Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

tinybear · Jul 3, 2007, 06:06 am

Japan's Defence Minister Fumio Kyuma has resigned amid a furore over comments he made about the US atom bomb attacks on Japan during World War II.

His apology, and a public rebuke from PM Shinzo Abe, failed to quell anger over his remarks that the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were inevitable.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan minister quits over gaffe

Yep, a Japanese politician quits over this remark, but many others get away with denying the Nanking Massacre ever took place and visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to pay homage to Japanese Class A WWII war criminals, including Hideki Tojo.

Zeebadee · Jul 3, 2007, 11:52 am

Well, what would happen to a U.S. politician that said the attacks of 9/11 was "something that couldn't be helped".?

tinybear · Jul 3, 2007, 01:45 pm

What would happen if the German Chancellor authorized the erection of a memorial in Berlin to pay homage to Adolf Hitler and if German MPs denied the Holocaust ever took place?

Jern_Sandyer · Jul 3, 2007, 08:36 pm

Then Iran would come over and tell them to be controversial about something else because that is thier gig

gallo · Jul 5, 2007, 02:28 am

Would that American politicians had the honor to resign when they were caught in a lie. Wait. I guess that would leave us without an executive branch. Who gets to be President when the President and the Vice-President both are forced to resign because of loss of face?

I'm sorry. That doesn't happen in this country. When both the President and the Vice President disgrace themselves, they are allowed to continue in office. Not only is saving face not an issue, popularity polls below 30% are also meaningless. Let's just continue to kill our young men in trumped up wars.

Note: I support our soldiers. I served during the Viet Nam era when our uniforms were spit on by protesters. My son is now a SSGT in the Army, still recovering from his most recent operation to remove scar tissue from his ankle. Support of our soldiers is not a question. Support of our lying President is.

tinybear · Jul 5, 2007, 02:41 am

Did the Japanese minister tell a lie? Was it or was it not the case that the dropping of the A-Bombs was a last resort? At the end of day it didn't matter one way or the other. The remark angered the Japanese people and he had to resign.

gallo · Jul 5, 2007, 03:06 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Did the Japanese minister tell a lie? Was it or was it not the case that the dropping of the A-Bombs was a last resort? At the end of day it didn't matter one way or the other. The remark angered the Japanese people and he had to resign.

But that's pretty much the point. Our President did tell a lie. There was no yellow-cake sale to Iraq, there were not WMD, Iraq did not support Al Qaeda in any form, there were no training camps in Iraq. We invaded another nation for trumped up reasons. We stayed because we should "stay the course" or "finish the job." Troop levels were sufficient, in spite of the advice of the military, until it became apparent that we were not able to control the situation. Suddenly, the Bush administration made an about face and declared that the answer was a troop surge. We were the liberators until we found that we were in the middle of a civil war. What kind of idiots led us into this mess? Could it be a President who got into the National Guard because his daddy pulled strings and then he didn't have the balls to actually finish his obligation? Could it be a President who was more concerned with overthrowing Saddam than understanding the situation that would result? Dubya actually thought that U.S. troops would be welcomed as heroes and that the overthrow of Iraq would begin a democratic revolution in the near east. Neither side in the civil war that we started is democratic. There is no sign of democratic revolutions in any other country in the region. How stupid is our President?

tinybear · Jul 5, 2007, 03:15 am

The point is: it doesn't matter whether a politician lies or not. The pertinent consideration is whether his remarks angers enough of the people to trigger off his resignation or downfall. Clinton lied. Under oath too. But did that bring about his downfall? No. Tony Blair probably lied too. OK, he's gone now, but not because of having lied. Politicians in a liberal democracy are forced out of office not because of lying per se, but because their electorate doesn't like what they say.

Politicians in an authoritarian state, on the other hand, can say whatever they like provided they toe the official line of the ruling elite. It matters not what the public thinks. :)

Jul 3, 2007, 06:06 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Japan minister quits over gaffe Japan's Defence Minister Fumio Kyuma has resigned amid a furore over comments he made about the US atom bomb attacks on Japan during World War II. His apology, and a public rebuke from PM Shinzo Abe, failed to quell anger over his remarks that the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were inevitable. BBC NEWS \| Asia-Pacific \| Japan minister quits over gaffe Yep, a Japanese politician quits over this remark, but many others get away with denying the Nanking Massacre ever took place and visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to pay homage to Japanese Class A WWII war criminals, including Hideki Tojo.

Jul 3, 2007, 11:52 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	Well, what would happen to a U.S. politician that said the attacks of 9/11 was "something that couldn't be helped".? "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jul 3, 2007, 08:36 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Jern_Sandyer Devil's Advocate Location: Alberta Posts: 136	Then Iran would come over and tell them to be controversial about something else because that is thier gig Jern_Sandyer is the local Devil's Advocate Number 1 I doubt my sanity; yet again I doubt yours as well

Jul 5, 2007, 02:28 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
gallo Homo sapiens Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,067	Would that American politicians had the honor to resign when they were caught in a lie. Wait. I guess that would leave us without an executive branch. Who gets to be President when the President and the Vice-President both are forced to resign because of loss of face? I'm sorry. That doesn't happen in this country. When both the President and the Vice President disgrace themselves, they are allowed to continue in office. Not only is saving face not an issue, popularity polls below 30% are also meaningless. Let's just continue to kill our young men in trumped up wars. Note: I support our soldiers. I served during the Viet Nam era when our uniforms were spit on by protesters. My son is now a SSGT in the Army, still recovering from his most recent operation to remove scar tissue from his ankle. Support of our soldiers is not a question. Support of our lying President is. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;... --From Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli passed unanimously by the Senate 1797

Jul 3, 2007, 01:45 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	What would happen if the German Chancellor authorized the erection of a memorial in Berlin to pay homage to Adolf Hitler and if German MPs denied the Holocaust ever took place?

Jul 5, 2007, 02:41 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	Did the Japanese minister tell a lie? Was it or was it not the case that the dropping of the A-Bombs was a last resort? At the end of day it didn't matter one way or the other. The remark angered the Japanese people and he had to resign.

Jul 5, 2007, 03:15 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,085	The point is: it doesn't matter whether a politician lies or not. The pertinent consideration is whether his remarks angers enough of the people to trigger off his resignation or downfall. Clinton lied. Under oath too. But did that bring about his downfall? No. Tony Blair probably lied too. OK, he's gone now, but not because of having lied. Politicians in a liberal democracy are forced out of office not because of lying per se, but because their electorate doesn't like what they say. Politicians in an authoritarian state, on the other hand, can say whatever they like provided they toe the official line of the ruling elite. It matters not what the public thinks. :)