile into Israel. While the response of Israel might have been harsh it was in response to an act of war by Hezbollah.

That took the attention away from Gaza which was hermetically closed of like a high security prison. Gaza has become a ghetto, a camp. And the situation is so dire that children are dying daily.

Hamas took over Gaza and then started firing daily missile attacks into Israel. They take a welcome gester and back-stab into it. Israel needs to worry about they security first, like every country needs to do.

And you way over-state the Gaza situation way over-state it. You over-state it so much you fall into the propaganda relm.

Israel is in violation of 88 U.N. Security Council Resolutions not including the 34 the U.S. vetoed. So, their PR is no longer working.

How many have the Arabs, Hezbollah, Iraqis, Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, Sudanese and Palestinians ignored. The door swings both ways my friend.

President Carter's book was far kinder than the Israelis deserve.

Carter was only in the top five of worst presidents ever. Some even mention him as the worst. So anything he did or said should be taken with a grain of salt.

I can recommend reading Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery two Israeli intellectuals in the peace movement.

Pappe is a self-hating Jew, He is not that much different that many of the self-hating Americans on the far left that state that the US government is responsible for 9/11!

European people are boycotting Israeli products and now the EU is considering banning ALL Israeli products until Israel withdraws from all the territories it took illegally in 1967.

Back up your points with facts my friend! :rolleyes: As of today its only some Brits that are doing this, while they even receive opposition from within their ranks.

Israel is required to acknowledge the Paelstinians right to exist, not the other way around. It has become quite clear to the whole world except Americans that Israel is wiping the Palestinians off the map.

NO, both groups are required to acknowledge the others right to exist. The door swings both ways. Don't hold Israel to a higher standard than the Palestinians and Arabs.

NOTE: My father was in the underground fighting the Nazis; my maternal grandparents had a safe house for Jews during WW2, .

You are not your father or your grandparents! Don't take credit for what they did (granted they do what you say they did - it could easy be a fabricated way for you to build your credibility - not saying that is the case though).

so any attempt to turn this into an anti Israel or anti Jewish situation safe your breath

Might not be how you want to be characterized but this is how it comes from the

The European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, a part of the Council of Europe,

"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed towards Jews and non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, towards Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."

The instruction attached some contemporary examples which "could, taking into account the overall context, include but are not limited to": (1) Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor; (2) [U]Applying double standards [/u]by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation; (3) Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis; (4) Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis; (5) Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.

New antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My 2 cents

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Gerry Thanks. From what I have seen Shrike quotes Iraeli propaganda and because here in America we don;t know better it's accepted as truth. It's HIS truth. It's nothing whatsoever to do with reality as it as been playing out in the Middle East. A country doesn't 'collect' 88 U.N. Security council resolution condemning it for it's violence for nothing. Oppressed people do not turn to violence in a vaccuum. There is cause and effect. If Israel wants peace, they know exactly what to do. Vacate illegally occupied Palestinian land and return to the 1967 borders, and officially accept Palestinians the right to exist, and make reparations for all the destruction of their infrastructure.(crimes against humanity) The key towards peace always rests in the hand of the occupier/oppressor, never its victim. Facts and statistics are very hard to twist. I have seen him twist 242 like a pretzel. I consider ideology a disease. In whatever form or color it presents itself. Nationalism, or a greater "whatever" is another one that seeks war. This warmongering and stealing of land needs to stop. And we, as Americans should not participate in it. Anytime we talk about Zionism we're attacked as being anti-semitic. It's been a very successful weapon to shut people up, but it no longer works. Shrike has not made his case with me whatsoever. I get my sources elsewhere. And what in the world would posess Ilan Pappe to risk his professional integrity/career by lying about his own country? Does not make any sense. ciao

Actually, it's the pro-Palestinians around here that I have seen posting propaganda, as I have repeatedly pointed out. Random blogs, art exhibits, and sites with names like "The Electronic Intifada" are hardly objective, ne?

[Gerry]

Yet the Arabs didn't agree to the plan, so its moot. After the partition plan the Arabs attacked with a goal of finishing off what the Nazi's started. Mordern day discussions were not of the partition plan but of the 1967 borders.

The notion that the Arabs had anything that could be construed as an army is absurd. They were slaughtered.!

In 1948 Egypt occupied the Gaza and Jordon the West Bank. They had no plans of giving these lands to the Palestinians. In fact they had a 20 year window of doing it, but never did. Yet you and most others will probably not fault these countries for this.

