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Section 8 · Oct 20, 2003, 11:10 am

There can be no mercenary or drug baron for lack of money. Pedophiles will be treated instead of punished. Castille, I don't think your rich. We still need the gutter cleaners, builders, etc. So why do we have to treat them unfairly. Just because you don't have an education doesn't mean you should not be treated with equality.

G. Adams · Oct 20, 2003, 02:11 pm

sweet, please carry on Section 8, i'm getting tired of repeating myself. it really is like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes. and these posts get longer and longer....

Impenitent · Oct 20, 2003, 05:50 pm

G.

"Well for a dying set of countries they are doing, collectively, a lot better than the US, except military wise." have you seen the censuses? the great youth of europe?

"It is my natural born instinct to get as many women pregnant as possible after all. Well oddly I have 'self-control'. It means I can actually think through whether I want to do something or not." whatever... that is not what I meant and you know it... but if you had the power to do so, you would... you don't have the power and you have convinced yourself that some moral code of right and wrong controls people... reread your Nietzsche... but I know you, you are dreaming of the power to control everyone through "communist" means... just another power hungry human who can't exersize his frustrations...

"what difference is the US military going to make that we can't?" no, when the us leaves, the us leaves and takes back everything leaving you totally defenseless...

" there is no-one waiting to invade Europe" maybe not... but the muslim fundamentalists who want to conquer the world in the name of allah would disagree... and you still think they don't want to take a piece of you?

"Do you really think that the nuclear armed countries (China, India, Pakistan, Israel, France and Britain) will sit back and watch you conquer them?" sorry, when we leave europe, we take the nukes back... china and pakistan would see no danger from invading defenseless europe...

"You have brilliant technology, but not the soldiers to use it." yep, I agree... the american soldier is not as good as one could be, of course we know the Israelis are the best, but that isn't the point, some fat yahoo with a joystick in virginia could pinpoint a strike ANYWHERE and at any time and totally erradicate a single target, a square block, a square mile, a whole country... why do you think we have neutron bombs?

"Or are you so backwards that you believe there are set values for countries and continents, that are totally unchangable?" again, you missed the point, I was stating historical fact and the attitude of americans is decendent from european values... did you change your mind? so what? we didn't.

TwoShanks · Oct 20, 2003, 11:59 pm

In my opinion, the most intensely annoying thing ever used in debates outside christian fundamentalism is to claim "the Nazis did X" or "the Nazis came to power because of Y". Most people have no real idea of the mechanisms and causes of the Nazi rise, and if they did then they would realise that it's an extremely complex subject with no single causes.

It's almost 5am and I am trying not to rant.

Once, just once, can we leave the Nazis out of a debate about politics? Or at least learn a little more about the subject than GCSE History teaches you?

G. Adams · Oct 23, 2003, 07:03 am

oy, GCSE history is good stuff depending on who the examining board was, the one that gave out Vietnam as a coursework module for 2001 exams was good.

castille · Oct 24, 2003, 08:08 am

You still haven't explained how a "Communist utopia" will deal with uncertainties.

Or why theres never been a successful Communist country in the 50 million years of human history.

castille · Oct 24, 2003, 08:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
Castille, I don't think your rich. We still need the gutter cleaners, builders, etc. So why do we have to treat them unfairly.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I never said I was rich. Why don't you learn to read? I simply said that your "evil capitalists" do as much dirty work as any labourer. We don't sit around counting money, we are usually out there seeking it. Perhaps left-wing university professors are encouaging that opinion due to their jealousy?

We don't treat labourers unfairly. Miners earn $64,000AUD on average in their first year. Doctors earn $40,000AUD average in their first year. Lawyers earn $30,000AUD.

Most builders make as much money as a doctor or an executive. Its HOW they choose to spend the money that matters. Some of my friends make more money than I do - but their lifestyle means they dont have any left.

Section 8 · Oct 24, 2003, 10:16 am

Castille, you say you aren't rich. Then you call yourself a capitalist, which makes no sense.

In the US, doctors make around 80-150,000 a year while lawyers can make up to a quarter of a million. Landscapers, builders, etc. get payed around 25k.

castille · Oct 25, 2003, 04:55 am

The ignorance of Communism is astounding.

