Israel: The Most Racist Illegal Nation.

[Bob652]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Do you think that the death toll among young Palestinians might have anything at all to do with them being told to strap bombs around themselves and walk up to checkpoints or into crowded buses, markets, weddings, etc.?

Do you think anyone would be desperate enough to go to such extreme measures if they were not being severely persecuted. The Zionists criminals in Israel have taken their land, killed many of their loved ones, tried to rob them of their dignity and identity, landed many of them in refugee camps, denied their return to the land of their heritage, confiscated their homes, on and on and on.
No one goes to the extremes of the self sacrifice mentioned for the fun of it. I think the unfortunate statement you made was crude, thoughtless, and inhuman. Violence is never acceptable, especially self inflicted violence, but with weapons that are no match for those of the Zionist criminals, they have very little other choices short of surrender.
They have a perfect right to fight for what is theirs; and their victory can not be forfeited because of any double standard. Give them the kinds of weapons that the Zionists have, or allow them to rely on their only alternatives.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Bob652 Violence is never acceptable, especially self inflicted violence, but with weapons that are no match for those of the Zionist criminals, they have very little other choices short of surrender.

I can just about tell where you're coming from by the words you use, but I was curious as to what you thought would happen if they did "surrender"? Do you think the "Zionist criminals" would take all the Pals out back, dig mass graves, and commit mass murder, then go on with their merry lives?

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Bob652 Do you think anyone would be desperate enough to go to such extreme measures if they were not being severely persecuted.

Yes, yes I do. After all, the U.S. wasn't really doing anything to persecute Afghanistan, and yet suicide bombers killed thousands of innocent civilians in 9/11. As a matter of fact, the U.S. had previously been in alliance with Afghanistan.

I know it is not necessarily the peak of politeness to answer a question with a question, but do you think that "being persecuted" justifies telling your kids to go blow themselves up just to peeve off a few Israelis? I don't care what your cause is: nothing can ever justify doing that to kids.

The Zionists criminals in Israel have taken their land, killed many of their loved ones, tried to rob them of their dignity and identity, landed many of them in refugee camps, denied their return to the land of their heritage, confiscated their homes, on and on and on.

And the Palestinians in the Middle East, not to mention other Muslims in the area took the Israelis' land, killed many of their loved ones, tried to rob them of their dignity and identity, attempted to drive the Jews into the sea, denied their return to the land of their heritage, destroyed their homes and businesses, and on and on and on. So I really don't want to hear it because despite all of this, the Jews aren't telling their kiddos to go blow themselves up for YHWH.

No one goes to the extremes of the self sacrifice mentioned for the fun of it. I think the unfortunate statement you made was crude, thoughtless, and inhuman. Violence is never acceptable, especially self inflicted violence, but with weapons that are no match for those of the Zionist criminals, they have very little other choices short of surrender. They have a perfect right to fight for what is theirs; and their victory can not be forfeited because of any double standard. Give them the kinds of weapons that the Zionists have, or allow them to rely on their only alternatives.

I think my statement was no such thing. You cited the death toll among Palestinian youths, and I made the rather objective observation that part of that is due to their being used by their own people as suicide bombers. It is a simple fact. I agree that the action is outrageous, but it is nonetheless true.

I don't believe that they have no other choice but to make martyrs of their own children. Not at all. I think that it is done as crass propaganda: holding their own sons and daughters hostage because the deaths of innocents has a bigger emotional effect on all the spectator countries. I think they want us to think they have no other choice, so that we'll step in before any more children die. It is sickening. Utterly and horribly sickening. As is any attempt to justify it.

You fail to consider the implications of this business. No one has the right to take the life of another. Revenge is taken out of the equation because the hands of both sides are covered in blood...and even if they weren't, revenge is still not an acceptable motive. The ownership of the land is a murky issue to say the least. At what point does a statute of limitations come into effect for land seized from someone else? The land you stand on used to belong to another people. The land I stand on (even though I don't personally own it) was owned by at least 6 cultures before the United States took control of it. Should we go find the Native American tribes that used to live here and turn it back over to them? This argument works both ways because the land once belonged to the people of Israel, and then it belonged to the Palestinians, and then it returned to the Israelis. I can tell you, if we all went tit for tat on land ownership, the world map would look a lot different.

