End of Major Combat Operations Plus 4 years

[RickSp]

Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. George Bush 5/1/2003

When four years ago today Bush gave his speech dressed in his flight suit Halloween costume, a total of 139 American soldiers had died in Iraq. Now four years later, with absolutely no end in sight, over 3,200 more American soldiers have died. The overwhelming majority of Iraqi want us out of their country and a majority approve of attacks on American troops. In a guerrilla war that is a very succinct definition of losing. More Americans die daily. In April alone, 104 American soldiers died.

How much longer will we continue this insanity?

[PatrickHenry]

Hmm. When you get yourself an insane president, the insane war comes along as an added bonus...

[jose]

YouTube - Mission Accomplished - 4 Years Later
a 3 min video on this theme

[CoffeeSaint]

The war will continue until people stop seeing war as a tool to accomplish moral and political ends.

Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annihilate rather than to convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue. Violence ends by defeating itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. A voice echoes through time saying to every potential Peter, "Put up your sword." History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations that failed to follow this command.

-from "Stride Toward Freedom," Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[RickSp]

There is a perverse irony that on the 4th anniversary of Bush proclaiming the end of "major combat operations in Iraq", he vetoes a bill providing for the phased withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

For our mad king, there is only endless war.

[Slevin57]

Gee I wonder if any group of (Democrat) congressmen planned that one!

Also, that marked the end of all major military operations. I don't think the president thought that it would continue this long....The military did.

But since when do we listen to the military!?

This war will continue for a long time. Just as our other reconstruction efforts have. I don't really know who to beleive as far as are the Iraqi's satisfied or not.

The Media is on a kick to say they aren't. Our Generals say different things.

The soldiers I know, and I live in the largest military area in the world, bring back a more positive message.

At the same time, some soldiers are bringing back a negative message. I think this probably has something to do with where they stand on the war, the reality of the situation isn't all the relevant.

Central Iraq (Baghdad) is unstable. Northern and Southern Iraq are quite stable.

This is why president Bush deployed more troops to that area, and Secretary Gates issued marching orders for 11,000 more national guardsmen. The Media was reporting failure before half of the troops were even in place. I don't think I'm going to go with the media on this one.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Slevin57 Gee I wonder if any group of (Democrat) congressmen planned that one! Also, that marked the end of all major military operations. I don't think the president thought that it would continue this long....The military did. But since when do we listen to the military!? This war will continue for a long time. Just as our other reconstruction efforts have. I don't really know who to beleive as far as are the Iraqi's satisfied or not.

The war will continue until the American people demand that it be stopped. It is a waste of blood and treasure that has made us all less safe.

Our mad king can't be allowed to continue to damage our nation indefinitely.

[Boetie]

How short the publics memory is. Here are some favorite mission accomplished comments from none other than the architects of this war:

Lie By Lie: Search Results

Entries from Lie By Lie tagged with 'Mission Accomplished' July 11, 2002 "Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance, the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will." ­Richard Perle in a PBS interview... Tags: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, Neocons, Oil

As of today none of the reconstruction has taken place

November 14, 2002 "Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that. It won't be a World War III." — Donald Rumsfeld, predicting the length of the war in Iraq, on a call-in... Tags: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, Rumsfeld

Like the energizer bunny the troops gets tossed into the meatgrinder and it just keeps going and going.

February 23, 2003 Richard Perle, in a short article for the American Enterprise Institute, writes, The "terrified and brutalized people of Iraq will rejoice at the downfall of Saddam Hussein." He adds, "U.N. weapons inspectors are being seriously deceived. It reminds me of... Tags: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, Neocons, UN, Weapons Inspections

So decieved are these weapons inspectors that we haven't found any weapons to this day.

March 16, 2003 Cheney appears on Meet the Press. He says, "My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." On the fact that the IAEA's ElBaradei doubts Saddam Hussein has a nuclear program: "I think Mr. ElBaradei frankly is wrong.... Tags: Cheney, FALSE INTEL, FEAR FACTOR, IAEA, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, WMD

Wilson really got under your nerve about that Niger document didn't he Cheney

April 11, 2003 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says of the widespread looting and rioting, "Think what's happened in our cities when we've had riots, and problems, and looting. Stuff happens! ... Freedom's untidy." A later Coalition Provisional Authority estimate puts at $12 billion... Tags: DOD, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, QUAGMIRE, Reconstruction Authorities, Rumsfeld

Think what happens when you leave billions of shrink wrapped dollars in the middle of a war zone. That was one your generals brilliant ideas.