You're barking up the wrong tree here. The issue is not what the others did. Most of Jordan is Palestinian.. The notion that because the Arabs didn't agree to their territory being deeded to Israel in 1948 gives Israel the right to steal more land than was partitioned to them? In the face of naked aggression victimhood doesn't play well. The issue is what right does Israel have to the land. Don't start talking in circles. Israel does not belong in any place they illegally took in 1967 Period. You engage in upside down reasoning to me and ignore the 88 U.N. Security Council Resolutions condemning Israeli violence. That's the opinion of the international community and the U.N.

INCORRECT! All these countries that attacked in previous years and preached genocidial rhetoric against the Jews marched large armies up to the Israel's border. What do you expect a smaller country to do, when faced with annihilation? What for the multiple large countries to attack; in effect, giving the world the 2nd Holocaust? The '67 war was 100% started by the Arabs!

Not so, I know that's the official Israeli rhetoric but the truth is that No one attacked Israel. Israel engaged in an illegal pre-emptive strike. That is on all international records. Twisting to suit your purpose does nothing. The facts are known. Since 1948, the Israelis have done nothing but to ethnically cleanse the area of Palestinians. There was Israeli genocide against the Palestinians. Newly released historical records provide that information.It is well known except here in the US. As far as annihilation, the Israelis are engaged in wiping the Palestinians off the map, not the other way around.
You need a different source for your information.

Who gives a rats ass what the UN demands. The Arabs and Palestinians have never followed them. Look at Hezbollah today. They rearmed and never released the captured soldiers. After the war the Arabs still preached genocide to the Jews, yet the victors in the conflict should make the only concessions and the losers should do a damn thing. Great logic.

Personal attacks and rudeness does not help your cause. You should very much care what the U.N. says. It represent what the world thinks. Just how important the U.N. really is hit home when on 9/12/01 the U.S. paid all its back owed funds to the U.N.
Israel is the aggressor with 88 U.N. Security Council Resolutions, and its victims, the Palestinians have by International Law and the Geneva Convention all the rights

Or if anyone of one instances believe that the Pals want peace is misleading and untrue itself. The Jews have made the first move which was to leave Gaza, since then the Pals haven't made one concession.

In the face of all the evidence, Israeli propaganda no longer works. Israel is the 3rd best equipped army in the world agains WHAT? People with rocks and an occasional WW2 rocket that does little damage? Just who are you kidding.

Not 1 inch? LAUGHABLE and untrue. Let's see: (1) Sinai regardless of how it was acquired was given back for a peace deal. That one crack in your theory.

With Egypt!!]

(2) During the Camp David accords the PLO were given 98% of the land they sought. Yet they turned it down and you say the Israelis aren't for peace. Ask the Native Americans how sweet a deal that would be.

More propaganda. There was NO offer, there were only more demands by Israel, as made very clear on Dutch television by Ehud Baracks advisor Dr. Menachem Klein.

(3) Gaza: They left Gaza and evacuted all the settlements. How is that not giving back any land.

After which Gaza was hermetically closed off from the outside world, like a high security prison. It has become a camp. Its little agriculture has been destroyed. Its factories bombed out. Israeli towers have guns pointed at them 24/7. F-16s still terrorize and bomb them at will and so do Apachy helicopters, while there are Israeli tanks spread out all over Gaza. Israely death squads drive around Gaza in unmarked cars and off anyone who doesn;t look kosher to them without benefit of a court of law. So hearing Israel claim that they gave Gaza back is like the Nazi's claiming in 1944 that they'd given Holland back to the Dutch. Talk is cheap. The reality is something quite different.

[Gerry]

quote](4) Now they are in discussions to give back all the lands dating back to 1967. Yet the Pals are instant on an unreasonable right to return.[/quote]

No there is not. Have you even had a look at the West Bank and how the settlements have been built? There is no more possibility of a Palestinian home land since there is no contigious Palestine left. It has been annexed by default due to its colonization.

No country would let in millions of people would seek to destroy you. Yet people will twist this to racism. Pathetic.

That the official Israeli opinion, on which THEY built the preposterous notion that they have to eliminate all Palestinians, which they have been doing. Screaming that the Arabs are threatining to wipe them off the map while THEY themselves are engaged in doing just that to the Palestinians is truly chutzpah.

And its about peace!

No it's not at all about peace. It's about LAND and how the Israeli can get more of it. The Palestinians are a nuisance that stand in their way. Wanting a pure Jewish state is not a democracy but the theocracy.

