Israel: The Most Racist Illegal Nation.

[shrike]

What do you want to say by this or you work as a news service for propaganda sources?

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 Yep that don't show that on the STATE run Iranian media. All they show is Jews drinking the blood of Palestinian children.

Given my professional integrity and tolerance for everyone, I should become the Iranian Minister of Communications. However, our media is not as biased as you may think.

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 Why the Sudanese refugees are not staying in Egypt or going to your beloved Iran, instead of the all racist Israel? These refugees aren't Jewish!

Simple.. Israel is the most developed country in midde-east.

[jose]

Quote by: shrike , If their have a land deed and legally own the property.I think they can move in.

you quote the law, but we have weapons

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Simple.. Israel is the most developed country in midde-east.

How did it become the most developed country in the region when its the youngest and surrounded by people who want to harm her? That is a better question. Maybe her Arab and Persian neighbors should study her success, instead of trying to kill her.

[jose]

Quote by: GHook93 How did it become the most developed country in the region when its the youngest and surrounded by people who want to harm her? That is a better question. Maybe her Arab and Persian neighbors should study her success, instead of trying to kill her.

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.
Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US | csmonitor.com

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 How did it become the most developed country in the region when its the youngest and surrounded by people who want to harm her? That is a better question. Maybe her Arab and Persian neighbors should study her success, instead of trying to kill her.

1. Billions of dollars worth AID from USA and reparations from Germany. With constant funding flowing into the economy, it is a lot easier.

2. Show me a developed or first-world country in the world, which has not been colonized by the West and yet acheived such success? Israel's biggest ally, USA, has the most influence in World Bank and IMF policies. These institutions economic policy for the third world is only making those countries even poorer.

There are lots of economic and political factors involved... .

[GHook93]

Quote by: jose Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person. Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US | csmonitor.com

Yea, but that goes to defense. The rest of the production is produced by the hardworking Jews.

If there is ever a true peace deal between the Arabs, Persians and Jews te aid wouldn't be needed.

[shrike]

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person. Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US | csmonitor.com

Do you know how much Arabs countries received from USSR until it was dissolved?

[Mia]

How much? Did any one nation receive as much as Israel does from the US?

[shrike]

How much? Did any one nation receive as much as Israel does from the US?

The USSR didn't have an open records like US so we can only estimate.But we know that they received much from USSR.Most of the Arabs Army was based on soviet technology.Also lets not forget that Egypt and Jordan get to American help after 1977

[GHook93]

Quote by: shrike Also lets not forget that Egypt and Jordan get to American help after 1977

And so did the Palestinians, until they elected terrorist to run their government!

[GHook93]

The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE

The Jews had a large kingdom in the M.E. and it has been trampelled on by the Assyrians, Babolyians, Persian (althought they treated the Jews well), Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arab Crusaders, Christian Crusaders, Arabs again and Finally the Turks!

To say they have no claim to the lands is blaspheme!

[arielmessenger]

"Phantom Wanderers

Two archeologists say the escape from Egypt into Sinai seems highly unlikely.

By Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman

(Excerpted from "The Bible Unearthed," The Free Press, 2001)

"In the 13th century, Egypt was at the peak of its authority—the dominant power in the world. The Egyptian grip over Canaan was firm: Egyptian strongholds were built in various places in the country, and Egyptian officials administered the affairs of the region. In the el-Amarna letters, which are dated a century before, we are told that a unit of 50 Egyptian soldiers was big enough to pacify unrest in Canaan.

Throughout the period of the New Kingdom, large Egyptian armies marched through Canaan to the north, as far as the Euphrates in Syria. Therefore, the main overland road that went from the delta along the coast of northern Sinai to Gaza and then into the heart of Canaan was of utmost importance to the pharaonic regime.

The most potentially vulnerable stretch of road--which crossed the arid and dangerous desert of northern Sinai between the delta and Gaza--was the most protected. A sophisticated system of Egyptian forts, granaries and wells was established at a day's march distance along the entire length of the road, which was called the Ways of Horus.

