Israel: The Most Racist Illegal Nation.

[The Decider]

Quote by: arielmessenger Prove me wrong. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Why bother? You're a Prophet of God and as such know The Truth. When I ascend to your lofty position as the Almighty's spokesman, I'll get back to you! Until then, the subject is Israel, the illegal racist nation--not world Jews and world Judaism.

Quote by: arielmessenger Hollywood was and is the natural mecca for the Liar's Cult members.

Ah, the "Jewish Hollywood elites." You forgot the Jewish International Bankers too, Herr Prophet of God!

[phoenix_fire]

You know, AM, doing things like calling them the "Liar's Cult" may be the reason why you encounter resistance on this forum, rather than mindless persecution. I, ya know, just have a feeling on this one. If you believe someone to be incorrect, it's usually more PC to say that they are mistaken, or that they have been led to believe incorrectly. You act as if every single Jew knows their faith is a lie and they continue to perpetuate it in order to maliciously manipulate other people. Haggard-esque, perhaps? Well, at least half.

[GHook93]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You know, AM, doing things like calling them the "Liar's Cult" may be the reason why you encounter resistance on this forum, rather than mindless persecution. I, ya know, just have a feeling on this one. If you believe someone to be incorrect, it's usually more PC to say that they are mistaken, or that they have been led to believe incorrectly. You act as if every single Jew knows their faith is a lie and they continue to perpetuate it in order to maliciously manipulate other people. Haggard-esque, perhaps? Well, at least half.

Don't bother, he/she isn't even worth the energy to type the message.

[arielmessenger]

deal with it. Prove me wrong. Show evidence the Liar's Cult does not tell whopper lies. That's all you got to do.

For instance, show proof that European Ashkenazi Jewish converts are Semitic peoples with more right to be in Palestine than Palestinians who live there.

Get Hook or someone to trot out the Jewish genetic "science" lie about "four real live Semitic Jewish mothers" mothering all the Ashkenazi Jewish converts making them kosher Jews. Let's see how you then explain why my Ashkenazi dna ancestry stops at Uzbekistan in the heart of the old Khazar kingdom with zero, repeat zero, Semitic ancestry showing from the Holy Land.

Hollywood really is the natural home for the Liar's Cult. They've had the most experience at telling tall tales and fooling the world of any religious or ideological group on earth.

[Matt W]

Truth you may tell, but you have an inescapable tendancy to stray from the topic. Kindly cease it.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[billybobama]

I am watching a DOC about New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina. None of you sorry ass Republicans want to stand before me now. You FASCIST BASTARDS make me sick. You worry about Israel. Why don't you Sorry Ass Republicans worry about AMERICANS for a change. You FASCIST SORRY ASS REPUBLICAN BASTARDS need to be destroyed. I hope the American people wake up soon, and when they do, you REPUBLICAN ASS HOLES had better have some place else to go.

[Bob652]

Quote by: GHook93 Don't bother, he/she isn't even worth the energy to type the message.

More personal comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you behave yourself Hookie:(

[Pooeypants]

This is not a chatroom, if you have nothing contributing to say, don't post.

[Bob652]

Quote by: arielmessenger deal with it. Prove me wrong. Show evidence the Liar's Cult does not tell whopper lies. That's all you got to do. For instance, show proof that European Ashkenazi Jewish converts are Semitic peoples with more right to be in Palestine than Palestinians who live there. Get Hook or someone to trot out the Jewish genetic "science" lie about "four real live Semitic Jewish mothers" mothering all the Ashkenazi Jewish converts making them kosher Jews. Let's see how you then explain why my Ashkenazi dna ancestry stops at Uzbekistan in the heart of the old Khazar kingdom with zero, repeat zero, Semitic ancestry showing from the Holy Land. Hollywood really is the natural home for the Liar's Cult. They've had the most experience at telling tall tales and fooling the world of any religious or ideological group on earth.

It's about time that someone realized that the people who refer to themselves as Jews today, although they for the most part may be excellent people, are not genetic descendants of the ancient Hebrew people. Just as Christians, like myself, refer to Christians as spiritual descendants of Abraham, Ashkenazi Jews should refer to themselves as spiritual descendants. There is absolutely no Justification for occupying a land that has nothing to do with heritage; and even if were their their heritage, the heritage of the Palestinian people is not any less valid that that of anyone else. The racist Zionists and the Israeli government have to understand that they are not inherently superior to any one, and are not entitled to parasite on others.

[Bob652]

Quote by: Pooeypants This is not a chatroom, if you have nothing contributing to say, don't post.

No problem poopy

[shrike]

Quote by: bob It's about time that someone realized that the people who refer to themselves as Jews today, although they for the most part may be excellent people

Well it seems only one that agrees with you.Claiming a prophet of some strange version of Christianity

are not genetic descendants of the ancient Hebrew people

Prove it.

[Bob652]

Quote by: shrike Well it seems only one that agrees with you.Claiming a prophet of some strange version of Christianity Prove it.