[PatrickHenry]

phoenix, I think you are ignorant of the Zionist terror campaign of 1946-1948.

[Yarn]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Jews do not think people from other race group can become a Jew or a member of "God's Chosen People" if they are not ethnically Jewish. Yes, it is based on racist premises.

Israel is a racist nation, but that is not the claim you made.

You said it is the most racist nation. To prove that claim you must compare its racism, to the racism of other racist countries, and show how its racism is more extreme.

To provide a starter, how is Israel more racist than Sudan?

In action at least, I think Israel is quite certainly not as racist as Sudan, because it doesn't kill as indescriminatly.

Only if one looks at the number of innocent Palestinian children have been killed, as opposed to few Israeli children, one gets the clear picture of a brutal, deliberate, genocide...

Even if I was an Israeli or a Jew, I would admit it. This is not about race, creed or religion.

It is about recognizing that children have rights to live... Children with stones have rights to not to fall victims of Israeli tanks and fighter jets.

Denying this silent genocide does not make you any better than those who commit it...

Genocide is the planned extermination of a peoples.

For one thing, you need to prove that Israel kills Palestinians because it wants to kill them, and not because it wants better security.

For another, you have to prove that Israel intends to exterminate the Palestinian people.

Finnally, you must prove that Israel is in the process of exterminating the Palestinian people (otherwise there is no currently no genocide taking place), and I dont see how you can prove that the Palestinian population is being exterminated, if it is being allowed to grow.

That is the criteria for proving genocide. Genocide does not deserve the gravity which it is given, if every instance where someone might have killed someone because of their race, is said to be genocide.

[Bob652]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Yes, yes I do. After all, the U.S. wasn't really doing anything to persecute Afghanistan, and yet suicide bombers killed thousands of innocent civilians in 9/11. As a matter of fact, the U.S. had previously been in alliance with Afghanistan. I know it is not necessarily the peak of politeness to answer a question with a question, but do you think that "being persecuted" justifies telling your kids to go blow themselves up just to peeve off a few Israelis? I don't care what your cause is: nothing can ever justify doing that to kids. And the Palestinians in the Middle East, not to mention other Muslims in the area took the Israelis' land, killed many of their loved ones, tried to rob them of their dignity and identity, attempted to drive the Jews into the sea, denied their return to the land of their heritage, destroyed their homes and businesses, and on and on and on. So I really don't want to hear it because despite all of this, the Jews aren't telling their kiddos to go blow themselves up for YHWH. I think my statement was no such thing. You cited the death toll among Palestinian youths, and I made the rather objective observation that part of that is due to their being used by their own people as suicide bombers. It is a simple fact. I agree that the action is outrageous, but it is nonetheless true. I don't believe that they have no other choice but to make martyrs of their own children. Not at all. I think that it is done as crass propaganda: holding their own sons and daughters hostage because the deaths of innocents has a bigger emotional effect on all the spectator countries. I think they want us to think they have no other choice, so that we'll step in before any more children die. It is sickening. Utterly and horribly sickening. As is any attempt to justify it. You fail to consider the implications of this business. No one has the right to take the life of another. Revenge is taken out of the equation because the hands of both sides are covered in blood...and even if they weren't, revenge is still not an acceptable motive. The ownership of the land is a murky issue to say the least. At what point does a statute of limitations come into effect for land seized from someone else? The land you stand on used to belong to another people. The land I stand on (even though I don't personally own it) was owned by at least 6 cultures before the United States took control of it. Should we go find the Native American tribes that used to live here and turn it back over to them? This argument works both ways because the land once belonged to the people of Israel, and then it belonged to the Palestinians, and then it returned to the Israelis. I can tell you, if we all went tit for tat on land ownership, the world map would look a lot different.

