Apology before the attack

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike So what you point?

My point? Your nation continues its illegal oocupation.

[rez]

Quote by: shrike You don’t mean the Muslim occupiers of course? .It was like I said part of the land was bought by Jewish Fond other part was state land from mandate and there was privately owned land by Arabs and Jews.

can you further explain? I don't see the point in debating this issue if we are not talking about the history of the issue.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: shrike You don’t mean the Muslim occupiers of course? .It was like I said part of the land was bought by Jewish Fond other part was state land from mandate and there was privately owned land by Arabs and Jews.

Ah yes, the mandate. So, if I give your house to your neighbor, it now belongs to him? The land was given to Israel without the consent of those who were living on it. Of course they are going to fight to get it back. And even if it was bought, does that give the buyer the right to form his own nation with it? If you buy a house, can you then become an independent nation?

Let's be real here. Israel was founded for political purposes in an area where there was expected to be little means to resist. Any European country could have volunteered to give up the necessary land for a Jewish homeland, none did. Those that were expected to be able to mount the least effective opposition were chosen by others to give up their land instead.

[shrike]

Quote by: rez can you further explain? I don't see the point in debating this issue if we are not talking about the history of the issue.

On what issue specifically. Do you need an explanation?

[shrike]

Quote by: ph My point? Your nation continues its illegal oocupation

Nice you that cut out my post and didn't present any counter-arguements

[shrike]

Quote by: Zeebadee Ah yes, the mandate. So, if I give your house to your neighbor, it now belongs to him? ?.

So if someone stole the house from the owner and than come another burglar and occupied this house has children even grandchildren. So when rightful owner want it house back and buy part of it with real money. You still thing that house should belong to this unlawful occupier?

The land was given to Israel without the consent of those who were living on it. Of course they are going to fight to get it back. ?.

How can claim about consent. There was majority of Jews in a Jewish state. So there full consent of majority of people in the designated state.

And even if it was bought, does that give the buyer the right to form his own nation with it? If you buy a house, can you then become an independent nation

If there is UN approval than Yes.

Let's be real here. Israel was founded for political purposes in an area where there was expected to be little means to resist. Any European country could have volunteered to give up the necessary land for a Jewish homeland, none did. Those that were expected to be able to mount the least effective opposition were chosen by others to give up their land instead

Israel was chosen specifically because its a homeland of Jewish nation. Jews don't have claim to any other land.

[rez]

Quote by: shrike So if someone stole the house from the owner and than come another burglar and occupied this house has children even grandchildren. So when rightful owner want it house back and buy part of it with real money. You still thing that house should belong to this unlawful occupier?

So you are saying Jews owned the land in the very beginning and then Arabs stole it from them, and then Jews bought it back?

[shrike]

So you are saying Jews owned the land in the very beginning and then Arabs stole it from them, and then Jews bought it back?

No. The land changed the owner many times since large portion of Jews was ethnically cleansed by Romans but there was always Jews in the land of Israel. I think Wiki has pretty unbiased account
History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

shrike I always considered them (Jews) nomads who just farmed where they could until the settlements the Romans created.

[rez]

the best part about the whole conflict is that these people actually believe it is their land because their specific magician claimed he was sent by a magical spirit called "god." I don't know whose side to take on this...

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: shrike So if someone stole the house from the owner and than come another burglar and occupied this house has children even grandchildren. So when rightful owner want it house back and buy part of it with real money. You still thing that house should belong to this unlawful occupier?

From Wiki, your own source:

"Large numbers of the Arab population fled or were expelled from the newly-created Jewish State during the Palestinian exodus, which is referred to by many Palestinian groups and individuals as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة ), meaning "disaster" or "cataclysm". Estimates of the final Palestinian refugee count range from 400,000 to 900,000 with the official United Nations count at 711,000.[25] The unresolved conflict between Israel and the Arab world that persists to this day has resulted in a lasting displacement of Palestinian refugees." Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, tell us more about how Israel "bought" the land.

[shrike]

Quote by: zee From Wiki, your own source: "Large numbers of the Arab population fled or were expelled from the newly-created Jewish State during the Palestinian exodus, which is referred to by many Palestinian groups and individuals as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة ), meaning "disaster" or "cataclysm". Estimates of the final Palestinian refugee count range from 400,000 to 900,000 with the official United Nations count at 711,000.[25] The unresolved conflict between Israel and the Arab world that persists to this day has resulted in a lasting displacement of Palestinian refugees." Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, tell us more about how Israel "bought" the land.

If Arabs wouldn’t start a war and wouldn’t brutally attack the newly created state there would be now 23 Arab states with no refuge problem. btw in the same time Jewish were expelled from Arab countries.

Quote by: rez the best part about the whole conflict is that these people actually believe it is their land because their specific magician claimed he was sent by a magical spirit called "god." I don't know whose side to take on this...

Zionism is a mostly secular movement it was created by secular Jews. Many other national-liberation movement were created back than

[shrike]

shrike I always considered them (Jews) nomads who just farmed where they could until the settlements the Romans created

.
Jews were certainly not nomads. There is plenty of archeological evidence that point otherwise.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: shrike If Arabs wouldn’t start a war and wouldn’t brutally attack the newly created state....

The "newly created state" was created on their land without their approval.

[shrike]

The "newly created state" was created on their land without their approval.

So what there was majority of Jews in Jewish state that wanted the creation.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: shrike If there is UN approval than Yes.

Yeah, you're a big supporter of the UN when it does what you like. Now tell us how many UN Resolutions Israel is in violation of.

[shrike]

Yeah, you're a big supporter of the UN when it does what you like. Now tell us how many UN Resolutions Israel is in violation of

Why should Israel follow any UN resution if Arabs not following it too?

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Maybe ending the occupation of Palestinian lands would speak louder than words...

PH, I know you ignore facts, so it is hard to explain things to you, but it has been offered to the Palestinians numerous times. Yet they make it as a prerequisite that that the for the Jews to jump into the sea and kill themselves. I know that might make you happy, but I doubt that will work for the Israelis.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Zeebadee Having your land stolen is hardly "hocas pocas".

Exactly, when the Persians, then Arabs and Turks stole the Israelis lands it was hardly hocas pocas. Yet this is forgotten, or not researched, by most of the people who argue here.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: GHook93 PH, I know you ignore facts, so it is hard to explain things to you, ....

LOL, that'll be the day, when PH needs you to explain anything to him.

Quote by: GHook93 ....but it has been offered to the Palestinians numerous times. Yet they make it as a prerequisite that that the for the Jews to jump into the sea and kill themselves. I know that might make you happy, but I doubt that will work for the Israelis.

Sure, what could be more fair than to have some of your stolen land offered back to you if you'll accept the loss of the rest?

Why don't you explain why you seem to think that it's fine for Israel to fight to keep the stolen land, and yet it's unreasonable for the Palestinians to fight to get it back??