It is not my responsibility to prove anything to you Shrike. Research it for yourself.. The burden of proof is on you, not on me. I am not the party defending the perpetrators of Israeli crime, or dispossessing people from their homes with the incredible claim that their ancestral homes and properties belong to me.

[shrike]

It is not my responsibility to prove anything to you

You presented the claim so burden on proof on you.

[Bob652]

Quote by: shrike You presented the claim so burden on proof on you.

OK Shrike
I'll try to educate you. Begin by reading the Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler. When you can prove to me that you read it by reporting to me everything you have learned, I will then go to the next assignment. -and the next.
I would also like to discuss the Talmud with you after you have done your required reading on heritage..
This way I will be able to speak to a Shrike that knows something more that just Zionist propaganda.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Bob652 OK Shrike I'll try to educate you. Begin by reading the Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler. When you can prove to me that you read it by reporting to me everything you have learned, I will then go to the next assignment. -and the next. I would also like to discuss the Talmud with you after you have done your required reading on heritage.. This way I will be able to speak to a Shrike that knows something more that just Zionist propaganda.

It doesn't work that way, Bob-o. The way a debate works is you make a claim (i.e. that the current Jewish people are not genetic descendants of the ones in the Bible), you back it up. As this is an online debate forum where information is exchanged and posts made in a matter of seconds, etiquette suggests that you provide material that can be easily referenced (specifically, a link) so that your claim may be responded to quickly and while it is still relevant to the conversation.

Otherwise, all we can safely assume is that you are parroting propaganda.

[Bob652]

Quote by: shrike You presented the claim so burden on proof on you.

The Thirteenth Tribe

The Khazar Empire and its Heritage

Arthur Koestler

This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry...
The Khazars' sway extended from the Black sea to the Caspian, from the Caucasus to the Volga, and they were instrumental in stopping the Muslim onslaught against Byzantium, the eastern jaw of the gigantic pincer movement that in the West swept across northern Africa and into Spain.
Thereafter the Khazars found themselves in a precarious position between the two major world powers: the Eastern Roman Empire in Byzantium and the triumphant followers of Mohammed. As Arthur Koestler points out, the Khazars were the Third World of their day, and they chose a surprising method of resisting both the Western pressure to become Christian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism.
The second part of Mr. Koestler's book deals with the Khazar migration to Polish and Lithuanian territories, caused by the Mongol onslaught, and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced.
Mr. Koestler concludes: "The evidence presented in the previous chapters adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians - whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish - who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin. The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe. When that unprecedented mass settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it, while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers" ( page 179, page 180).
"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.
The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500000.
The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew." ( page 181).
In Mr. Koestler's own words, "The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."

Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry. He was also a very talented and successful writer who published over 25 novels and essays. His most successful book, Darkness at Noon, was translated in thirty-three languages.
As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide...

Map of the Khazar Empire

The Lord's Prayer in the Khazar language

PART ONE: RISE AND FALL OF THE KHAZARS

I - RISE

II - CONVERSION

III - DECLINE

IV - FALL

PART II - THE HERITAGE

V - EXODUS

VI - WHERE FROM ?

VII - CROSS-CURRENTS

VIII - RACE AND MYTH

APPENDICES

APPENDIX I - A NOTE ON SPELLING

APPENDIX II - A NOTE ON SOURCES

APPENDIX III - THE "KHAZAR CORRESPONDENCE"

APPENDIX IV - SOME IMPLICATIONS - ISRAEL AND THE DIASPORA

REFERENCES

SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY

INDEX

[Bob652]

[QUOTE=shrike;423712]You presented the claim so burden on proof on you.[/A Nation? A Religion??

Jewish claim to Palestine is historically untrue
http://www.moqawama.net/english/_isr...00509031617332
Gulf News, 3-9-2005.
During the recent evacuation of "Israeli" colonists from Gaza, their refusal, resentment and anger against their government were loud and clear.

The colonists had to leave the paradise-like colony close to the beautiful white sand Gaza beach and the other four rather insignificant colonies in the Northern West Bank. This left many other substantial Jewish colonies in the West Bank intact.þ

The melodrama demonstrated by the colonists for the international media fared very well for Sharon and his government to show the world how "impossible" it would be to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders, thus emphasizing the extremist Jewish-"Israeli" viewpoint that the Likud party will try to sustain.þ

The evacuation episode, nevertheless, should remind the world of the unparalleled pain and suffering of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, who still remain refugees.þ

Ideological statements made by evacuated colonists like "the Holy Land was presented to Abraham [PBUH] for the Jews and we are not going to leave it" offend the sensibilities of Arab Palestinians most, as this kind of extremist Jewish-"Israeli" ideological claim is the crux of the political conflict between Palestinians and "Israelis".þ

