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Jun 7, 2004, 03:54 pm
| #21 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Posts: 304 | Long after many are dead, buried and forgotten in windswept snowy fields of New Hampshire the world will remember Ronald Regan. <span style='color:red'>For several reasons: the first being a lack of coordination (just look at the decline of the FSP) Liberty Landing</span> "<span style='color:blue'>The reason we can't find a relationship between the Constitution and the government is that there is none."-- Michael Badnarik</span> |
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Jun 7, 2004, 05:00 pm
| #26 (permalink) (top) | |
| 9/11: Inside Job  Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,446 | Quote:
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?s...opic=1496&st=30 "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams | |
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Jun 7, 2004, 05:41 pm
| #30 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154 | Quote:
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Jun 7, 2004, 06:25 pm
| #31 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3 | I have always been baffled, as well. He lied, but his lies were not called lies for some obscure emotional reason. For instnace, when he spoke of military service and actions which clearly were imaginary or a part of a memory of a war time film script, he was found to be amusing. (The press treats much of the present guy that way. He mangles the language and often makes no sense but when you read most coverasge of conferences or unscripted speeches, you would not suspect that. I call that irresponsibility, but perhaps it is the fear of kicking cripples that drives the protective shield raised by the press.) When he did not know an answer and made a joke out of it, as in not understanding the mechanism of a ballot proposal when he was governor of California, he was not criticized for his shallowness but praised of his affability and stage presence. There are standards and there are standards. And of course there is Barnum's view of the mass intelligence at play, as well. The single good that came out of Reagan's time was policy re armamaments which "apparently" hastened the demise of what was in the process of dying, the Soviet Union. That may well have been simply the force of history played out in his moments in the sun. We will never know that. His voodoo economics as described by Bush, Sr., was just that, but again the force of history was at play...and the bill that would have been a tough one to repay got paid down by a democrat who drove the economy very well with brilliant players on his team. He was a front man for some very rich California guys who wanted to control the national ATM for a while. The did it. He was an excellent actor in this role. Death does not change that. (seeReagan's Inner Circle of Self-Made Men:'Everyone a Self-Made Man' Shift on New Deal Programs 'Electrifying' Fund-Raiser 'Kitchen Cabinet' Formed Other Close Associates NY TIMES index) If Reagan can be considered a great president I think Clinton can be considered a great and faithful husband. |
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Jun 7, 2004, 07:11 pm
| #32 (permalink) (top) |
| Guest Posts: n/a | Politics was very different back in the 1970s and 80s. There was much less vehemence between left and right. There is a very good documentary floating about, I've seen it on the history channel and A&E. I highly suggest any curios people watch it. I gather that most of you on this board are too young to remember what Reagan was like, what was going on in the country before and during his terms. I you really want to understand his impact, stop focusing on the negative and statistics. Also, stop thinking according to current standards of political discourse. We all knew about Iran/Contra and some of the other errors commited in his watch. There was a huge difference between Reagan and other Presidents caught in a scandall. Reagan apologized and accepted responsibility for wrongdoing. I still believe he knew little about Iran/Contra but he didn't pass the buck. Americans forgave him after his apology. He was a man of honour and HE ENDED THE COLD WAR. Your welcome. |
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Jun 7, 2004, 08:10 pm
| #33 (permalink) (top) | |
| Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229 | Quote:
How about you tell us why, as well. For us "sheep" Why do I have to repeat this every time someone brings up, "America supported (insert a current enemy)" Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly! | |
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Jun 8, 2004, 04:23 am
| #34 (permalink) (top) | |
| Dedicated Anarchist  Posts: 172 | Quote:
Does it matter why? Did the war against the Soviet Union and other such American enemies justify cozying up to murderous fucks who are just as bad? Might we have enlisted Saddam's help in taking out Osama then? (We did cozy up to Uzbekistani dictator Islam Karimov -- who has had people boiled to death -- and Pakistan -- which actually has links to Al-Queda not based on heresay evidence and conjecture -- for the same purpose.) Or should we have made a deal with Osama to take out Saddam? Oooo, would it have been justified to team up with Saddam Hussein to fight... Saddam Hussein!?! (After all, we did team up with Saddam Hussein to fight the Ayatollah Khomeini. Oh, and then we sold arms to the ayatollah.) "None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." -- Johann Von Goethe | |
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Jun 8, 2004, 07:01 am
| #35 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1 | Reagan was the perfect example of the power of Madison Avenue. Conservatives like him because he did what Barry Goldwater could not do,and that is legitimize the Conservative movement, he made it ok to openly hate the poor and villianize the Social Programs that help support our poor and elderly. He lent his Charm and oratory skill to the most evil SOB's to ever hold power in Washington, and his legacy continues into the current group in power today. Many overlook the fact that the Contra thing was only one part of the evil he was doing, the death squads in Central America were his doing as well, he even wanted to bring the Argentina Military death squads to Central America, but that ended with the Falkland island War. Conservatives still ador him as a saint, but I dislike him for the truth of what he was, a balantant failure. All you have to do is read the balance sheet of the National debt, only a moron could consider him a Conservative, Con Artist is more like it. |
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Jun 8, 2004, 07:08 am
| #37 (permalink) (top) |
| Navy Veteran  Location: Texas Posts: 6,335 | Yes Gorgo, you being an expert on Reagan. Can you tell us his accomplishments? Better can you tell us the interest rates in 1981 then in 1989. unemployment rates in 1981 and then 1989. Status of the USSR in 1981 and 1989. GDP in 1981 and then in 1989. Price of a gallon fo Gas (adjusted for inflation) 1981 vs 1989. What? you won't do that? Why, because it proves nothing or it proves you KNOW nothing? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route? |
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Jun 8, 2004, 08:51 am
| #39 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Posts: 257 | Let me give this a shot. I answered the same question on another forum and will repeat it here. Reagan was not a neo-con. He was certainly not a nation builder. There is no comparison between Reagan's love for America and President Bush's love for himself. Bush has one desire and that is to be the leader of the world. In his passion for a global government under his own leadership, he has carefully removed the reputation of America to the point where we are not only despised but disrespected by everyone else. This is not a trait that anyone can put on Reagan's shoulders. Reagan loved all things American including the reputation of the country. Reagan absolutely loved all Americans. He would stop and talk to anyone from any level of society and would talk about the magnificence of all things American. Bush is a self-serving ignorant menace to the country and to the American people. Reagan learned his politics through rational evaluation of what he saw was harming all Americans. Back in the late 40s he was so liberal that he thought only in terms of big government and what it would take from the citizens of America. He married a wonderful actress Jane Wyman, who divorced him after a few years because he was too damn liberal in his politics. He got involved in big government unions and soon began to see the fallacy of too much government. Reagan changed his outlook on individualism and turned his back on Socialism forever. This drive to help people help themselves was the start of his political career. Back in the very early 60s we saw this flame of liberty shine through this young man and saw the development of his character grow along with many of the movies that he made. He beqan to speak for the man on the street and encourage all of us to shoot for the top of whatever we desired. His respect of women is what attracted many of us to him. He felt that women were held back in many ways; in the political world, in the business community and certainly in the home. He also saw the flaws in the Social Security system that literally took money from our weekly paychecks and put it in the federal budget to be squandered on things that none of us understood or wanted. The big promise of our retirement was a fraud and he knew it. If I live to be 100 I will never forget his famous Social Security speech that woke my generation up to do what we could to destroy this terrible theft that would last no more than 30 years unless that money was set aside out of the hands of the Congress. (It never was) Those of us who lived in California had seen our property taxes triple every 5 years and many of our retired fix-income seniors having to sell their homes and move to a trailor park out in the desert somewhere. Hell yes, we put him in the Governor's seat! Hell yes, we women bused up to Sacramento when he signed the legalization of abortions and gave him a round of cheers as being the first governor to do this! Our State taxes were held to a payable percentage, our homes were still carrying a terrible property tax but we saw the freedom to petition a referendum to get the Jarvis Amendment on the ballot and in a few short years had our property taxes held to the way they were in the early 70s. This could not have been done with Reagan's foot work even though it didn't get passed until he was out of the Governor's seat. I did a lot of fund raisers with Ron and Nancy Reagan for many local and federal elections and just working with them gave us all a moral boost that we were doing the right thing. Every thing Reagan did as Governor and President was done for the betterment of America. He never stood up and bragged about a damn thing he ever did as our idiot President does nearly daily. In Reagan's last year of office many felt that he was used by the party to cover many mistakes that were made in his Administration but he never did anything but admit that if these mistakes were made, it was his fault. Many of his close friends in D.C. feel that he absolutely did not know about the Iran/Contra deal but he took the heat anyway. I've been involved in politics for 50 years and have never seen a man with as much character as Ronald Reagan. When he is compared to G.W. Bush, I want to stand up and scream. Bush is a disgrace to the Republican Party and has been a magnet to the neo cons who want nothing less than world dominance. I stormed out of the GOP in 1992 when Bush's father started this whole New World Order crap and I will never return until the party returns to the dignity and honesty of Ronald W. Reagan. I fear it never will! -------------------- "If it weren't for double-standards, politicians would have hardly any standards at all" |
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Jun 8, 2004, 09:15 am
| #40 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash  Location: NY Posts: 30 | Viking, as a fellow newbie, I wanted to recognize your post, and to say I agree about the demonization of the poor and social programs...that was the unfortunate legacy of the 80's...and the lies, of course... the lie about 'no $ for hostages' most blatantly. Taking the resolve of Jimmy Carter (in the Iran hostage crisis) and turning it into pure hipocrisy. [I was in the hospital giving birth to my son in those days...so I was stuck with a TV in front of me...it was horrible.] So, keep telling the truth. Read Greg Palast's piece on Reagan. ...MORE PROOF ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG. Amolibri |
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