These road stations enabled the imperial army to cross the Sinai peninsula conveniently and efficiently when necessary. The annals of the great Egyptian conqueror Thumose III tell us that he marched with his troops from the eastern delta to Gaza, a distance about 250 kilometers, in ten days. A relief from the day of Ramesses II's father, Pharaoh Seti I (from around 1300 B.C.), shows the forts and water reservoirs in the form of an early map that traces the route from the eastern delta to the southwestern border of Canaan.

The remains of these forts were uncovered in the course of archeological investigations in northern Sinai by Eliezer Oren of Ben Gurion University, in the 1970s. Oren discovered that each of these road stations, closely corresponding to the sites designated on the ancient Egyptian relief, comprised three elements: a strong fort made of bricks in the typical Egyptian military architecture, storage installations for food provisions, and a water reservoir.

Putting aside the possibility of divinely inspired miracles, one can hardly accept the idea of a flight of a large group of slaves fro Egypt through the heavily guarded border fortifications into the desert and then into Canaan in the time of such a formidable Egyptian presence. Any group escaping Egypt against the will of the pharoah would have easily been tracked down not only by an Egyptian army chasing it from the delta, but also by the Egyptian soldiers in the forts in northern Sinai and in Canaan.

Indeed, the biblical narrative hits at the dangers of attempting to flee by the coastal route. Thus the only alternative would be to turn into the desolate wastes of the Sinai peninsula. But the possibility of a large group of people wandering in the Sinai peninsula is also contradicted by archeology.

According to the biblical account, the children of Israel wandered in the desert and mountains of the Sinai peninsula, moving around and camping in different places, for a full 40 years. Even if a number of fleeing Israelites (given in the text as 600,000) is wildly exaggerated, or can be interpreted as representing smaller numbers of people, the text describes the survival of a great number of people under the most challenging conditions. Some archaeological traces of their generation-long wandering in the Sinai should be apparent. However, except for the Egyptian forts along the northern coast, not a single campsite or sign of occupation from the time of Ramesses II and his immediate predecessors and successors has ever been found in Sinai.

It has not been for lack of trying. Repeated archaeological surveys in all regions of the peninsula, including the mountainous area around the traditional site of Mount Sinai, near Saint Catherine's Monastery, has yielded only negative evidence: not a single sherd, no structure, not a single house, no trace of an ancient encampment.

One may argue that a relatively small band of wandering Israelites cannot be expected to leave material remains behind. But modern archeological techniques are quite capable of tracing even the very meager remains of hunter-gatherers and pastoral nomads all over the world. Indeed, the archaeological record from the Sinai peninsula discloses evidence for pastoral activity in such eras as the third millennium B.C.E. and the Hellenistic and Byzantine periods. There is simply no such evidence at the supposed time of the Exodus in the 13th century B.C.E.

The conclusion--that the Exodus did not happen at the time and in the manner described in the Bible--seems irrefutable when we examine the evidence at specific sites where the children of Israel were said to have camped for extended periods during their wandering in the desert (Numbers 33) and where some archaeological indication--if present--would almost certainly be found.

According to the biblical narrative, the children of Israel camped at Kadesh-barnea for 38 of the 40 years of the wanderings. The general location of this place is clear from the description of the southern border of the land of Israel in Numbers 34. It has been identified by archaeologists with the large and well-watered oasis of Ein el-Quedeirat in eastern Sinai, on the border of modern Israel and Egypt. The name Kadesh was probably preserved over the centuries in the name of a nearby smaller spring called Ein Qadis. A small mound with the remains of a Late Iron Age fort stands at the center of this oasis. Yet repeated excavations and surveys throughout the entire area have not provided the slightest evidence for activity in the Late Bronze Age, not even a single sherd left by a tiny fleeing band of frightened refugees."

From 'The Bible Unearthed' by Israel Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman. Copyright (C) 2001

* * *

[arielmessenger]

"By MICHAEL MASSING

Tony Cenicola/The New York Times

("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), a new Torah and commentary, offers new findings in biblical research, which cast doubt on stories like that in Raphael's "Crossing the Red Sea."