The latter consider the whole of Palestine, including the occupied Palestinian West Bank, to be exclusively a Jewish real estate, and the indigenous Arabs there as "foreigners" with no entitlement to their ancestral homeland.þ

"Israeli" colonial policies and attitudes render the 1948 United Nations Resolution 181 (which created "Israel") partitioning Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states as mere scraps of paper.þ

This, in spite of Western injustice that went through in the UN in favour of the settler Jews regarding the size of the land division, vis-à-vis the size of the populations of the two communities in 1947, to which Arab countries strongly protested at the UN.þ

Mockeryþ

The Security Council resolutions 242 and 338 demanded "Israel" withdraw from occupied Arab lands.þ

However, the non-enforcement of the resolutions and non-compliance by "Israel" has rendered international legality and international law meaningless, and the UN charter a mockery of post-Second World War history.þ

As for the "Israeli" extremists` nationalistic-religious claim based on God`s "promise" to Abraham "for the Jews" only (about 5,000 years ago), it is pertinent to point out that the claim is historically untrue.þ

The Old Testament itself does not say what Jewish extremists are made to believe based on Jewish political nationalism that came about much later.þ

Two sonsþ

If inheriting the "promised land" is to be taken literally, then it is for the "seed" of Abraham. Who, therefore, is the "seed" of Abraham?þ

It is, without prejudice, Abraham`s two sons, Ishmael (PBUH) and his descendants (Ishmaelites, who are Arabs) and Isaac (PBUH) and his descendants (Israelites).þ

One should, in this context, also differentiate between Israelites (descendants of Isaac), and "Jews" i.e. those who belong to the Jewish faith, the followers of Moses (PBUH).þ

If being a "Jew" is supposed to be ethnic identity, there is no scientific basis for determining Jewish identity on the basis of ethnology.þ

It is notable that most European Jews, particularly from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union (except for oriental Jews originating from the Middle East) who migrated to Palestine after the Second World War as a result of political Zionism, and particularly after the creation of the state of "Israel", has no known Semitic origins.þ

However, Palestine, where now only a Jewish state has been created, should in all fairness be equally shared by both Jews and Arab Muslims and Christians.þ

Historically, Arabs and oriental Jews had lived together in peace and harmony in Palestine for 1,400 years before the creation of "Israel" as a product of Zionism.þ

This was a fanatic political ideology that should now, for the sake of peace in the Middle East, be reviewed and modified by modern peace seeking "Israelis" to accommodate with the rightful Arab owners of the land.þ

Abdulkhaleq Bin-Dhaaer is a UAE diplomat. The views expressed are his ownþ
http://www.moqawama.net/english/_isr...00509031617332


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From: MSN NicknameAwadaعودة Sent: 9/26/2005 4:13 AM

...Judaism is a religion; but Zionism is a political movement started mainly by East European (Ashkenazi) Jews who for centuries have been the main force behind communism/socialism. The ultimate goal of the Zionists is one-world government under the control of the Zionists and the Zionist-oriented Jewish international bankers. ¯ Jack Bernstein

In Germany, the average Jews were victims of the Zionist elite who worked hand in hand with the Nazis. Many of]

[arielmessenger]

as an Israeli Zionist defender doesn't mean you Zionists own this topic. And you are extremely foolish to think anti-Zionists are few and far between. The more Israel and Zionist Jews in America drag our country into needless wars with Arab Muslims in the Middle East, the shorter Israel's lifespan remains.

I saw something that I haven't seen in our local papers which was reportage of an Israeli air strike against some Gaza Palestinians that killed two children and the children were actually mentioned on the headline of the article. That's a new thing for Palestinian children killed by IDF to be reported before the "terrorists" Palestinian "leaders". It is an indicator of how low Israel's respect in the world is sinking along with Bush's..

[The Decider]

Quote by: Bob652 The Thirteenth Tribe The Khazar Empire and its Heritage Arthur Koestler This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry...

Two things, Bob. First, modern geneticists reject the Khazar theory advanced by the non-geneticist, Arthur Koestler.

http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf

Secondly, your cut and paste book review needs a link, unless you are claiming authorship.

[shrike]

Quote by: bob Arthur Koestler.

Well if you would researched the subject you would no that his theory is no more than work of fiction

No modern mainstream scholars support Koestler's hypothesis. As Bernard Lewis wrote: This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics.[3] Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians; it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is largely unsupported; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.[6] Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particlarly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).[7] [edit] Recent Genetic Evidence Recent genetic research studies have contradicted the main thesis of The Thirteenth Tribe. For example, a 2000 study of haplotypes by Hammer et al indicates that the Y chromosomes of most Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are of Middle Eastern origin, containing mutations that are also common among Palestinians and other Middle Eastern peoples, yet are uncommon in the general European population. These results strongly suggest that most male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews can be traced primarily to the Middle East.[8] A second study (2006) by Behar et al, based on haplotype analysis of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), also indicates that about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women. These four "founder lineages" were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE.[9]

The Thirteenth Tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia