Stop Shooting the President

[chaplainson]

All I see in the news, on this site, in the papers, and in everybody's speeches is what a crappy job our President is doing. And how everything going on is the Presidents fault, and how one of the forums even talks about impeaching the President, on what charge, I have no clue. But for goodness sake, the man is not God; he can't just force the world to be perfect. Everyone says his main fault is the war, so I'm going to focus a little on that:

President Bush had been in office for just 9 months when the Towers were bombed, and it was by far the worst terrorist bombing on any Western country up to that point. The chiefs of staff wanted actions taken, Congress wanted action (shown by the overwhelming vote to approve Bush's actions in Iraq), and we as a people of the United States wanted action. His intelligence agencies said Iraq had possible nuclear facilities, and that was a threat. He didn't make this up, someone in intelligence told him this.

Also, people who expected the war to just end after Sudam was ousted, you're out of your mind. This is not some Hitler type guy, who, when the head is cut off, the snake dies because the country realizes it was at fault. Bush isn't fighting Sadam, he's fighting against the terrorists who will not change their opinions, and Bush is going to stay the course, and try to avoid turning Iraq into the next Vietnam.
President Bush has been dealt a very tough hand as a President, but in 2004, America chose him as the President of the United States to lead our country for four more years. That's right, whether you voted for him, the other guy, or not at all, he is America's choice, and the least you could do is say I respect our President for what he does, and not the President is a load of crap and I'm going to be a total loser about it and just bash him to make me feel better. I doubt anyone wanted to be President during Sep 11 and Katrina, but he was President, and he did his job as best he could, and even though his approval rating is rock bottom, he still tries hard for this country, and the least you people can do is respect him for that.

I'd love to hear about your opinions on Bush's leadership, and his actions over the past few years.

[Scribbler1]

His leadership stinks, period. But it's equally important to understand he couldn't get away with half of what he does without the consent of Congress. Bush is not alone.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: chaplainson .... and he did his job as best he could, and even though his approval rating is rock bottom, he still tries hard for this country......

To put it simply, I don't agree. His policies on the war, immigration, the economy, the environment, and especially fiscal responsibility have been abysmal. He will, IMHO, be remembered as the worst president this country has ever had to endure.

[Jack]

For a year now his approval rating has hovered around 30%. I acknowledge polls don't tell the whole story, but they are indicitive of the attitude I'm seeing expressed nearly everywhere, as you noted, chaplainson. So if we're both seeing negative comments regarding his presidency in the media, on the internet and in conversation...doesn't that tell us something? Perhaps the man truly is a poor president?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Isherwood For a year now his approval rating has hovered around 30%. I acknowledge polls don't tell the whole story, but they are indicitive of the attitude I'm seeing expressed nearly everywhere, as you noted, chaplainson. So if we're both seeing negative comments regarding his presidency in the media, on the internet and in conversation...doesn't that tell us something? Perhaps the man truly is a poor president?

I wish I had your tact.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Worst.
President.
Ever.

Better suited for a factory job. No, wait..... he may not have the ethics for that. He is an evil little man.


He is a wartime deserter from his post.
That used to deserve a REAL shooting.

Instead he steals a couple of elections so he can use that power to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent, unarmed people... while hiding safely behind a desk. He cannot wash his hands. He has poisoned children with nuclear waste (Depleted Uranium)...


(to be continued)

[PatrickHenry]

Heh. I can't believe that there are still Bush supporters. He's such a schmuck...

[Century 25]

Bush.. he is the antithesis of what defines a president. He exists merely to pander for the syndicate yanking his strings.

The last "president" presiding over the USA was Kennedy.. and he was murdered for his efforts.

As PH said.. he is a schmuck..

[chaplainson]

I'd love to see any real facts from that entire last paragraph by gr8fuldaniel. Who are these hundreds of thousands anyway? You can't possibly consider the iraqi citizens, that part of the world had terror problems long before we were there, and don't compare the President to Hitler or Stalin.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: chaplainson don't compare the President to Hitler or Stalin.

I compare him to Satan.

[chaplainson]

Quote by: Zeebadee His policies on... the economy...and especially fiscal responsibility have been abysmal.

What's wrong with his fiscal respnsibilities, our economy is on the rise. Just five years ago, the DOW was below 8000, just look at any chart, and is now over 13000, unemployment is down in the US, despite no efforts by Bush to stop outsourcing.

[Milton Bradley]

NEWS FLASH


The President shot himself, repeatedly.


Why can't others take this ball, and run with it?


I suppose we can still hope that some day Cheney will take G.W. on a hunting expedition.

[Autolykos]

Welcome to Volconvo, ChaplainSon.

Quote by: chaplainson All I see in the news, on this site, in the papers, and in everybody's speeches is what a crappy job our President is doing. And how everything going on is the Presidents fault, and how one of the forums even talks about impeaching the President, on what charge, I have no clue. But for goodness sake, the man is not God; he can't just force the world to be perfect. Everyone says his main fault is the war, so I'm going to focus a little on that:

I'm amazed that you have no clue as to the potential grounds for impeaching Mr. Bush. With one word I can sum it up: fraud. Mr. Bush and his administration have committed fraud against the people of the United States. Their casus belli against Iraq was based on false information that they knowingly used.

With that said, you are accurate when you say that Mr. Bush is not God. Not everything is his fault, either. There have been others complicit in the government's misdeeds, including most of Congress. Of course, a majority in Congress is not going to impeach itself.

What I'm wondering is just what you think a "perfect world" would be like. Could you explain that in more detail, please?

President Bush had been in office for just 9 months when the Towers were bombed, and it was by far the worst terrorist bombing on any Western country up to that point. The chiefs of staff wanted actions taken, Congress wanted action (shown by the overwhelming vote to approve Bush's actions in Iraq), and we as a people of the United States wanted action. His intelligence agencies said Iraq had possible nuclear facilities, and that was a threat. He didn't make this up, someone in intelligence told him this.

First off, did anyone know just what kind of action they wanted in the immediate aftermath of 9/11? I doubt it. People (including myself, sadly enough) wanted one thing: revenge. Bloodlust was the order of the day, back then. It was only after we sobered up that we realized how foolish we had been -- well, some of us, at any rate.

With that said, you make quite a leap of logic above. You talk about 9/11 and how everyone demanded "action", then switch tracks and talk about how Iraq had "possible nuclear facilities" and was "a threat". Do you believe that Iraq was somehow culpable in 9/11? If not, then taking action against Iraq in response to 9/11 would stand as a non-sequitur, would it not?

Also, people who expected the war to just end after Sudam was ousted, you're out of your mind. This is not some Hitler type guy, who, when the head is cut off, the snake dies because the country realizes it was at fault. Bush isn't fighting Sadam, he's fighting against the terrorists who will not change their opinions, and Bush is going to stay the course, and try to avoid turning Iraq into the next Vietnam.

Either the war against Iraq was to remove Saddam from power, or it was to fight terrorism. It cannot be both. Indeed, the only terrorism in Iraq prior to the war was terrorism by the hands of its government. Only after the US-led invasion did non-state terrorism arise there.

Saying that "Bush is going to stay the course" doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. I don't know what kind of argument you're trying to make with it.

President Bush has been dealt a very tough hand as a President, but in 2004, America chose him as the President of the United States to lead our country for four more years. That's right, whether you voted for him, the other guy, or not at all, he is America's choice, and the least you could do is say I respect our President for what he does, and not the President is a load of crap and I'm going to be a total loser about it and just bash him to make me feel better. I doubt anyone wanted to be President during Sep 11 and Katrina, but he was President, and he did his job as best he could, and even though his approval rating is rock bottom, he still tries hard for this country, and the least you people can do is respect him for that.

"He is America's choice"? When 50% of the eligible voters in this country vote at all*, and a little over 50% of those voted for Bush, how can you really say that he is "America's choice"? It would seem that he is the choice of only about 25% of America, at best. Perhaps I should not mention that you're also committing an appeal to the majority above -- a kind of logical fallacy.

At any rate, I cannot respect Mr. Bush for what he does. In my opinion, the sooner he is out of office, the better.

I'd love to hear about your opinions on Bush's leadership, and his actions over the past few years.

I think the man has made consistently wrong decisions concerning US foreign policy. He and his administration have brought the reputation of the United States to new lows, and perhaps irrevocably. Domestically, he fares little better.

- Rob

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: chaplainson I'd love to see any real facts from that entire last paragraph by gr8fuldaniel.

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Worst. President. Ever.

It's all self explanatory. This man cannot be trusted with the English language, let alone the overreaching powers he has assumed.

Quote by: me Better suited for a factory job. No, wait..... he may not have the ethics for that. He is an evil little man.

I should not claim this asshat is qualified for any job.
Have you seen his resume? (Its a bit dated, but facts dont change)

George W. Bush Resume Past work experience: Ran for congress and lost. Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie. Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox. With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas. Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history. Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court. Accomplishments as president: Attacked and took over two countries. Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history. Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period. Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market. First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record. First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history. After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history. Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history. In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job. Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history. Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period. Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history. Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television. Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history. Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed. Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have. Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans. Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (2003-03-15 War Protests Around the World) Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history. My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history. Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her). Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States. Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world. Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States. Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history. First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission. First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board. Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history. Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. Withdrew from the World Court of Law. Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions. First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections). All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations. My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation). Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history. First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community. First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1) First US president to establish a secret shadow government. Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history). With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years. Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability. First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea. Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts. Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'. Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects. In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States. Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war. Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down. Records and References: At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available). AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war. Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use. All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view. All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view. All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view. Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review. For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

(to be continued, used all my allotted space)

[gr8fuldaniel]

(cont'd)

Quote by: me He is a wartime deserter from his post. That used to deserve a REAL shooting.

This letter to the Dept of Offense tells the story:

BuzzFlash Reader Commentary -- George Bush, The Deserter RE: Desertion Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. 20301-1900 To whom it may concern: Recently, I was made aware of allegations concerning several violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) by George W. Bush during the Vietnam War. The alleged acts include being Absent Without Leave (UCMJ Article 86) for a period of more than a year from his National Guard assignments in Texas and Alabama. According to the UCMJ, a person who is AWOL for more than 30 days with evidence of no intent to return to duty is guilty of Desertion. (UCMJ Article 85) To understand the gravity of this offense, one need only read the section 4.9.5 e. of Article 85, which states that the maximum punishment for desertion in a time of war (3), is, "Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct". As far as I am aware, George W. Bush has never received any punishment for these alleged crimes, nor has he ever been charged. When I read about these allegations in national media outlets including, but not limited to; The Boston Globe(1), The Washington Post(2), The Birmingham News(3), and The Dallas Morning News(4), I decided to call the Department of Defense to find out what the Statute of Limitations was for these crimes. I was informed that because of the nature of the crimes; deserting one's country during a time of war, that there is NO statute of limitations, and these crimes, if proven, can still be prosecuted today. The purpose of this correspondence is to make a formal written complaint with circumstantial and documentary evidence of George W. Bush's violations of the UCMJ. Since he is the Commander in Chief of our armed forces, the details of his past service or lack thereof, are of particular interest to the American people. DETAILS: From May to November 1972, George W. Bush was living in Alabama working on the US senate campaign of Winton Blount and was required to attend drills with the Air National Guard unit in more...

Quote by: chaplain Who are these hundreds of thousands anyway?

Updated Iraq Survey Affirms Earlier Mortality Estimates As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad

.

About a year ago the number was reported at 650,000 civilians dead...or should I say liberated? But whos counting? After all they are just brown people and probably just Muslims, right? Are those 650,000 (750,000 by now?) worth less than the 3000 dead on 911? Terrorism is terrorism. Those 3/4 million Iraqi souls would be alive today...if not for your warmonger/profiteer in chief. Operation Iraqi Liberation my ass. It spells O.I.L..Bush said today he wants to stay in Iraq for 50 years. What happened to "When they stand up we will stand down"?

Quote by: chap You can't possibly consider the iraqi citizens, that part of the world had terror problems long before we were there,

Actually there was ZERO suicide bombers in Iraq before the profiteers showed up....ZERO alQaida.... Iraq had problems, just not "terror problems" as you mistakenly assert.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: chaplainson What's wrong with his fiscal respnsibilities, our economy is on the rise. Just five years ago, the DOW was below 8000, just look at any chart, and is now over 13000, unemployment is down in the US, despite no efforts by Bush to stop outsourcing.

Well, for starters, sure we have lots of new jobs, but most of them are poor substitutes for the jobs that have been outsourced.

" A new analysis has found that some 44 million American jobs – about one out of every three positions in the United States – pays $11.11 per hour or less.
The economists plotted low-wage work over time since 1979, and found that in the late 1990s low-wage jobs began paying more until 2001, when their wages were up by 5 percent over 1979’s figures. But, according to the report, since then, low-wages have fallen back to almost the 1979 levels.." A Third of U.S. Jobs Pay ‘Low Wages’ - The NewStandard

On May 30, 2002, the dollar/Euro exchange rate was 1 to 1.07 On May 30, 2007, the exchange rate was 1 to 0.74, a decline of more than 30%.
FXHistory - Historical Currency Exchange Rates

Everything we buy from overseas, including oil, is now much more expensive.

On May 30, 2002, the national debt was $6.019 trillion. On May 30, 2007, the national debt is $8.819 trillion, an increase of over 46%. Of course the economy should look pretty good if you pump in almost $3 trillion dollars of borrowed money.
This system is unavailable.

If you include unfunded liabilities, the national debt is $59 trillion, over $500,000 for every American household. ]
News: Travel, Weather, Entertainment, Sports, Technology, U.S. & World - USATODAY.com


While not all of this is bush's doing, I think it's clear that his policies have certainly contributed to the figures. I think he's had record budget deficits every year he's been in office, but I'm too tired to go and check that. In any case, this ought to give you some idea of bush economic policies.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: chaplainson All I see in the news, on this site, in the papers, and in everybody's speeches is what a crappy job our President is doing. And how everything going on is the Presidents fault, and how one of the forums even talks about impeaching the President, on what charge, I have no clue. But for goodness sake, the man is not God; he can't just force the world to be perfect. Everyone says his main fault is the war, so I'm going to focus a little on that: President Bush had been in office for just 9 months when the Towers were bombed, and it was by far the worst terrorist bombing on any Western country up to that point. The chiefs of staff wanted actions taken, Congress wanted action (shown by the overwhelming vote to approve Bush's actions in Iraq), and we as a people of the United States wanted action. His intelligence agencies said Iraq had possible nuclear facilities, and that was a threat. He didn't make this up, someone in intelligence told him this. Also, people who expected the war to just end after Sudam was ousted, you're out of your mind. This is not some Hitler type guy, who, when the head is cut off, the snake dies because the country realizes it was at fault. Bush isn't fighting Sadam, he's fighting against the terrorists who will not change their opinions, and Bush is going to stay the course, and try to avoid turning Iraq into the next Vietnam. President Bush has been dealt a very tough hand as a President, but in 2004, America chose him as the President of the United States to lead our country for four more years. That's right, whether you voted for him, the other guy, or not at all, he is America's choice, and the least you could do is say I respect our President for what he does, and not the President is a load of crap and I'm going to be a total loser about it and just bash him to make me feel better. I doubt anyone wanted to be President during Sep 11 and Katrina, but he was President, and he did his job as best he could, and even though his approval rating is rock bottom, he still tries hard for this country, and the least you people can do is respect him for that. I'd love to hear about your opinions on Bush's leadership, and his actions over the past few years.

Come on. Stop apologizing. He attacked the wrong country, he left new Orleans to die. He appointed incompetant lackies with no skills to important government positions. he squandered a tax surplus, then cut taxes for the top 5 % and then started a war (after going AWOL when it was HIS turn). Then when the country tells him they have had enough of his war by voting for the other party, he ramps up the troop levels even though the troops there are overworked and spread too thin to do anything but be cannopn fodder.

In short, he's the worst president the country has ever seen, and all this after not even winning either of his elections.

But yeah, we are "too hard" on him.

BTW, how did you feel about Clinton?

Oh yeah, Iraq was the "next Vietnam" the second the first troops arrived. A war to make rich men richer, nothing more. We have created more terrorists since it started than e will ever defeat. Terrorism cannot be defeated by military force. It's a TACTIC.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: chaplainson I'd love to see any real facts from that entire last paragraph by gr8fuldaniel. Who are these hundreds of thousands anyway? You can't possibly consider the iraqi citizens, that part of the world had terror problems long before we were there, and don't compare the President to Hitler or Stalin.

I don't compare him to those men. THEY had SOME leadership skills, and both actually served in the military if memory serves.