Just because I'm a capitalist doesn't mean I have to be rich. Teachers, miners, doctors, students, and anyone can be a capitalist.

So if all capitalists have to be rich....then all Communists have to be starving. You're not a Communist Section 8, since you can afford the Internet.

And where do you get your statistics? Builders and landscapers being paid $25K? Have you ever gone into the real world? I know of many landscapers who are being paid $4 million for a single project. The building boom has created builders earning up to $200,000 for a SINGLE construction setup (2 months).

The average doctor is paid $67,000 in Australia, and the average lawyer is $30,000 first year) with averaged of $89,000. There are very few lawyers being paid "millions".

Section 8 · Oct 25, 2003, 11:55 am

Akkkkk, sorry for the confusion. In some text capitalist is another name for the bourgeousie. My experience is that I used to be a landscaper, and I got paid 6.50 an hour. I've also been a mason assisstant in which I was getting paid 8.00 an hour. The only lawyer that I know that gets paid 30k are public defenders.

G. Adams · Oct 26, 2003, 01:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
The ignorance of Communism is astounding.

Just because I'm a capitalist doesn't mean I have to be rich. Teachers, miners, doctors, students, and anyone can be a capitalist.

So if all capitalists have to be rich....then all Communists have to be starving. You're not a Communist Section 8, since you can afford the Internet.

And where do you get your statistics? Builders and landscapers being paid $25K? Have you ever gone into the real world? I know of many landscapers who are being paid $4 million for a single project. The building boom has created builders earning up to $200,000 for a SINGLE construction setup (2 months).

The average doctor is paid $67,000 in Australia, and the average lawyer is $30,000 first year) with averaged of $89,000. There are very few lawyers being paid "millions".<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No, your getting your definitions all mixed up now Castille. A capitalist is an owner of capital, and uses that capital to create more wealth. As a class, they are known as the bourgoisie. A worker is someone who uses their labour to create wealth. As a class, the workers are known as the proleteriat.

Now you could be a supporter of capitalism, Castille, but unless you own enough capital in order to make it work for you, then you are not a proper capitalist. If you don't have that capital in order to run your business, then it is the bank or whichever backer you have, that is the capitalist in your organisation.

Oct 20, 2003, 02:11 pm	#42 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	sweet, please carry on Section 8, i'm getting tired of repeating myself. it really is like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes. and these posts get longer and longer.... Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 20, 2003, 05:50 pm	#43 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	G. "Well for a dying set of countries they are doing, collectively, a lot better than the US, except military wise." have you seen the censuses? the great youth of europe? "It is my natural born instinct to get as many women pregnant as possible after all. Well oddly I have 'self-control'. It means I can actually think through whether I want to do something or not." whatever... that is not what I meant and you know it... but if you had the power to do so, you would... you don't have the power and you have convinced yourself that some moral code of right and wrong controls people... reread your Nietzsche... but I know you, you are dreaming of the power to control everyone through "communist" means... just another power hungry human who can't exersize his frustrations... "what difference is the US military going to make that we can't?" no, when the us leaves, the us leaves and takes back everything leaving you totally defenseless... " there is no-one waiting to invade Europe" maybe not... but the muslim fundamentalists who want to conquer the world in the name of allah would disagree... and you still think they don't want to take a piece of you? "Do you really think that the nuclear armed countries (China, India, Pakistan, Israel, France and Britain) will sit back and watch you conquer them?" sorry, when we leave europe, we take the nukes back... china and pakistan would see no danger from invading defenseless europe... "You have brilliant technology, but not the soldiers to use it." yep, I agree... the american soldier is not as good as one could be, of course we know the Israelis are the best, but that isn't the point, some fat yahoo with a joystick in virginia could pinpoint a strike ANYWHERE and at any time and totally erradicate a single target, a square block, a square mile, a whole country... why do you think we have neutron bombs? "Or are you so backwards that you believe there are set values for countries and continents, that are totally unchangable?" again, you missed the point, I was stating historical fact and the attitude of americans is decendent from european values... did you change your mind? so what? we didn't. "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 23, 2003, 07:03 am	#45 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	oy, GCSE history is good stuff depending on who the examining board was, the one that gave out Vietnam as a coursework module for 2001 exams was good. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 24, 2003, 08:08 am	#46 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	You still haven't explained how a "Communist utopia" will deal with uncertainties. Or why theres never been a successful Communist country in the 50 million years of human history. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 24, 2003, 08:11 am	#47 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) Castille, I don't think your rich. We still need the gutter cleaners, builders, etc. So why do we have to treat them unfairly.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I never said I was rich. Why don't you learn to read? I simply said that your "evil capitalists" do as much dirty work as any labourer. We don't sit around counting money, we are usually out there seeking it. Perhaps left-wing university professors are encouaging that opinion due to their jealousy? We don't treat labourers unfairly. Miners earn $64,000AUD on average in their first year. Doctors earn $40,000AUD average in their first year. Lawyers earn $30,000AUD. Most builders make as much money as a doctor or an executive. Its HOW they choose to spend the money that matters. Some of my friends make more money than I do - but their lifestyle means they dont have any left. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 20, 2003, 11:10 am	#41 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	There can be no mercenary or drug baron for lack of money. Pedophiles will be treated instead of punished. Castille, I don't think your rich. We still need the gutter cleaners, builders, etc. So why do we have to treat them unfairly. Just because you don't have an education doesn't mean you should not be treated with equality.

