Political Leanings

[Catch 22]

After cavorting about the board for the past couple months I’ve noticed that there is a pronounced amount of libertarians. With this in mind I wanted to verify my observations, so everyone vote please I'd like a decent sized sample.

[Sonart]

Well Catch, I've been cavorting around on a variety of boards like this for about 10 years now, and I can also attest to a pronounced number of Libertarians on most or all of them, certainly more than I seem to run across in daily life (although most people don't really divulge their political views as willingly as folks here do). Most, however, seem to come from the right side of the Libertarian scale.

Perhaps, feeling left out of the political process, they're drawn to expressing themselves on boards such as this one although, not being a Libertarian, I certainly can't speak for them.

[Catch 22]

hehe perhaps. In all truth this is the first board where I've seen the libs make up such a disproportionate group of the active memberbase. Most boards I got to are normally leftist, centrist, or conservative never very libertarian. On one of my favorite boards www.globalteen.net/forum we have only one house libertarian and leftists outnumber him 30 to 1.

[sixmillman]

There was a book from a writer at Wired magazine that addressed that Litertarianism was quite common amongst computer programers, geeks and hackers. Cyberselfish she called it.

Here's the link

[Catch 22]

Originally posted by sixmillman, There was a book from a writer at Wired magazine that addressed that Litertarianism was quite common amongst computer programers, geeks and hackers. Cyberselfish she called it. Here's the link

Thanks for the article six I'll be sure to read it.

[Poetic_Justice]

she's a dolt
She obviously doesn't like to think logically so she just ignores philosophy and prefers to call names and refer to Ad Hominems, Appeals to force, and appeals to popularity

[bishop]

i still consider myself to be a mainstream conservative (like john mccain). although to some, the definition of that term may be skewed thanks to curious george.

[onasis]

I like libertarianism alot, but I'm just a sucker for the working class.

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by onasis, I like libertarianism alot, but I'm just a sucker for the working class.

That's a good reason to like Libertarianism then.

[onasis]

Free Market Capitalism is not commonly associated with worker's rights.

[sixmillman]

Catch22
I'm curious as to where the descriptions in your poll came from?
Academic libertarianism rejects the idea that it can be placed on a linear graph interpretation (right, left conservative, liberal) but must be viewed as being on another plane.
The fact that some can describe themselves as Far left libertarian (Socialist/Marxist/anarchist) and others as Far right libertarian (anarcho capitalist, minarchist) tends to reflect the incoherence of “libertarian” as a political party. And it certainly explains the internal squabbling and ineffectiveness of the Libertarian Party

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by onasis, Free Market Capitalism is not commonly associated with worker's rights.

Workers rights (free market) or workers theft (communism)? You'll have to define this a little more for me to fully understand where you are comming from. Please do as I am very opened minded (as in I'll admit I'm wrong if proven so and willing to accept new ideas after they are proven) and interested.

I'm especially interested in economics and workers rights. I am getting ready to turn my freelance work into a fullfledged business and workers rights has been top on my mind. Any thoughts are welcome thoughts.

[Catch 22]

I'm curious as to where the descriptions in your poll came from? Academic libertarianism rejects the idea that it can be placed on a linear graph interpretation (right, left conservative, liberal) but must be viewed as being on another plane. The fact that some can describe themselves as Far left libertarian (Socialist/Marxist/anarchist) and others as Far right libertarian (anarcho capitalist, minarchist) tends to reflect the incoherence of “libertarian” as a political party. And it certainly explains the internal squabbling and ineffectiveness of the Libertarian Party

I mainly used the political compass scale where right and left are economic views and up and down are civil liberties views. Thus if you are a right libertarian you believe in free market capitalism but also in civil liberties. A leftist libertarian would aptly describe someone like me who is for just about all civil liberties (though I’m undecided on gun rights) but views economic rights not as rights but as forms of exploitation and as infringement on other’s human rights.

Overall the libertarian establishment does seem splintered into numerous factions. So far I’ve seen utilitarians ho are libertarian only when they see it as for the common good. And natural rights advocates who are the people who whine about taxes being theft ad infinitum and think that the slightest government regulation is the pure personification of evil(yes I find nr libs annoying fi you haven’t noticed). I’ve seen Conservative libertarians who like aggressive foreign policy and dislike “judicial activism” and liberal libertarians who think the US is imperialist, agree with the goals of the environmental movement and don’t necessarily see corporations as the greatest things since slice bread. Then of course there are the minarchists and anarcho capitalists who want no state or one of the smallest possible size that only provides defense and where free market economics are the only governing laws. Really it can get rather confusing for me.

[onasis]

Originally posted by m3talsmith,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (m3talsmith,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-onasis, Free Market Capitalism is not commonly associated with worker's rights.

Workers rights (free market) or workers theft (communism)? You'll have to define this a little more for me to fully understand where you are comming from. Please do as I am very opened minded (as in I'll admit I'm wrong if proven so and willing to accept new ideas after they are proven) and interested. [/b][/quote]

Today as well as in earlier times, free markets and less government intervention allows employers to treat worker's like crap. The right to form unions and collectively bargain is completely shut down. Bargaining is an essential tenenment to capitalism that allows fairness, that's why capitalism is seen as such of a bad thing, by some people. It's not advocating communism or not even socialism, it's advocating worker's rights to compete in the market just as commodities would.

I'm especially interested in economics and workers rights. I am getting ready to turn my freelance work into a fullfledged business and workers rights has been top on my mind. Any thoughts are welcome thoughts.

Interesting, if you don't mind me asking, what do you plan on doing?

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by onasis, Interesting, if you don't mind me asking, what do you plan on doing?

I'm building a wireless Infrustructure for southwest Michigan. I have several ISP's working with me. Essentially they been interfering with eachothers service and need a middle man. They approached me to be their middleman.

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by onasis, Today as well as in earlier times, free markets and less government intervention allows employers to treat worker's like crap. The right to form unions and collectively bargain is completely shut down. Bargaining is an essential tenenment to capitalism that allows fairness, that's why capitalism is seen as such of a bad thing, by some people. It's not advocating communism or not even socialism, it's advocating worker's rights to compete in the market just as commodities would.

I tend to think that forced bargaining is a bad way of getting what you want. The only thing I like about unions is that they opt for the only real option available to employees: they walk out. Employers can't run a business if there are no employees. It's like voting but with your feet.

I don't see how having a union in this scenario is different from a free market system where the employees are free to come and go as they please?

Here's the flip side of unions that I've seen though. My wife's uncle works for a paper in detroit. The union 4-5 years ago forced them to strike. He was without a job for that many years. The only way he survived was his wife's job and selling books on amazon. His union would not let him get another job or work for another paper.

So my question is, is it fair to impoverish employees who don't want it? Could you explain how the two systems, in your opinion, are better/worse than each other? In otherwords what are the pros/cons in your opinion?

[onasis]

I understand what you are saying, and I'm fully aware of things that happen like that.

In my state(and I'm sure as others), workers are given the right to join unions and if they choose not to, they recieve full benefits that the union gains. Unions have limited control over who is being hired but they do have the ability to stop someone from being fired.

I don't completely understand your wife's uncle's situation, because I'm more than sure that a union can't stop you from quitting and joining somewhere elseleaving. That would be totally against the basis of unionism.

[Poetic_Justice]

I have never worked in a union job, and I must say, I have also never been exploited or treated like crap by my employers... In fact, my employer have been extremely respectful and caring of anyone who works hard and comes to work on time it seems...

[Catch 22]

Originally posted by Poetic_Justice, I have never worked in a union job, and I must say, I have also never been exploited or treated like crap by my employers... In fact, my employer have been extremely respectful and caring of anyone who works hard and comes to work on time it seems...

but that's not representative of the whole sample now is it?

[m3talsmith]

Originally posted by onasis, In my state(and I'm sure as others), workers are given the right to join unions and if they choose not to, they recieve full benefits that the union gains. Unions have limited control over who is being hired but they do have the ability to stop someone from being fired.

That makes more sense.

Here in Michigan they have strange quirks that allow unions, especially in the Detroit area where He is from (the paper by the way is the Detroit Free Press: aka freep). I think it has something to do with the car industries muscle partially. A lot of testosterone being thrown around there by both sides.