If the Pals agree to peace and denounce terror they have a free independent Palestine, but Hamas refuses to do that.

No they don't!! Read that again...they don't have to renounce ANYTHING! International Law and the Geneva Convention gives every Palestinian the right to defend themselves against an illegal invader/oppressor. And that is Israel.

Look at Hamas charter for god sake. It says specifically in it that their goal is the destruction of Israel. Yet people expect them to negotiate with people who have a stated goal of killing you. That would be a smart move.

Look at Israeli history. they've killed 4 times the number of Palestinians than Palestinians killed Israeli. Perhaps you're not aware that Israel funded HAMAS in the 80s in the hope to undermine the PLO.

Back up your points with facts my friend! As of today its only some Brits that are doing this, while they even receive opposition from within their ranks.

The EU officially is addressing the issue of banning ALL goods from Israel. Google it.

NO, both groups are required to acknowledge the others right to exist. The door swings both ways. Don't hold Israel to a higher standard than the Palestinians and Arabs.

Nope, not in this case. Remember, t International Law and the Geneva Convention are on the side of the victims(Palestinians). since it is the Palestinians that are being wiped off the map by Israel, it is Israel that is required to officially accept Palestinians right to exist and vacate all Palestinian land taken in 1967.

You are not your father or your grandparents! Don't take credit for what they did (granted they do what you say they did - it could easy be a fabricated way for you to build your credibility - not saying that is the case though).

No, I am not my father nor my grandparents, but they raised me with their moral codes. And by your yardstick my father was a terrorist because he fought the Nazis and my grandparents risked their lives daily for nothing, because what? They should have let Hitler take some more Jews to a camps? I learned a very long time ago that one cannot prevent people from thinking whatever they want to think.
Freedom fighters/underground are a whole different thing from terrorists.
Palestinians are seen as freedom fighters despite Israel/American insistance that they're terrorists.

Might not be how you want to be characterized but this is how it comes from the The European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, a part of the Council of Europe, Quote: "Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed towards Jews and non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, towards Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."

Strawman since I have never made one anti-semitic remark and carry no such a notion. Using it to prevent people from criticizing Israel was a successful tool for a very long time. It no longer works.

The instruction attached some contemporary examples which "could, taking into account the overall context, include but are not limited to": (1) Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;

Strawman - that claim has not been made. You are very disingenuous. You know full well that I and the rest of the world, with MANY Israelis and American Jews object to Israeli oppression and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

(2) Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;

The world is requiring that Israel abide by International law, immediately cease ALL hostility towards Palestinians and retreat to the 1967 borders. Is that clear. Is that requiring Israel to do anything that other countries are not required to do? Next....

(3) Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis; (4) Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis; (5) Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.

I hold the Israeli Government accopuntible for its deeds. Most Israelis, like most Americans are victims of our respective Governments.

So save us you victimhood and your attempt at labeling.

[shrike]

Quote by: garry The notion that the Arabs had anything that could be construed as an army is absurd. They were slaughtered.!

It was the Arabs who started genocidal campaign against Jews they not hide it they say it openly at the sermons in their mosques.
That how it’s started:
1920 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of Jordan is Palestinian.. The notion that because the Arabs didn't agree to their territory being deeded to Israel in 1948 gives Israel the right to steal more land than was partitioned to them

And who you to decide who owns what? Even anti Israeli UN accepted 1967 borders of Israel they beyond any dispute. What disputed is a Judea and Samaria.

Israel does not belong in any place they illegally took in 1967 Period

Again why do you think you have any authority what legal or not.Land changes happened in many wars Especially if it a defensive war.

Don't start talking in circles. Israel does not belong in any place they illegally took in 1967 Period. You engage in upside down reasoning to me and ignore the 88 U.N. Security Council Resolutions condemning Israeli violence. That's the opinion of the international community and the U.N.

Well this UN resolutions only prove that Israel is singled out by UN. Why there is no resolutions against Russia about what happened in Chechnya or against illegal occupation of Tibet by China and about many others that break Human rights and slaughter civilians but no one cares about them.
Here is more on that issue
OpinionJournal - Extra

Not so, I know that's the official Israeli rhetoric but the truth is that No one attacked Israel. Israel engaged in an illegal pre-emptive strike. That is on all international records. Twisting to suit your purpose does nothing. The facts are known.

Its you who twisting reality. The pre-emptive strike against Egypt was totally legal and justified. When you amass you forces at border and force UN peace keeping force to leave you probably want peace right?
Closure of Straits of Tiran was legal casus belly because by it they brooked pervious cease fire i.e act of war.