Oct 20, 2003, 11:59 pm	#44 (permalink) (top)
TwoShanks Molten Ash Posts: 29	In my opinion, the most intensely annoying thing ever used in debates outside christian fundamentalism is to claim "the Nazis did X" or "the Nazis came to power because of Y". Most people have no real idea of the mechanisms and causes of the Nazi rise, and if they did then they would realise that it's an extremely complex subject with no single causes. It's almost 5am and I am trying not to rant. Once, just once, can we leave the Nazis out of a debate about politics? Or at least learn a little more about the subject than GCSE History teaches you?

Oct 24, 2003, 10:16 am	#48 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Castille, you say you aren't rich. Then you call yourself a capitalist, which makes no sense. In the US, doctors make around 80-150,000 a year while lawyers can make up to a quarter of a million. Landscapers, builders, etc. get payed around 25k.

Oct 25, 2003, 04:55 am	#49 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	The ignorance of Communism is astounding. Just because I'm a capitalist doesn't mean I have to be rich. Teachers, miners, doctors, students, and anyone can be a capitalist. So if all capitalists have to be rich....then all Communists have to be starving. You're not a Communist Section 8, since you can afford the Internet. And where do you get your statistics? Builders and landscapers being paid $25K? Have you ever gone into the real world? I know of many landscapers who are being paid $4 million for a single project. The building boom has created builders earning up to $200,000 for a SINGLE construction setup (2 months). The average doctor is paid $67,000 in Australia, and the average lawyer is $30,000 first year) with averaged of $89,000. There are very few lawyers being paid "millions". Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 25, 2003, 11:55 am	#50 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Akkkkk, sorry for the confusion. In some text capitalist is another name for the bourgeousie. My experience is that I used to be a landscaper, and I got paid 6.50 an hour. I've also been a mason assisstant in which I was getting paid 8.00 an hour. The only lawyer that I know that gets paid 30k are public defenders.

Oct 26, 2003, 01:32 pm	#51 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) The ignorance of Communism is astounding. Just because I'm a capitalist doesn't mean I have to be rich. Teachers, miners, doctors, students, and anyone can be a capitalist. So if all capitalists have to be rich....then all Communists have to be starving. You're not a Communist Section 8, since you can afford the Internet. And where do you get your statistics? Builders and landscapers being paid $25K? Have you ever gone into the real world? I know of many landscapers who are being paid $4 million for a single project. The building boom has created builders earning up to $200,000 for a SINGLE construction setup (2 months). The average doctor is paid $67,000 in Australia, and the average lawyer is $30,000 first year) with averaged of $89,000. There are very few lawyers being paid "millions".<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No, your getting your definitions all mixed up now Castille. A capitalist is an owner of capital, and uses that capital to create more wealth. As a class, they are known as the bourgoisie. A worker is someone who uses their labour to create wealth. As a class, the workers are known as the proleteriat. Now you could be a supporter of capitalism, Castille, but unless you own enough capital in order to make it work for you, then you are not a proper capitalist. If you don't have that capital in order to run your business, then it is the bank or whichever backer you have, that is the capitalist in your organisation. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill