What was it about Reagan?

[Sonart]

I mean no disrespect at the time of Reagan's passing, but at the same time, the question that I've wondered about for years is certainly apparent today. Exactly what is it about Ronald Reagan that's made him a Saint among conservatives and so liked by most Americans?

Was it his ethical, scandal free Administration? How could it be? The Clinton Administration, the "Most Corrupt of All Time" according to some, had a grand total of one misdemeanor conviction. The Reagan Adminstration had a total of 32 criminal convictions, including two National Security Advisors, Robert McFarlane and John Poindexter, while his Secretaries of Defense and State escaped indictment by being pardoned by George H.W. Bush. As to Reagan himself testifying under oath - he either lied or was incompetent.

Was it his honesty and passion for human rights? No, this is the man who looked America and the world in the eye and said, "We do not negotiate with terrorists, because it will only lead to more terrorism", only to turn around and trade arms to a terrorist state in a failed trade for hostages - which, just as he said, led to 6 more hostages being taken - in order to circumvent U.S. law to arm his own terrorists, the Nicaraguan Contras. He also supported death squads in El Salvador and Quatamala, as well as brutally repressive regimes in the Phillipines and Chile.

Was it his brilliant use of our military? It was his order to plop down a Marine expeditianary force in the middle of Beirut Airport, surrounded on three sides by enemy held high ground, with no mission but to sit tight until the local terrorists could put together an attack that blew 240 of our finest to bits, whereupon Reagan promptly had us turn tail and run. So, two days later, he ordered the glorious, if somewhat pointless, invasion of Greneda, a tactical clusterflop that caused more military deaths than our "failure" in Somalia.

Was it his handling of the economy? No, Reaganomics was a disaster. What created the 'Reagan Boom' was dumb luck and the price of oil. During the 70's, two successive oil crises sent the price of oil skyward, tripling - todays dollars - from the 1973 embargo, and then doubling again after the 1978 crisis. However, by the end of the Carter Presidency the U.S. had, through conservation and alternative energy programs, reduced our imports by and incredible 25%, leading to the eventual collapse of OPEC and oil prices. Note that if you lay a graph of inflation rates over a graph of oil prices, they match almost exactly, even to the short spike during the Gulf War.

image -- http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm

image -- http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cf...fm?lesson=EM210

With oil prices dropping from almost $60/bbl to $20/bbl, corporate America found itself awash in new capital, which it promptly spent on leveraged buyouts, junk bonds, designer teapots and real estate... lots and lots of real estate, which, in turn, led to the 1987 S&L crisis. What was left of our economy after that was $250 billion deficit and a $1.7 trillion debt.

So, if his actual presidency was so less than stirling, what exactly was it about Reagan? In a phrase, Reagan became the epitome of Style over Substance.

1. Optmism -- Reagan shares a quality that has made Arnold Schwarzeneger so popular in California and, as much as conservatives hate to hear it, Bill Clinton immensly popular for two terms. Tremendous optimism and good humor. Unlike both Bush's and the Republican Congress created by Newt Gingrich, Reagan ran a relatively mud free and positive campaign, and carried that optimism through his Presidency. Reagan and Tip O'Neil were apparently good friends who often chatted amiably over drinks. Who can imagine such cross-party friendships today?

2. The Great Communicator -- Ronald Reagan was a trained actor and understood how to use theatre craft to promote his agendas. He pretty much invented the photo op and the sound bite, and brought back the Saturday radio address used so well by FDR. Trained to read before a camera, Reagan became the first real TV President, using folksy and heart touching anecdote in place of facts.

3. The Teflon President -- both of these qualities made Reagan so popular among Americans that scandals that would have sunk any other Presidency simply bounced off Reagan.

4. The Great Conservative -- After the disastrous years of the Nixon legacy, both his scandals and his fairly liberal legacy, Reagan proudly came forward with an unapologetically conservative platform, changed the face of the Republican party and Republicans loved it. At last they could once again be proud to be Republican.

5. A Winner -- Reagan not only trounced his presidential opponents, he also trounced the excesses of the American move towards liberalism, and in fact single handedly reversed it. Bill Clinton won the nomination because he ran as a DLC Centrist, and the hard line Liberals were ignored, a legacy of Reagan conservatism.

6. The End of the Cold War -- I will give Reagan credit for this. The Cold War ended on his watch, and while the Soviet Union was ready to topple from the stagnation of the 70's, Reagan was the one who pushed it over.

[Milton Bradley]

Plus, America loves the "Bad Boy".


I am not a Reagan advocate. I see him as another pretenter to the throne. Yet another American President that failed to return us to constitutional governmnet, and therefore, guilty of High Treason, and an agent of some subversive organization. (Al CIAda)

[castille]

Well in a democracy, your skills don't matter, your charisma does.

Bush's skills are not bad, but he looks stupid and speaks stupid so people hate him. Clinton, on the other hand, despite having sex with a kid and not really doing much, had amazing charisma and could entertain a crowd (using non-sexual entertainment fortunately).

Democracy is about who looks good and talks good. "All talk, no action, makes Mr President a much-loved man!".

Originally posted by castille, Well in a democracy, your skills don't matter, your charisma does. Bush's skills are not bad, but he looks stupid and speaks stupid so people hate him. Clinton, on the other hand, despite having sex with a kid and not really doing much, had amazing charisma and could entertain a crowd (using non-sexual entertainment fortunately). Democracy is about who looks good and talks good. "All talk, no action, makes Mr President a much-loved man!".

I couldn't agree more, Castille.

[Sonart]

Bush's skills are not bad, but he looks stupid and speaks stupid so people hate him.

Oh yeah, he's handled the Iraq debacle... er.... libertion like a master.

[The Dunedan]

I've never been able to figure this out either. Ronnie Ray-guns always struck me as, at best, a bumbler with little real idea what he was doing. He spoke well and had stage presence, but that was about it. And that's not even getting into the Iran-Contra/gun control messes which pushed him into the "Treasonous Scumbag" catagory!

[dotcoma]

I like how Reagan promised to "keep the government small" and then he and Bush expanded it by 300%...

[dotcoma]

KILLER, COWARD, CONMAN -
GOOD RIDDANCE, RONNIE REAGAN
MORE PROOF ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG
Sunday, June 6, 2004
by Greg Palast


You're not going to like this. You shouldn't speak ill of the dead. But in this
case, someone's got to.

Ronald Reagan was a conman. Reagan was a coward. Reagan was a killer.

In 1987, I found myself stuck in a crappy little town in Nicaragua named
Chaguitillo. The people were kind enough, though hungry, except for one surly
young man. His wife had just died of tuberculosis.

People don't die of TB if they get some antibiotics. But Ronald Reagan, big
hearted guy that he was, had put a lock-down embargo on medicine to Nicaragua
because he didn't like the government that the people there had elected.

Ronnie grinned and cracked jokes while the young woman's lungs filled up and she
stopped breathing. Reagan flashed that B-movie grin while they buried the mother
of three.

And when Hezbollah terrorists struck and murdered hundreds of American marines
in their sleep in Lebanon, the TV warrior ran away like a whipped dog ... then
turned around and invaded Grenada. That little Club Med war was a murderous PR
stunt so Ronnie could hold parades for gunning down Cubans building an airport.

I remember Nancy, a skull and crossbones prancing around in designer dresses,
some of the "gifts" that flowed to the Reagans -- from hats to million-dollar
homes -- from cronies well compensated with government loot. It used to be
called bribery.

And all the while, Grandpa grinned, the grandfather who bleated on about "family
values" but didn't bother to see his own grandchildren.

The New York Times today, in its canned obit, wrote that Reagan projected,
"faith in small town America" and "old-time values." "Values" my ass. It was
union busting and a declaration of war on the poor and anyone who couldn't buy
designer dresses. It was the New Meanness, bringing starvation back to America
so that every millionaire could get another million.

"Small town" values? From the movie star of the Pacific Palisades, the Malibu
mogul? I want to throw up.

And all the while, in the White House basement, as his brain boiled away, his
last conscious act was to condone a coup d'etat against our elected Congress.
Reagan's Defense Secretary Casper the Ghost Weinberger with the crazed Colonel,
Ollie North, plotted to give guns to the Monster of the Mideast, Ayatolla
Khomeini.

Reagan's boys called Jimmy Carter a weanie and a wuss although Carter wouldn't
give an inch to the Ayatolla. Reagan, with that film-fantasy tough-guy con in
front of cameras, went begging like a coward cockroach to Khomeini pleading on
bended knee for the release of our hostages.

Ollie North flew into Iran with a birthday cake for the maniac mullah -- no
kidding --in the shape of a key. The key to Ronnie's heart.

Then the Reagan roaches mixed their cowardice with crime: taking cash from the
hostage-takers to buy guns for the "contras" - the drug-runners of Nicaragua
posing as freedom fighters.

I remember as a student in Berkeley the words screeching out of the bullhorn,
"The Governor of the State of California, Ronald Reagan, hereby orders this
demonstration to disburse" ... and then came the teargas and the truncheons. And
all the while, that fang-hiding grin from the Gipper.

In Chaguitillo, all night long, the farmers stayed awake to guard their kids
from attack from Reagan's Contra terrorists. The farmers weren't even
Sandinistas, those 'Commies' that our cracked-brained President told us were
'only a 48-hour drive from Texas.' What the hell would they want with Texas,
anyway?

Nevertheless, the farmers, and their families, were Ronnie's targets.

In the deserted darkness of Chaguitillo, a TV blared. Weirdly, it was that
third-rate gangster movie, "Brother Rat." Starring Ronald Reagan.

Well, my friends, you can rest easier tonight: the Rat is dead.

Killer, coward, conman. Ronald Reagan, good-bye and good riddance.



Greg Palast is author of the New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money
Can Buy. www.GregPalast.com

[PatrickHenry]

What he said...
Also, too complex for intellectual posers: Dark Victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA, and the Mob
by Dan E. Moldea http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books
From a review by William Hare from Fort Lauderdale, Florida United States

At the time Ronald Reagan assumed the presidency of the Screen Actors Guild he was a Warner Brothers contact player known as "the Errol Flynn of B's," in short, a lower echelon leading man who performed in feature roles for certain Warners A products. His rise up the success ladder is interesting to observe from this key juncture, and Dan Moldea is there with the roadmap explaining much about Reagan's professional and political behavior. In Reagan's early days as SAG president the bitterly divisive House Un-American Activities Committee investigations into the motion picture industry began. Reagan appeared as a friendly witness, blaming the industry's labor strifes strictly on the American Communist Party. Moldea's compelling account fills in important blanks. For instance, the motion picture industry began with heavy influence and control generated by the Chicago Mafia. He reveals that the conflict Reagan and other corporate spokespersons laid at the doorstep of Communists was not as simple as described, and that mob influence surrounded much of what was happening. A blacklist was launched to ostensibly destroy Communist influence in the industry while that of the Mafia was not even a subject for discussion. All strikes were blamed on unpatriotic hotheads parroting the Moscow line. Later,in 1954, when Reagan's career was in worse shape than in the late forties, and when he struggled amid a shrinking bank account to make ends meet, he was in a position to assist the powerful Music Corporation of America, a powerful agency seeking to launch into film production. Reagan as SAG president led the fight to provide MCA with an exemption that others in the industry were denied. Lo and behold, the MCA agency which represented him as an actor was able to secure a lucrative contract for him as a host and actor for the new television program, General Electric Theater. Reagan's career as an actor meaningfully advanced with MCA in the driver's seat. Later MCA moved into the studio business, purchasing Universal. Reagan was once more on the scene playing a pivotal role. He became so popular in the hearts and minds of corporate interests in Hollywood and throughout California that before long he was running and winning the governorship of what was then the nation's second most populous state. Moldea's book reveals how beneficial it was for Ronald Reagan to have friends in high places whose interests he could help advance. The progress definitely worked in both directions. Those who regard the confluence of events between Reagan, MCA and other corporate interests and the sudden comeback his acting career and later political successes as purely coincidental would be rejecting common sense and the basic nature of human experience.

From a review by Douglas Doepke from Claremont, CA United States Anyone looking for the smoking gun on Ronald Reagan and organized crime will be disappointed. The future president emerges from these pages as the affably forgetful frontman for big business that the knowledgable public has long known him to be. Moldea traces the actor's well-known forgetfulness back to 1952 and investigations into sweetheart deals between Reagan's Screen Actor's Guild and Jules Stein's sinister conglomerate, MCA. What emerges from this is an apprenticeship period in which the future president hones his frontman skills and practices selective memory, while big business comes to appreciate certain show business talents. Not exactly news bulletin material. On a more newsworthy note, Moldea documents a series of protracted associations between such mob frontmen as Sidney Korshak, Hollywood tycoons like Lew Wasserman, union leaders of many stripes, and political insiders such as Reagan's William French Smith and Paul Laxalt, the Democrat's Paul Ziffren, and even the political left's Jerry Brown who seems peculiarly proud of Korshak's friendship and support. This is not a pretty picture, and while no criminal disclosures are made, there appears no doubt that such high echelon representatives of big business, the mob, and politics intersect at critical junctures far from public knowledge and scrutiny. This is not conspiracy theory, as some apologists would have it. Rather, it's a picture of high-level business conducting itself as business, and only a hopeless naif would believe that no mutual benefit from these associations is involved, as when master fixer Korshak steps in to protect hotel owners from a potntially damaging food-handlers strike. After all, Korshak's juice in these matters certainly doesn't come from a law school diploma, even an Ivy League one. The implications here go far beyond Ronald Reagan's questionable career to reach into the very bowels of the democracy and what government by the people means. For this reason alone, Moldea's book should be read.

[PatrickHenry]

What he said...
Also, too complex for intellectual posers: Dark Victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA, and the Mob
by Dan E. Moldea http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books
From a review by William Hare from Fort Lauderdale, Florida United States

At the time Ronald Reagan assumed the presidency of the Screen Actors Guild he was a Warner Brothers contact player known as "the Errol Flynn of B's," in short, a lower echelon leading man who performed in feature roles for certain Warners A products. His rise up the success ladder is interesting to observe from this key juncture, and Dan Moldea is there with the roadmap explaining much about Reagan's professional and political behavior. In Reagan's early days as SAG president the bitterly divisive House Un-American Activities Committee investigations into the motion picture industry began. Reagan appeared as a friendly witness, blaming the industry's labor strifes strictly on the American Communist Party. Moldea's compelling account fills in important blanks. For instance, the motion picture industry began with heavy influence and control generated by the Chicago Mafia. He reveals that the conflict Reagan and other corporate spokespersons laid at the doorstep of Communists was not as simple as described, and that mob influence surrounded much of what was happening. A blacklist was launched to ostensibly destroy Communist influence in the industry while that of the Mafia was not even a subject for discussion. All strikes were blamed on unpatriotic hotheads parroting the Moscow line. Later,in 1954, when Reagan's career was in worse shape than in the late forties, and when he struggled amid a shrinking bank account to make ends meet, he was in a position to assist the powerful Music Corporation of America, a powerful agency seeking to launch into film production. Reagan as SAG president led the fight to provide MCA with an exemption that others in the industry were denied. Lo and behold, the MCA agency which represented him as an actor was able to secure a lucrative contract for him as a host and actor for the new television program, General Electric Theater. Reagan's career as an actor meaningfully advanced with MCA in the driver's seat. Later MCA moved into the studio business, purchasing Universal. Reagan was once more on the scene playing a pivotal role. He became so popular in the hearts and minds of corporate interests in Hollywood and throughout California that before long he was running and winning the governorship of what was then the nation's second most populous state. Moldea's book reveals how beneficial it was for Ronald Reagan to have friends in high places whose interests he could help advance. The progress definitely worked in both directions. Those who regard the confluence of events between Reagan, MCA and other corporate interests and the sudden comeback his acting career and later political successes as purely coincidental would be rejecting common sense and the basic nature of human experience.

From a review by Douglas Doepke from Claremont, CA United States Anyone looking for the smoking gun on Ronald Reagan and organized crime will be disappointed. The future president emerges from these pages as the affably forgetful frontman for big business that the knowledgable public has long known him to be. Moldea traces the actor's well-known forgetfulness back to 1952 and investigations into sweetheart deals between Reagan's Screen Actor's Guild and Jules Stein's sinister conglomerate, MCA. What emerges from this is an apprenticeship period in which the future president hones his frontman skills and practices selective memory, while big business comes to appreciate certain show business talents. Not exactly news bulletin material. On a more newsworthy note, Moldea documents a series of protracted associations between such mob frontmen as Sidney Korshak, Hollywood tycoons like Lew Wasserman, union leaders of many stripes, and political insiders such as Reagan's William French Smith and Paul Laxalt, the Democrat's Paul Ziffren, and even the political left's Jerry Brown who seems peculiarly proud of Korshak's friendship and support. This is not a pretty picture, and while no criminal disclosures are made, there appears no doubt that such high echelon representatives of big business, the mob, and politics intersect at critical junctures far from public knowledge and scrutiny. This is not conspiracy theory, as some apologists would have it. Rather, it's a picture of high-level business conducting itself as business, and only a hopeless naif would believe that no mutual benefit from these associations is involved, as when master fixer Korshak steps in to protect hotel owners from a potntially damaging food-handlers strike. After all, Korshak's juice in these matters certainly doesn't come from a law school diploma, even an Ivy League one. The implications here go far beyond Ronald Reagan's questionable career to reach into the very bowels of the democracy and what government by the people means. For this reason alone, Moldea's book should be read.

[Osborn F Enready]

For some reason, party "members" have trouble swallowing facts if it goes against their party Rox, give them time to find an equal accomplishment that Clinton or another democrat did, and they will post that.

He rode the party coat-tails, made a public comment about being ADAMANT about "not having that skull and bonesman George Bush as his VP" before he even won the party nomination, yet we saw who ended up as his VP. He didn't restore rights to the people, he took more, with the War on Drugs campaign he helped push to the forefront through false propaganda, false "facts" being used by the Drug Awareness Campaign. He oversaw Oliver North, smuggling drugs into this country to be sold on the black market, to provide funds for the "not talked about" and "I can't recall" Iran/Contra arms deals. He helped big government grow, he did nothing to empower the people of this country other than using his acting skills to divert attention from the real issues in his address, through subtle quips, and strong speeches based on intentions, not actions.

Ron was a pawn, the most famous pawn we have had. The thing is, if the president is played as a pawn by the system, what does that make the people? Fodder....

[Sonart]

Ah yes, how to answer a thread critical of Ronald Reagan?

It's Bill Clinton's fault!

[Mr.Vicchio]

What people liked about Reagan wsas that he came into office at a time when things were looking bad for America. The economy was horrid, doom and gloom everywhere, people weren't proud to be Americans.

His policies, his humor, his cheery attitude that it was "morning again in America" and his ability to a policy and run with just inspired people.

He was blunt abou this faith guiding him, his disdain for aborition, his belief that the USSR must fall, and that America would win.

Thats why he won 49 out of 50 states in 1984. No matter what you have to say about anyone, that sort of landslide is... telling.

[dotcoma]

Ah yes, how to answer a thread critical of Ronald Reagan? It's Bill Clinton's fault!

Dude, Os isn't playing the Clinton card like the Neocons and the phony reps who blindly follow them. He's calling a spade a spade. See, some people can be critical of both "sides". It's called acting like an American and thinking for yourself.

[bishop]

agreed 100% vicchio.

seems to me that people should take a more balanced approach in viewing reagan. there seem to be lots of people out to demonize him, as there are people out there who hold him up as the messiah. the man was human, and flawed. he had good points and bad.

but like you said, the man won 49 out of 50 states. no amount of slander can erase that fact.

[dotcoma]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, What people liked about Reagan wsas that he came into office at a time when things were looking bad for America.  The economy was horrid, doom and gloom everywhere, people weren't proud to be Americans.  His policies, his humor, his cheery attitude that it was "morning again in America" and his ability to a policy and run with just inspired people. He was blunt abou this faith guiding him, his disdain for aborition, his belief that the USSR must fall, and that America would win.  Thats why he won 49 out of 50 states in 1984.  No matter what you have to say about anyone, that sort of landslide is... telling.

Telling of what? That the masses are easily manipulated?

[bishop]

that's a bit tongue in cheek imo.

people could vote for a random third party and one could also say that they were easily manipulated. tell people what they want to hear and they'll buy it.

[Milton Bradley]

Originally posted by bishop, seems to me that people should take a more balanced approach in viewing reagan.  there seem to be lots of people out to demonize him, as there are people out there who hold him up as the messiah.

Its not hard to demonizee people that control unconstitutional government. Its called treason. Their definition, not mine.


Now I ask, what it the punishment for treason? Well, assuming you are caught, and prosecuted. :rolleyes:


I am sorry to inform you that there is no way Ron could assume the chair of Commander, and Chief, and NOT know that he was commiting treason. He was a puppet for Al CIAda, and nothing more.

[5010]

Maybe the near death experience has something to do with it. Who are the 2 presidents most Americans consider to be the greatest ever? Lincoln and Kennedy.

Also you'll be hearing nice things about him for a while out of respect for the departed.

[dotcoma]

Who are the 2 presidents most Americans consider to be the greatest ever?

Washington and Jackson....