Excerpts From 'Etz Hayim' Essays (March 9, 2002):

"Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Such startling propositions — the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years — have gained wide acceptance among non- Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity — until now.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

"When I grew up in Brooklyn, congregants were not sophisticated about anything," said Rabbi Harold Kushner, the author of "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" and a co-editor of the new book. "Today, they are very sophisticated and well read about psychology, literature and history, but they are locked in a childish version of the Bible."

"Etz Hayim," compiled by David Lieber of the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, seeks to change that. It offers the standard Hebrew text, a parallel English translation (edited by Chaim Potok, best known as the author of "The Chosen"), a page-by-page exegesis, periodic commentaries on Jewish practice and, at the end, 41 essays by prominent rabbis and scholars on topics ranging from the Torah scroll and dietary laws to ecology and eschatology.

These essays, perused during uninspired sermons or Torah readings at Sabbath services, will no doubt surprise many congregants. For instance, an essay on Ancient Near Eastern Mythology," by Robert Wexler, president of the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, states that on the basis of modern scholarship, it seems unlikely that the story of Genesis originated in Palestine. More likely, Mr. Wexler says, it arose in Mesopotamia, the influence of which is most apparent in the story of the Flood, which probably grew out of the periodic overflowing of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The story of Noah, Mr. Wexler adds, was probably borrowed from the Mesopotamian epic Gilgamesh.

Equally striking for many readers will be the essay "Biblical Archaeology," by Lee I. Levine, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. "There is no reference in Egyptian sources to Israel's sojourn in that country," he writes, "and the evidence that does exist is negligible and indirect." The few indirect pieces of evidence, like the use of Egyptian names, he adds, "are far from adequate to corroborate the historicity of the biblical account."

Similarly ambiguous, Mr. Levine writes, is the evidence of the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, he says, "clearly seem to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua." What's more, he says, there is an "almost total absence of archaeological evidence" backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon.

The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "litany of disillusion" about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel — not one shard of pottery."

The reaction to the rabbi's talk ranged from admiration at his courage to dismay at his timing to anger at his audacity. Reported in Jewish publications around the world, the sermon brought him a flood of letters accusing him of undermining the most fundamental teachings of Judaism. But he also received many messages of support. "I can't tell you how many rabbis called me, e- mailed me and wrote me, saying, `God bless you for saying what we all believe,' " Rabbi Wolpe said. He attributes the "explosion" set off by his sermon to "the reluctance of rabbis to say what they really believe."

Before the introduction of "Etz Hayim," the Conservative movement relied on the Torah commentary of Joseph Hertz, the chief rabbi of the British Commonwealth. By 1936, when it was issued, the Hebrew Bible had come under intense scrutiny from scholars like Julius Wellhausen of Germany, who raised many questions about the text's authorship and accuracy. Hertz, working in an era of rampant anti-Semitism and of Christian efforts to demonstrate the inferiority of the "Old" Testament to the "New," dismissed all doubts about the integrity of the text.

Maintaining that no people would have invented for themselves so "disgraceful" a past as that of being slaves in a foreign land, he wrote that "of all Oriental chronicles, it is only the Biblical annals that deserve the name of history."

The Hertz approach had little competition until 1981, when the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the official arm of Reform Judaism, published its own Torah commentary. Edited by Rabbi Gunther Plaut, it took note of the growing body of archaeological and textual evidence that called the accuracy of the biblical account into question. The "tales" of Genesis, it flatly stated, were a mix of "myth, legend, distant memory and search for origins, bound together by the strands of a central theological concept." But Exodus, it insisted, belonged in "the realm of history." While there are scholars who consider the Exodus story to be "folk tales," the commentary observed, "this is a minority view."

Not among Orthodox Jews, however. They continue to regard the Torah as the divine and immutable word of God. Their most widely used Torah commentary, known as the Stone Edition (1993), declares in its introduction "that every letter and word of the Torah was given to Moses by God."