As far as 911 is concerned, the jury is still out on that one. I don't have the time or the energy at the moment to elaborate on this issue, but in time I will fully back my statements. In the meantime, if you are interested in being open minded, as I would like to assume you are, there is an abundance of literature, much of it produced by respectable sources, that you can easily find.
I am pleased you mentioned the alliance with Afghanistan. This alliance that you refer to is actually the famed alliance with the Taliban. In my view this is another clear illustration of the consequences of the US meddling into foreign struggles to the detriment of of our own nation. The financial and even military support for the Zionist state is clearly another example. The blunder of 1948 has unleashed a Pandora's box of misery and conflict upon us that could have been avoided if politicians would not have allowed themselves to duped by wealthy and powerful Zionists.
The thought of blowing up children is as horrifying to me as anything could ever be. My point was obviously not to justify, but to highlight a contributing factor, be it good, bad or indifferent. It is a fact, however, that there have been more Palestinian children murdered by Israeli bombs than by any other activity. When an entire Palestinian community is "punished" with Israeli explosions there is no Zionist mercy for the children who die or become orphaned. This happens to be true; and whether you want to hear it or not in not really my concern.
The Palestinians are not quilty of taking anyone's land. I think your statement to that effect, with all due respect, reflects a view that is completely oblivious to the events that have transpired in the middle East. The absence of logic in that comment is stunning.
I think a "statute of limitations" for the survival of the Zionist state would be far too premature. There are thousands of Palestinians who, despite Zionist brutality, are still alive. Unlike Native Americans they can walk back in to reclaim what is theirs. The Zionist crime can not be excused while it is still in the process of being committed.

[The Decider]

Quote by: jose excepted - definition of excepted by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. i´m sure that was a typo right?

Oh my...I made a spelling boo boo. You're observant, jose. The word should be "accepted."

I'll remember your attention to spelling precision for future reference. Believe it or not, your spelling isn't 100%. I'll repay the debt, senor.

Care to address the substance of my post?

[The Decider]

Quote by: Bob652 But it is neither easy nor encouraged. And even then there is no equality

Only orthodox sects make conversion difficult. But since you know so much about Judaism, Bob, you also know that Reform and Conservative sects freely accept converts and treat them as full Jews. You did know that, Bob?

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Bob652 As far as 911 is concerned, the jury is still out on that one. I don't have the time or the energy at the moment to elaborate on this issue, but in time I will fully back my statements. In the meantime, if you are interested in being open minded, as I would like to assume you are, there is an abundance of literature, much of it produced by respectable sources, that you can easily find. I am pleased you mentioned the alliance with Afghanistan. This alliance that you refer to is actually the famed alliance with the Taliban. In my view this is another clear illustration of the consequences of the US meddling into foreign struggles to the detriment of of our own nation. The financial and even military support for the Zionist state is clearly another example. The blunder of 1948 has unleashed a Pandora's box of misery and conflict upon us that could have been avoided if politicians would not have allowed themselves to duped by wealthy and powerful Zionists. The thought of blowing up children is as horrifying to me as anything could ever be. My point was obviously not to justify, but to highlight a contributing factor, be it good, bad or indifferent. It is a fact, however, that there have been more Palestinian children murdered by Israeli bombs than by any other activity. When an entire Palestinian community is "punished" with Israeli explosions there is no Zionist mercy for the children who die or become orphaned. This happens to be true; and whether you want to hear it or not in not really my concern. The Palestinians are not quilty of taking anyone's land. I think your statement to that effect, with all due respect, reflects a view that is completely oblivious to the events that have transpired in the middle East. The absence of logic in that comment is stunning. I think a "statute of limitations" for the survival of the Zionist state would be far too premature. There are thousands of Palestinians who, despite Zionist brutality, are still alive. Unlike Native Americans they can walk back in to reclaim what is theirs. The Zionist crime can not be excused while it is still in the process of being committed.

1.) Are you implying the 9/11-conspiracy-theory-wag-the-dog business? Because while I don't blindly believe the U.S. government to be entirely benevolent, I find that theory to be beyond ridiculous.

2.) If you're going to mention sources, please at least list them...especially since you not mentioning the subject makes it very difficult for me to look into them.

3.) I don't really care for the U.S. playing world police, as I have mentioned before. I don't support the Iraq War, nor the previous policy of "dissuading" countries from adopting Communism. Don't get me wrong.

4.) I think that the insinuation that "Zionists" are slyly manipulating the world from the shadows is way outta line.

5.) You sure seemed like you were justifying it. I mean, you were giving a mitigating reason...that's justification.

6.) I was under the impression that the Israelis warn civilians ahead of time of where they plan to bomb (endangering their own people in the process) so that they can avoid civilian casualties. This is to try to get around the fact that the Palestinians hide their weapons and bunkers and military bases in cowardly places like schools, mosques, and other civilian centers. Hamas and Hezbollah, on the other hand, seem bent on maximizing Israeli civilian casualties.

7.) Look. There is plenty of historical evidence to indicate that the land was once in the possession of the Jews. Without Israel, they do not have a homeland, nor a place where Jews control the government. I can understand (if not condone) why the survivors of the Holocaust would want somewhere that they did not have to worry about the government turning on them. Furthermore, the Allied powers promised the Jews their own homeland: a promise that they reneged on. They had planned to give the Jews their homeland while still recognizing the autonomy and religious rights of the Arabs. The Jews agreed to this setup, but incidentally, the Arabs didn't. They rejected coexistence. Look up the Balfour declaration. When the Allies did not deliver on their promise, the Jews decided to do it themselves. And when they finally acquired their own nation, the powers that be recognized the legitimacy of that nation, and thus firmly established its legality. Considering the land concessions that they have made, I think that the nation of Israel is still trying for coexistence, but that is very difficult when the people that you are trying to coexist with want to drive you into the sea.

[Ibn_Sina]

You lot are saying that people from any colour can become a Jew..

Even two months ago, my African friend was told that he cannot become a Jew.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina You lot are saying that people from any colour can become a Jew.. Even two months ago, my African friend was told that he cannot become a Jew.

America has black, brown, yellow, and white Jews. Again, for third time now, only the Orthodox sects place limitations on conversion, and of those a few are very extreme. But Reform and Conservative sects permit anyone to convert. Is this so hard to understand?

[shrike]

Quote by: decider Again, for third time now, only the Orthodox sects place limitations on conversion, and of those a few are very extreme.

I was not aware of it.As far as I know everybody can be Jews although its not an easy process

[shrike]

Quote by: sina Even two months ago, my African friend was told that he cannot become a Jew

I know you refused 2 times at least to check if you really want it.

[Bob652]

Quote by: phoenix_fire 1.) Are you implying the 9/11-conspiracy-theory-wag-the-dog business? Because while I don't blindly believe the U.S. government to be entirely benevolent, I find that theory to be beyond ridiculous. 2.) If you're going to mention sources, please at least list them...especially since you not mentioning the subject makes it very difficult for me to look into them. 3.) I don't really care for the U.S. playing world police, as I have mentioned before. I don't support the Iraq War, nor the previous policy of "dissuading" countries from adopting Communism. Don't get me wrong. 4.) I think that the insinuation that "Zionists" are slyly manipulating the world from the shadows is way outta line. 5.) You sure seemed like you were justifying it. I mean, you were giving a mitigating reason...that's justification. 6.) I was under the impression that the Israelis warn civilians ahead of time of where they plan to bomb (endangering their own people in the process) so that they can avoid civilian casualties. This is to try to get around the fact that the Palestinians hide their weapons and bunkers and military bases in cowardly places like schools, mosques, and other civilian centers. Hamas and Hezbollah, on the other hand, seem bent on maximizing Israeli civilian casualties. 7.) Look. There is plenty of historical evidence to indicate that the land was once in the possession of the Jews. Without Israel, they do not have a homeland, nor a place where Jews control the government. I can understand (if not condone) why the survivors of the Holocaust would want somewhere that they did not have to worry about the government turning on them. Furthermore, the Allied powers promised the Jews their own homeland: a promise that they reneged on. They had planned to give the Jews their homeland while still recognizing the autonomy and religious rights of the Arabs. The Jews agreed to this setup, but incidentally, the Arabs didn't. They rejected coexistence. Look up the Balfour declaration. When the Allies did not deliver on their promise, the Jews decided to do it themselves. And when they finally acquired their own nation, the powers that be recognized the legitimacy of that nation, and thus firmly established its legality. Considering the land concessions that they have made, I think that the nation of Israel is still trying for coexistence, but that is very difficult when the people that you are trying to coexist with want to drive you into the sea.

I wonder how accommodating you would be if the "allies" agreed to give "legally" away your home; or even, although unlikely, if they were kind and loving enough to tell you ahead of time when they were going to bomb your neighborhood. Perhaps you would agree to perish in an ethnic cleansing campaign so that those of another ethnicity could claim a nation as the homeland of their own ethnicity.
Unlike Zionist criminals and subversives, there are many Jewish people in America and on other continents who are proud to be citizens of their nations, participate, and assimilate. In most cases they are financially successful and many occupy prominent places in government and industry. There is no need to throw the world into turmoil or confiscate what is not their to assert genetic singularity or superior status as a separate race or ethnicity.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Bob652 I wonder how accommodating you would be if the "allies" agreed to give "legally" away your home; or even, although unlikely, if they were kind and loving enough to tell you ahead of time when they were going to bomb your neighborhood. Perhaps you would agree to perish in an ethnic cleansing campaign so that those of another ethnicity could claim a nation as the homeland of their own ethnicity. Unlike Zionist criminals and subversives, there are many Jewish people in America and on other continents who are proud to be citizens of their nations, participate, and assimilate. In most cases they are financially successful and many occupy prominent places in government and industry. There is no need to throw the world into turmoil or confiscate what is not their to assert genetic singularity or superior status as a separate race or ethnicity.

You totally miss all points.

1.) I made a point of saying that the plan would allow for coexistence and for the Arabs to retain their autonomy and religious rights. They wouldn't have had to lose that. They weren't being kicked out. But they'd rather have war and bloodshed and angst than peaceful coexistence with people that happen to have a different religion.

2.) Your "ethnic cleansing" has been shot down already.

3.) I explained the reasons and the rationale behind that already. Bombing isn't nice, no. But warning civilians to flee ahead of time is far more humane that a surprise attack. At least they're trying to save lives. And as I said before, the terror organizations do precisely the opposite. I also mentioned Hamas' and Hezbollah's cowardly act of hiding military targets in civilian centres. They hold their own people hostage so that when a few of them die (because of their own people!) they can try to get international sympathy. Disgusting.

4.) Consider this: you are some ethnicity, doesn't matter which. You live peacefully in some country where you're a minority. You don't really have a homeland because your people were run out of theirs a long time ago. But your neighbors seem nice enough. And your parents and parents' parents lived here. You have a nice business and a loving family. Then suddenly this guy rises to power in your country and he says that your race is the cause of all the country's problems. At first, you think: whatever. This will blow over. This guy's obviously psycho and the sensible people of my country whom I love will see that. But he doesn't go away. And soon, there are restrictions on where you can go and what you can do. And then you get a big label to stick on your clothes to make the discrimination easier. And then you start hearing rumors about friends and family disappearing. You try to run, you try to hide, whatever. You think "how could this happen in this country? I thought this was a good place!". Eventually you get rounded up, shoved into a cattle car full to the brim of other people and shipped off to a camp where you are branded with a number, robbed of your possessions, your hair, your humanity; and made to work until you die of starvation or they kill you in the gas chambers (on the pretense that you're getting a refreshing shower). If you're really unlucky, you got the camp where the mad doctor likes to do experiments on people without anesthesia, so you may die that way. 6 million die.

THAT is genocide. What you're talking about doesn't even compare.

And THAT is why the Jews (that somehow managed to survive) wanted their own country. If it happened to me, I probably would too.

[Bob652]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You totally miss all points. 1.) I made a point of saying that the plan would allow for coexistence and for the Arabs to retain their autonomy and religious rights. They wouldn't have had to lose that. They weren't being kicked out. But they'd rather have war and bloodshed and angst than peaceful coexistence with people that happen to have a different religion. 2.) Your "ethnic cleansing" has been shot down already. 3.) I explained the reasons and the rationale behind that already. Bombing isn't nice, no. But warning civilians to flee ahead of time is far more humane that a surprise attack. At least they're trying to save lives. And as I said before, the terror organizations do precisely the opposite. I also mentioned Hamas' and Hezbollah's cowardly act of hiding military targets in civilian centres. They hold their own people hostage so that when a few of them die (because of their own people!) they can try to get international sympathy. Disgusting. 4.) Consider this: you are some ethnicity, doesn't matter which. You live peacefully in some country where you're a minority. You don't really have a homeland because your people were run out of theirs a long time ago. But your neighbors seem nice enough. And your parents and parents' parents lived here. You have a nice business and a loving family. Then suddenly this guy rises to power in your country and he says that your race is the cause of all the country's problems. At first, you think: whatever. This will blow over. This guy's obviously psycho and the sensible people of my country whom I love will see that. But he doesn't go away. And soon, there are restrictions on where you can go and what you can do. And then you get a big label to stick on your clothes to make the discrimination easier. And then you start hearing rumors about friends and family disappearing. You try to run, you try to hide, whatever. You think "how could this happen in this country? I thought this was a good place!". Eventually you get rounded up, shoved into a cattle car full to the brim of other people and shipped off to a camp where you are branded with a number, robbed of your possessions, your hair, your humanity; and made to work until you die of starvation or they kill you in the gas chambers (on the pretense that you're getting a refreshing shower). If you're really unlucky, you got the camp where the mad doctor likes to do experiments on people without anesthesia, so you may die that way. 6 million die. THAT is genocide. What you're talking about doesn't even compare. And THAT is why the Jews (that somehow managed to survive) wanted their own country. If it happened to me, I probably would too.

Mao was responsible for the deaths of over 70 million of his own people, not to mention Stalin, Pol Pot etc. More people throughout history have been killed at the hands of their own governments that in all war and foreign invasions together. This does not give the Chinese or the Russians or any other victims of holocaust by the hands of their own government the right to establish a separate sovereign nation in the ancestral homeland of anyone.
It has been over 65 years since the unkind events in Nazi Germany took place. It is high time to get over it. We have been bombarded by the media relentlessly. In the US there is barely a day that goes by without some TV program dealing with Nazi Germany as if there were no other persecutions or victims of tyranny..
It is not just one ethnic group that is in danger of totalitarian despotism. We are all potential victims of tyrants. That should give us reason to be vigilant, and aware of the dangers of unleashed, out of control government. It does not, however, justify the Zionist crimes or the subversiveness of Zionists who call themselves citizens of one nation while their allegiance is to another.
The establishment of the state of Israel has been a tragedy cruelly inflicted on Jews, Muslims, Palestinians, and the world.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Bob652 Mao was responsible for the deaths of over 70 million of his own people, not to mention Stalin, Pol Pot etc. More people throughout history have been killed at the hands of their own governments that in all war and foreign invasions together. This does not give the Chinese or the Russians or any other victims of holocaust by the hands of their own government the right to establish a separate sovereign nation in the ancestral homeland of anyone. It has been over 65 years since the unkind events in Nazi Germany took place. It is high time to get over it. We have been bombarded by the media relentlessly. In the US there is barely a day that goes by without some TV program dealing with Nazi Germany as if there were no other persecutions or victims of tyranny.. It is not just one ethnic group that is in danger of totalitarian despotism. We are all potential victims of tyrants. That should give us reason to be vigilant, and aware of the dangers of unleashed, out of control government. It does not, however, justify the Zionist crimes or the subversiveness of Zionists who call themselves citizens of one nation while their allegiance is to another. The establishment of the state of Israel has been a tragedy cruelly inflicted on Jews, Muslims, Palestinians, and the world.

I don't know that you can speak on not having a homeland and autonomy. You have no idea. And "unkind" is an outrageously huge euphemism to use. In that spirit,

It has been over 65 years since the unkind events in the Middle East took place. It is high time to get over it. We have been bombarded by the media relentlessly.

If that's enough time for you to forget about the much greater injustice of the Holocaust, than it should be enough for you to get over a simple territorial reallocation.

Does the dissonance of your stance not strike you at all?

[jose]

test

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You totally miss all points.

Your points are ill taken, phoenix.

Quote by: phoenix_fire 1.) I made a point of saying that the plan would allow for coexistence and for the Arabs to retain their autonomy and religious rights. They wouldn't have had to lose that. They weren't being kicked out. But they'd rather have war and bloodshed and angst than peaceful coexistence with people that happen to have a different religion.

The plan was ignored by Ben Gurion, Begin and Jabotinsky. They proceeded to murder and blow up anybody in their way.

Quote by: phoenix_fire 2.) Your "ethnic cleansing" has been shot down already.

Fraid not.. The Majdal 29: The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

Ethnic Cleansing is a crime and those who perpetrate it are criminals. In 1948, the leadership of the Zionist movement, which became the government of Israel, committed a crime against the Palestinian people. The crime was Ethnic Cleansing. This is not a casual term but an indictment with far reaching political, legal and moral implications. The meaning of this term was clarified in the aftermath of the 1990s' civil war in the Balkans. Any action by one ethnic group meant to drive out another ethnic group with the purpose of transforming a mixed ethnic region into a pure one is Ethnic Cleansing. An action can become Ethnic Cleansing regardless of the means employed. Every means, from persuasion and threats to expulsions and mass killings, justifies the attribution of the term to such policies. The act itself qualifies the categorization of the act: therefore, certain policies are regarded as Ethnic Cleansing by the international community even when a master plan for their execution is not found or exposed. Consequently, the victims of Ethnic Cleansing are both people who left out of fear and those expelled forcefully as part on an on-going operation. The above definitions and references can be found in the American State Department and United Nations websites. These are the principal definitions that guided the International Court in The Hague when it was setup to try those responsible for planning and executing the Ethnic Cleansing operations as people guilty of perpetrating crimes against humanity. In Plan Dalet, adopted in March 1948 by the high command of the Hagana (the main Jewish underground in the pre-state days), the Israeli objective of 1948 is clear. The goal was to take over as much as possible of the territory of Mandatory Palestine and remove most of the Palestinian villages and urban neighborhoods from the coveted territory which would constitute the future Jewish State. The execution was even more systematic and comprehensive than the plan anticipated. In a matter of seven months, 531 villages were destroyed and 11 urban neighborhoods emptied. The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and imprisonment of men (defined as males a bove the age often) in labor camps for periods over a year. All these characteristics in the year of 2006 can be only attributed to Ethnic Cleansing policy; namely a policy that, according to the UN definition, aims at transforming a mixed ethnic area into a pure ethnic space, where all means are justified. Such a policy is defined under international law as a crime against humanity which the US State Department believes can only be rectified by the repatriation of all the people who left or were expelled as a result of the ethnic cleansing operations.

Quote by: phoenix_fire 3.) I explained the reasons and the rationale behind that already. Bombing isn't nice, no. But warning civilians to flee ahead of time is far more humane that a surprise attack. At least they're trying to save lives. And as I said before, the terror organizations do precisely the opposite. I also mentioned Hamas' and Hezbollah's cowardly act of hiding military targets in civilian centres. They hold their own people hostage so that when a few of them die (because of their own people!) they can try to get international sympathy. Disgusting.

You think Israel tells everybody when they are about to slam down a missile? You can't be that simple...Nobody does that...

Quote by: phoenix_fire 4.) Consider this: you are some ethnicity, doesn't matter which. You live peacefully in some country where you're a minority. You don't really have a homeland because your people were run out of theirs a long time ago. But your neighbors seem nice enough. And your parents and parents' parents lived here. You have a nice business and a loving family. Then suddenly this guy rises to power in your country and he says that your race is the cause of all the country's problems. At first, you think: whatever. This will blow over. This guy's obviously psycho and the sensible people of my country whom I love will see that. But he doesn't go away. And soon, there are restrictions on where you can go and what you can do. And then you get a big label to stick on your clothes to make the discrimination easier. And then you start hearing rumors about friends and family disappearing. You try to run, you try to hide, whatever. You think "how could this happen in this country? I thought this was a good place!". Eventually you get rounded up, shoved into a cattle car full to the brim of other people and shipped off to a camp where you are branded with a number, robbed of your possessions, your hair, your humanity; and made to work until you die of starvation or they kill you in the gas chambers (on the pretense that you're getting a refreshing shower). If you're really unlucky, you got the camp where the mad doctor likes to do experiments on people without anesthesia, so you may die that way. 6 million die.

Except for a few additions at the end, this sounds like what is happening to Muslim and Christian Palestinians TODAY...

Quote by: phoenix_fire THAT is genocide. What you're talking about doesn't even compare.

Oh, yes. The comparison is certainly apt.

Quote by: phoenix_fire And THAT is why the Jews (that somehow managed to survive) wanted their own country. If it happened to me, I probably would too.

That is not why...the Zionist movement began in the 1800s, long before the Third Reich. Do your research...
Israel is a racist nation. Maybe not the most, but it certainly is racist.

NewWorldPeace.com

The marriage ceremony was held in the Sephardic Synagogue. It was a simple but beautiful ceremony. Ziva and I were very happy, but our marriage created serious problems. You see, Ziva is a Sephardic Jewess and I am an Ashkenazi. To understand why we had such difficulties, you must realize the difference between the Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews. The powerful Zionist propaganda machine has led the American people to believe that a Jew is a Jew -- one race of people and that they are "God's Chosen People." I will deal with the "God's Chosen People" LIE later. First, it is important for you to understand that Jews are NOT one race of people. There are two distinct groups of Jews in the world and they come from two different areas of the world -- the SEPHARDIC Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, and the ASHKENAZI Jews come from Eastern Europe. The SEPHARDIC is the oldest group and it is they, if any, who are Jews described in the Bible. They are blood relatives to the Arabs -- the only difference between them is religion. The ASHKENAZI Jews, who now comprise 90% of the Jews in the world <snip> With Palestine as their choice for a homeland, European Ashkenazi Jews began migrating to Palestine. As I explained earlier, most were communist/socialist oriented with some of them being radical Bolshevik communists whose aim is world domination. So when you think of Jews, especially as related to Israel, keep in mind that there is a great difference between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews. They are not one united people. They are divided socially, politically and especially racially. Now, back to Ziva, a Sephardic Jewess, and I an Ashkenazi Jew, and our lives in the so-called democratic country of Israel. SEPHARDIC JEWS -- SECOND CLASS CITIZENS For the first three years of our marriage, it was necessary for us to live with Ziva's aunt. This was because of the critical housing shortage in Israel and because of racism. Housing is allotted as follows: *Ashkenazi Jews who have LIVED IN ISRAEL FOR MANY YEARS are given first choice. *Second in line are Ashkenazi Jews FROM EUROPE -- especially if they marry and Israeli born Askenazi Jew. *The next favored are Ashkenazi Jews FROM THE U.S.- especially if they marry an Israeli born Ashkenazi. *Sephardic Jews have the next choice of whatever housing is left. *At the bottom of the list are Moslems, Druze and Christians. Opportunities for employment follow the same pattern: Ashkenazi Jews get the choicest jobs, Sephardic Jews next, and Moslem, Druze and Christians fill the menial jobs with a great many left unemployed. Even though I was an Askenazi Jew from the U.S., I was placed lower on the list for housing because I had married a Sephardic Jewess. Being denied housing was my second experience of the intense racism that exists in Israel. From the very beginning of my arrival in Israel, many slurs were yelled at me. We American Jews were barely being tolerated. Because Israel, to survive, must depend on gifts of American taxpayers' money, donations from American Jews and sale of worthless Israeli Bonds in America, there is jealousy among the elite Israeli Ashkenazi Jews toward American Jews. Even if the American Jews are also Ashkenazi. Many times I was told, "Go home!" and "We want your money, but not you."

:eek:

[Bob652]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I don't know that you can speak on not having a homeland and autonomy. You have no idea. And "unkind" is an outrageously huge euphemism to use. In that spirit, It has been over 65 years since the unkind events in the Middle East took place. It is high time to get over it. We have been bombarded by the media relentlessly. If that's enough time for you to forget about the much greater injustice of the Holocaust, than it should be enough for you to get over a simple territorial reallocation. Does the dissonance of your stance not strike you at all?

No it does not. It just leads me to seriously suspect that your response is nothing but a childish cop-out.