Mid April, 2003 Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita tells ORHA officials, "We're going to stand up an interim government, hand power over to them, and get out of there in three to four months."... Tags: DOD, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, QUAGMIRE

Iraq has been asking you to get out since day one

May 1, 2003 Wearing a flight suit, Bush lands on U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln and declares an end to "major combat operations." A large banner behind him reads "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."The administration later tries to pin the blame for the premature celebratory banner on the... Tags: Bush, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Bush you went from mission accomplished to you don't know where you're going.

May 1, 2003 Prominent neoconservative Richard Perle writes an op-ed for USA Today. It is titled, "Relax, celebrate victory."... Tags: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, Neocons

Perle why don't you sent that article to Bush and Cheney they might get a laugh out of it.

June 6, 2003 "In those regions where pockets of dead-enders are trying to reconstitute, Gen. Franks and his team are rooting them out. In short, the coalition is making good progress." -- Donald Rumsfeld... Tags: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, Rumsfeld

You said that in 2003 this is 2007 and those dead-enders are still around.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Boetie those dead-enders are still around.

Sadly, the real dead-enders are the Bush administration. Americans and Iraqis pay the price.

[bishop]

effectively, there is no more support for the war. i don't care what any bushbot may say, there is no more support for the war.

the issue now, imo, seems to be more geared towards the people who are undecided about the pros/cons of leaving. lots of people seem to think that we have some sort of obligation to stay there so that the country doesn't simply fall apart - and all the bloody mess that will likely involve.

those people are the final hold-outs and the prime reason why it seems that we will be in iraq for the foreseeable future (assuming that the dems cave in to bush's demands). the interesting this is that these same people didn't care about leaving somalia to the warlords, the balkans, haiti, nor our largely ignored and neglected presence in afghanistan where the taliban has been making a resurgence. somehow, though, the hold-outs feel that we have a moral obligation to be the glue that binds iraq, and only iraq.

iraqis are going to slaughter iraqis regardless of our occupation or not. and, our occupation does absolutely nothing to diminish the sectarian feuds at play in iraq. grand nation-building schemes are equally unlikely to quash these feuds imo.

but i digress... as of now, the hold-outs are the ones that seem to be keeping us there. if they were outspoken in favor of withdrawal, republican politicians would be much more willing to vote to get us out of there. as it is, politicians only care about getting reelected - and ignoring the will of the public isn't a good way to get reelected.

it isn't typical to criticize the public over bush with regard to this war, but the public hasn't ever gotten its hands dirty over the war either. much too convenient for people removed from the mayhem to conveniently say to keep our troops there on extended, repeated tours of duty - for no clear mission/purpose.

[brien]

Unfortunately, unless Congress can come up with enough votes to overide yesterday's veto, this war will most likely drag on until the next President's inauguration. And this assumes, we elect a President that will end the war. So at the present rate of mortal casualties for American soldiers, if the war ends on 1-22-09, that would be about another 2250 deaths. I wonder if the soldiers in Iraq look around at each other and wonder, "him/her or me"?

[grandpa]

Quote by: brien Unfortunately, unless Congress can come up with enough votes to overide yesterday's veto, this war will most likely drag on until the next President's inauguration. And this assumes, we elect a President that will end the war.

That's a problem. So many Americans say "let's just wait until the next
election to tame the war machine." They'll say "we have a duty to make it work" by voting. But voting isn't good enough. War is more than casting a ballot.

Grandpa h.

[RickSp]

Quote by: grandpa That's a problem. So many Americans say "let's just wait until the next election to tame the war machine." They'll say "we have a duty to make it work" by voting. But voting isn't good enough. War is more than casting a ballot. Grandpa h.