Lawrence Schiffman, a professor at New York University and an Orthodox Jew, said that "Etz Hayim" goes so far in accepting modern scholarship that, without realizing it, it ends up being in "nihilistic opposition" to what Conservative Jews stand for. He noted, however, that most of the questions about the Bible's accuracy had been tucked away discreetly in the back. "The average synagogue-goer is never going to look there," he said.

Even some Conservative rabbis feel uncomfortable with the depth of the doubting. "I think the basic historicity of the text is valid and verifiable," said Susan Grossman, the rabbi of Beth Shalom Congregation in Columbia, Md., and a co-editor of "Etz Hayim." As for the mounting archaeological evidence suggesting the contrary, Rabbi Grossman said: "There's no evidence that it didn't happen. Most of the `evidence' is evidence from silence."

"The real issue for me is the eternal truths that are in the text," she added. "How do we apply this hallowed text to the 21st century?" One way, she said, is to make it more relevant to women. Rabbi Grossman is one of many women who worked on "Etz Hayim," in an effort to temper the Bible's heavily patriarchal orientation and make the text more palatable to modern readers. For example, the passage in Genesis that describes how the aged Sarah laughed upon hearing God say that she would bear a son is traditionally interpreted as a laugh of incredulity. In its commentary, however, "Etz Hayim" suggests that her laughter "may not be a response to the far- fetched notion of pregnancy at an advanced age, but the laughter of delight at the prospect of two elderly people resuming marital intimacy."

con't..

[arielmessenger]

In a project of such complexity, there were inevitably many points of disagreement. But Rabbi Kushner says the only one that eluded resolution concerned Leviticus 18:22: "Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence." "We couldn't come to a formulation that we could all be comfortable with," the rabbi said. "Some people felt that homosexuality is wrong. We weren't prepared to embrace that as the Conservative position. But at the same time we couldn't say this is a mentality that has been disproved by contemporary biology, for not everyone was prepared to go along with that." Ultimately, the editors settled on an anodyne compromise, noting that the Torah's prohibitions on homosexual relations "have engendered considerable debate" and that Conservative synagogues should "welcome gay and lesbian congregants in all congregational activities."

Since the fall, when "Etz Hayim" was issued, more than 100,000 copies have been sold. Eventually, it is expected to become the standard Bible in the nation's 760 Conservative synagogues.

Mark S. Smith, a professor of Bible and Near Eastern Studies at New York University, noted that the Hertz commentary had lasted 65 years. "That's incredible," he said. "If `Etz Hayim' isn't around for 50 years or more, I'd be surprised."

Its longevity, however, may depend on the pace of archaeological discovery."

* * *

[arielmessenger]

Jewish fraud where European religious converts can pretend to be "Semites" and given a "Homeland" by more Europeans simply by taking with force of arms the land of real Semites..

I do believe Judaism has spawned more fantastic religious lies than any other religion still in operation but because we are such great story tellers the world's actually believed this hokum..

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: shrike Do you know how much Arabs countries received from USSR until it was dissolved?

Not much. Just read about Russia's economic situation of that time... you will get your answer.

[Ibn_Sina]

Quote by: GHook93 The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE The Jews had a large kingdom in the M.E. and it has been trampelled on by the Assyrians, Babolyians, Persian (althought they treated the Jews well), Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arab Crusaders, Christian Crusaders, Arabs again and Finally the Turks! To say they have no claim to the lands is blaspheme!

:) OF COURSE official Israerli sources would want you to believe that exaggerated piece of crap. It is quite true, but not exactly. In most parts of the Islamic empire, Jews were treated with respect.

GHook93, I been reading the philosophy board last week and I think I read one of your posts, which certainly made me think you are an atheist. Now, to make Israel legitimate, you are using the "King Solomon/David" story as your source? That's fraud.

[shrike]

OF COURSE official Israerli sources would want you to believe that exaggerated piece of crap. It is quite true, but not exactly. In most parts of the Islamic empire, Jews were treated with respect.

Only there were oppressed and were second class citizens that hadn't the same right as a Muslims