More propaganda. There was NO offer, there were only more demands by Israel, as made very clear on Dutch television by Ehud Baracks advisor Dr. Menachem Klein

Of course there was offer. Here is interview with Dennis Ross man who actually was there. He expains who is guilty if failure of the summit.
FOXNews.com - Dennis Ross on Fox News Sunday - U.S. & World

After which Gaza was hermetically closed off from the outside world, like a high security prison

Please check you facts. Gaza have a border with Egypt that it frequently open. Even now when Kassams fall on Israeli Children and border-posted bombed frequently by terrorist. Israel allows entrance of various goods for Humanitarian reasons.

[jose]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Actually, it's the pro-Palestinians around here that I have seen posting propaganda, as I have repeatedly pointed out. Random blogs, art exhibits, and sites with names like "The Electronic Intifada" are hardly objective, ne?

And would you call posting pics from Glen Reinsford´s fascist site objective or objectionable
TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

[PatrickHenry]

I just encountered this, an account of the first political murder in the Jewish community in Palestine: Jacob Israël de Haan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It set the tone for Zionist murder for the next 80 years.

[shrike]

Quote by: PH just encountered this, an account of the first political murder in the Jewish community in Palestine: Jacob Israël de Haan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It set the tone for Zionist murder for the next 80 years

Its an example of demonization and singling out Jewish National Liberation movement But what can I expect from one that post info from Holocaust denial site.
Are you claiming that in other countries there were no political killings or feuds?

[PatrickHenry]

No, shrike. I am saying that the Haganah program of murder is the ethic of your nation. And that you are its defender.

And it's despicable.

[shrike]

No, shrike. I am saying that the Haganah program of murder is the ethic of your nation

Well History of US and Europe full of political murders, atrocities and genocides and its your ethics

And that you are its defender. And it's despicable. cs

Care to show me where I defended this murder?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike Well History of US and Europe full of political murders, atrocities and genocides and its your ethics

How true...your government has learned from masters of the art. Yet they are not MY ethics because I don't defend them.

You, on the other hand, can find no fault with all your government's atrocities and murders. Reason? You think it benefits YOU.

But I think you are mistaken and Israel's program of murder and ethnic cleansing will ultimately result in its demise. International support for your reign of terror is diminishing because of increased free scrutiny. The Zionist-controlled mass media can't keep all threads of inquiry in its grasp and the truth leaks out. More and more people of conscience (even Jews) are recognizing that injustice, murder and hate will never bring peace to your land.

Repentance and reform might do so, but there are so many committed to the lies that it may not be possible. :eek:

[shrike]

You, on the other hand, can find no fault with all your government's atrocities and murders. Reason? You think it benefits YOU.

Because I know that Israel is a liberal democracy that has checks and balances and every action is takes after serious consideration of course there will be always wrong deisms but in every if you post you failed to prove bad intent from Israel movement, court or parliament. Even if one branch of government goes wrong there always other to criticize it. That how it works

More and more people of conscience (even Jews) are recognizing that injustice, murder and hate will never bring peace to your land.

Do you think William Joyce too recognized this in British government?

[Bob652]

Quote by: JBG Notice that some small state barely the size of New Jersey arouses such attention, hatred and paranoia?

Notice the control Zionists have over the American government and the media. Notice the enormous Zionist lobby and the tremendous amount of Zionist money given through political action committees to both the Democratic (about 60%) of all and the Republican party (about 35% ) of all.Notice the subversive politicians who are willing to sell the the our own country down the drain in order to do whatever is expedient to the Zionist cause. They have been bought and sold knowing how they could not finance their campaigns with Zionist money.Notice the millions of dollars they have managed to chisel out of American taxpayers. Notice how the Zionists have infiltrated American government, putting the well being of a foreign rogue government above the national interests of The US. Notice how the exercise of "free speech" in America which is not supportive of the rogue Israeli government is enough to destroy careers of politicians and others.,: and how thinking people are labeled Anti-semitic. Notice the lack of balance in the Zionist controlled media in favor of the rogue Israeli government. Notice the thousands who are being killed in a war in Iraq which was instigated by Zionist lies. Notice the Zionist schemes now currently being seen to invade Iran and Lebanon, and Syria, and whatever other country the Zionists would like to defeat at the expense of American blood.
Yes there may be "attention" and perhaps even "hatred"; but paranoia is an irrational fear, while Zionist control, ethnic cleansing and terrorism is a reality that one does not have to be paranoid to recognize.