Along those lines, here is an excerpt from a e-mail from Voters for Peace:

President Bush expects Congress to respond to his veto by giving him funding for the wars without any restrictions, guidelines or accountability. We need Congress to stand up to Bush and say NO to his bullying tactics. TAKE ACTION NOW to make sure that Congress Stands Up to Bush's Veto! Call your member of Congress TODAY to say "STAND UP TO BUSH'S VETO: Don't extend the war, end the war!" Call the Congressional Switchboard TODAY at (202) 224-3121. Ask for the office of your Representative or Senators. If your member of Congress is not available, ask to talk to the foreign policy advisor. If you can't speak to anyone on the phone, leave a voicemail. You can find your member of Congress here. Write a letter to your local newspaper. We need to show Congress that voters support their stand up to Bush-- help us get this message out by sending your letter today! Plan an action in your community! For an idea on an action you can host, check out this historic action VotersForPeace participated in last week in the Hart Senate building. More than 100 people expressed their opposition to more funds for war, resulting in 14 unplanned arrests. Letters from military families were read as banners dropped, and a trumpeter played taps as a military chaplain presided over a dramatic reenactment of a military funeral. Keep the momentum building in your community and sign up to host an action today!

Passivity is not an acceptible choice in times like these.

[brien]

Quote by: grandpa That's a problem. So many Americans say "let's just wait until the next election to tame the war machine." They'll say "we have a duty to make it work" by voting. But voting isn't good enough. War is more than casting a ballot. Grandpa h.

I think the majority of Americans made the statement in the last election so I agree with Ric in that now it is time to pressure those representatives who are resisting the will of the majority.

[Osborn F Enready]

Patrick Henry said: Hmm. When you get yourself an insane president, the insane war comes along as an added bonus...

When you get an insane set of values allowed to supersede logic and reason, you get a perpetual war under decades of insane presidents.

Welcome to the "war on drugs"....
War On Drugs Clock
Charts and Graphs About the Drug War
Basic Facts About the War on Drugs
Drug War Facts: Race, Prison, and the Drug Laws


Its not one man, its many men and women, over years of intellectual sloth and placement of religion and values of their own subjective nature over the rights of those around them.

[grandpa]

Quote by: RickSp Passivity is not an acceptible choice in times like these.

I agree, and I don't feel I've done enough myself.

Grandpa h.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Slevin57 Gee I wonder if any group of (Democrat) congressmen planned that one!

First, allow me to thank you for posting something with some meat on its bones......the others seem to think that one-liner insults constitute profound consideration of a subject.

As to your question, the answer is no......and yes. It was not a "group" of Democrats, though some Democrats were included, as they are a part of every carrier crew.

FYI, it was the crew of the USS Lincoln who requested the "mission accomplished" banner be made for them and it was the crew who displayed the banner. Pres. Bush served in the Texas National Air Guard as a pilot of the F-102 "Delta Dagger", was fully qualified to pilot the plane that ferried him to the Lincoln, but did not land the aircraft aboard the ship, as that requires special certification only available to Naval Aviators. And he was required to wear the flightsuit to even be aloft in that plane, so it was in no way a, "costume", even though it was probably viewed as a photo op.

Also, that marked the end of all major military operations. I don't think the president thought that it would continue this long....The military did.

At the time Pres. Bush visited the USS Lincoln, the military commanders were in complete agreement that major operations had been successfully concluded. It was not until the insurgency gained a foothold in Falujah that anything major was even considered after that. No tank battles with Saddam's Russian tanks. No dogfights in the air or pilots dodging SAM's. No airstrikes on production facilities or Command and Control centers.

In fact, when the Texas National Guard deployed to the sandbox in '04, they had to first be re-flagged from an armored division (49th) to an infantry division (36), simply because no more tanks were needed......just boots on the ground.

But since when do we listen to the military!?

Bush gets more military briefings in a week than Clinton ever got in a month, sir. Unless you were in on those briefings, I seriously doubt that you have any idea what was said or what was "listened to", making me wonder if you do not consider a few retired generals complaining only when it is safe to do so as, "the military".

This war will continue for a long time. Just as our other reconstruction efforts have. I don't really know who to beleive as far as are the Iraqi's satisfied or not.

Again, FYI.......the "war in Iraq" has been over for over 3 years now......the War on Terror continues, both in overseas theaters and at home, just as Pres. Bush has always warned it would.

Also, by posting ideas supportive of our enemy's view on a forum available to both that enemy and our troops stationed in those theaters, some here easily qualify themselves as traitors, according to the Constitutional definition of the term. Such speech, transmitted to our troops in either WWI or WWII would have easily earned them prison time, if not an execution. Even dodging the draft was a hanging offense in WWI.

The Media is on a kick to say they aren't. Our Generals say different things. The soldiers I know, and I live in the largest military area in the world, bring back a more positive message. At the same time, some soldiers are bringing back a negative message. I think this probably has something to do with where they stand on the war, the reality of the situation isn't all the relevant.

Don't get me started on the traitors in our media.......as for the troops, I also have access to many of them in the 36th Infantry Division, as they deploy to and return from both Afghanistan and Iraq.........some like Bush, some don't (I try to avoid political issues with them), but nearly all agree that the job isn't finished as long as we can kill or capture more members of Al-Qaeda -- and we are.

Central Iraq (Baghdad) is unstable. Northern and Southern Iraq are quite stable.

You're perhaps unaware of recent successes in Bagdad and Al-Anbar.......though your description is not without merit.

This is why president Bush deployed more troops to that area, and Secretary Gates issued marching orders for 11,000 more national guardsmen. The Media was reporting failure before half of the troops were even in place. I don't think I'm going to go with the media on this one.

Finally, someone here who doesn't swallow all the media bs without at least a cursory critical viewing.

Bravo.


Carry on.

[RickSp]

Oh dilly, do you believe the lies yourself or do you pass them along and hope that the rest of us are gullible or uniformed?

After claiming that it was all the crew's doing and that the White House had nothing whatsoever to do with it, the White House did finally admit that it had produced the "Mission Accomplished" Banner.

'Mission Accomplished' Whodunit
W. House Changes Stories On Much-Mocked Banner At Carrier Speech

Bush: "I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff — they weren't that ingenious, by the way." Six months after he spoke on an aircraft carrier deck under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," President Bush disavowed any connection with the war message. Later, the White House changed its story and said there was a link. "Today was another banner day in George Bush's quest to bring honor and integrity to the White House," Lieberman said. "If he wanted to prove he has trouble leveling with the American people, mission accomplished."

Of course the White House still claims that it was the crew's idea. Sure. Karl Rove probably whispered in their ear. Karl must have been involved. He is on the record expressing his regrets over using the White House produced banner.

Rove regrets using banner declaring ‘Mission Accomplished’

[ladyphoenix]

Quote by: Slevin57 Gee I wonder if any group of (Democrat) congressmen planned that one!

Right... The president has a period of time after a bill has been passed by both the Senate and the House to veto a bill. That span of time is quite a bit more than 24 hours. He could have EASILY signed it days before or days after, not specifically on that day. If it was ANYONE'S planning, it was his.

[dilligras]

Apparently some cannot be bothered to read their own links, before posting them.

From rick's link:

President Bush’s top political adviser said this week that he regretted the use of a “Mission Accomplished” banner as a backdrop for the president’s landing on an aircraft carrier last May to mark the end of major combat operations in Iraq. “I wish the banner was not up there,” White House political strategist Karl Rove said Thursday at an editorial board meeting with The Columbus Dispatch in Ohio. “I’ll acknowledge the fact that it has become one of those convenient symbols.” Rove echoed Bush’s contention that the phrase referred to the carrier crew’s completing their 10-month mission, not the military’s completing its mission in Iraq. --------snip------- The banner, which has been a source of controversy for the Bush administration, has been mocked many times over the failed search for weapons of mass destruction and the continuing violence in Iraq. Bush said in October that the White House had nothing to do with the banner; a spokesman later clarified that the ship’s crew asked for the sign and that the White House staff had it made by a private vendor. It was not clear who paid for the sign. Rove also predicted that “we’re going to win Ohio comfortably” in the race against Bush’s Democratic rival, Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.

(bold mine)

So, Rove, instead of claiming the banner was the idea of the White House, designed to illustrate the declaration of the end of major operations, as the title of the article linked by our Volconvo "junior investigative journalist" (quotes indicating extreme liberties taken with terminology) would have us believe, actually confirmed that it was requested by the crew, who do not have shipboard facilities for the manufacture of such banners, as acknowledgement of their completion of a record-breaking deployment.

Well, golllllllleeee, Sargent Carter! Them lefties are at it agin!![/Gomer Pyle]


As you were.