bush is going down

[Sonart]

You said you supported the war in Afghanistan to give some sense of objectivity (see, look, I CAN support wars).

You really are a cheap shot artist, aren't you. Yes, I believe it does show some sense of objectivity.

The Soviets were trying to CONQUER. We are not.

{long confused stare}



We didn't conquer Iraq by force of arms and install our own puppet government? Do you honestly believe we'll allow Iraqis to elect a government that opposes our policies?

I guess I'm just a sheep being led by the nose by the mass media, huh?

Excellent. You're catching on.

Because I have yet to read a logical arguement as to why evil Bush is "bombing thousands of Iraqi children." ... Is is the whole petrodollar thing that makes these horrible republican warmongers so eager for blood and death? Nobody answered me in that thread.

This wouldn't be "politicized rhetoric" would it? He's "bombing thousands of Iraqi children" to replace a geo-political nuisance with an islamic geo-political surrogate, one with 14 U.S. military bases. Why? Because this is the Bush/Cheney oil cabinet and we're talking about 25% of our foreign oil imports.

[Sean]

I deleted UrNotMeRU's repulsive posts, after getting a record 10 reports, and banned him. I hope this topic can stay on topic now that he's gone.

[tusaki]

Originally posted by Sean, I deleted UrNotMeRU's repulsive posts, after getting a record 10 reports, and banned him. I hope this topic can stay on topic now that he's gone.

No doubt it will be explained as 'see, see, the lefties have done it again!'. But I agree with the decision.

[PatrickHenry]

IMO, that was URnotmeRU's goal from day 1 on volconvo. Getting 86ed.

[Osborn F Enready]

Ditto, nice to see that those who can't debate or present SOME facts for their side, who constantly use slurs, degradations and name calling are handled in a way that benefits the forum.

There are many intelligent people here, and those who act like children just bring it down for everyone. I hate seeing people get banned, but this is a VOLUNTARY forum, with rules and guidelines. To bend the rules to make a valid point, I think is often overlooked, and sometimes necessary. Ur was just good at insults, and reducing things to a playground shouting match.

It is appreciated by those who value debate Shawn, thanks.

[m3talsmith]

...

Removed comments towards URnotmeRU. Thanks again Sean.

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by Sean, I deleted UrNotMeRU's repulsive posts, after getting a record 10 reports, and banned him. I hope this topic can stay on topic now that he's gone.

Thank you sean. He's been a thorn in my side at least for a week with his comments.

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by Comrade, Because I have yet to read a logical arguement as to why evil Bush is "bombing thousands of Iraqi children." And when I hear rhetoric like that, I see it as the BS it is, and it makes me more willing to believe the other side. I'd have no problem believing our elected leaders are inhumane, if there were some sort of evidence and logical reasoning behind it. So far, the Petro-Dollar vs. Euro arguement is the only one I've read that even attempts to explain why we are Iraq, if not to liberate Iraqis, and I know well enough that I know little enough of economics to verify whether that holds water or not. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I think you might want to read "The New American" or other writings from the "John Birch Society". They have a lot of good, and some flawed, views on the New World Order and the Counsel On Foreign Relations. Especially interesting is the CFR's role in American history and especially as relates to our politicians. (Beware of the extreme conter propaganda out there though: it's easy to get caught up in theories without proof).

--edit-- edited typo.

[dotcoma]

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Those days are long gone if they ever even existed...

[Osborn F Enready]

They exist as long as people begin to ONCE AGAIN, START DEMANDING THEIR RIGHTS, and STOP BEING COERCED INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT.

[Mia]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, IMO, that was URnotmeRU's goal from day 1 on volconvo. Getting 86ed.

It had to be - he never said even one thing that made any sense.

What are we going to do now, bash the guy for six pages and call it "content"? :rolleyes:

[PatrickHenry]

Truth, in response: No that's not the purpose of the thread and it will return to normal. Did you read his repulsive post before Sean deleted it? It was unworthy of this substantive site.

As I recall, I suggested some positive things to your friend after he challenged my "or else." I found the same objectionable behavior in your posts and replied that both of you should take heed. I don't want anyone banned for their (misguided)views. But the place is about civilized discourse and posters need to make arguments that work, with sources, not just flaming and stone throwing.

Is there any issue you feel strongly about? Why not make an argument for it? That's the challenge here, clearly stating a position and defending it. Won't you try it?

edit typo

Hey if I get the or else that is fine with me Pat. I dont have time to meander with online one sided ultimatums. Maybe you didnt see what I was getting at, is Mia debating now? The guy is GONE, get on with it already and stop the dog and pony show.

[PatrickHenry]

Yeah, you're right, Truth.

Thank you.

[waterfalllife]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, They exist as long as people begin to ONCE AGAIN, START DEMANDING THEIR RIGHTS, and STOP BEING COERCED INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT.

Completely and 100% right there Osborn. This country was founded by the people, for the people, and from the people. I love the ideals that the framers (blame that term on my old former high schools revised history textbooks) had set forth to hold true to us. Unfortunately, in this day and age we have deviated so far from that that todays society is slightly blind to the fact that we have the real power. We elect, we choose, we decide. The Fat Cats on Capitol Hill have us chanting to the same tune of "representative government" that most of society will never learn this. Its the same idea of the square block into the circle hole. It wont go in until you hit it hard enough. I would love to point a finger at one thing and say thats the cause, but it isnt just one thing. Its a whole slew of things that have piled up over the years.

[Osborn F Enready]

Waterfalllife, check this thread out;

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?s...?showtopic=1118

That is pretty much where I stand, from all that I have found.

[JoshuaRGodinez]

Anyone know of any good sites or other methods of getting information that show data more than rhetoric? When I want to check on the relationship between test scores, graduation rates, or income level to government funding of education I can't seem to find anything. Government sites never seem to give numbers. I never did a major research project so I'm not so great at making the connections other than what common sense tells me. Come to think of it, is there a good site that details how to put together research?

Osborn, you had a lot of data, but it seemed like some of your foundation was shaky. A cursory scan of recent Supreme Court decisions shows affirmation of the current methods of collection of income tax (Portland Golf Club v. Commissioner). Also, judicial review is a debatable topic all on its own with original intent not an agreed upon basis for which to allow it (Jefferson disagreed).

What it really comes down to is what the current court says it can do and what the people allow it to say. This may explain why the court decided to side-step the "under God" case. They've painted themselves into a corner (trying to establish separation of church and state, which, in my opinion, they have no constitutional authority to do) which will be so unpopular it may induce a national movement to amend the constitution to require the government to recognize religion.

As the originator of this thread clearly displayed, politics plays a part in everything (if I may paraphrase Johnny Cochran). Law is only allowed to prevail when it reinforces public will or puts the knock-out blow on a movement already in motion (desegregation). Since I'm in the minority opinion that most government functions are more trouble than benefit, I'll skulk on the internet and send money to the most-likely candidate to win whose views are less conflicted with mine.

[bishop]

actually, the government's various agencies give all of that information out on their websites. you just need to look harder.