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| | #121 (permalink) (top) | ||
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Quote:
That's a phenomenal denial that, in my opinion, should be placed on the scandal meter somewhere near Holocaust denial. I have a hard time even addressing this denial as anything but stupidty, because you would literally have to be stupid to not see such an obvious trend. Quote:
Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | ||
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| | #122 (permalink) (top) | |||
| Igneous Magma Location: Southwest desert - Valley of the Sun Posts: 636 | Quote:
That refusal to acknowledge the very harsh realities of this world.. is proof positive of the capitalists control of the media.. we live with a population of ever increasing.. dumb people. They simply have been disconnected from reality. They do not see anything more than what is shown them. Quote:
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| | #123 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
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| | #124 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
On the contrary, it has been part of Grandps's entire thesis is that all that matters is what is seen. The capitalists understands what is not seen is important and needs to be measured as well. | |
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| | #125 (permalink) (top) | |||
| Igneous Magma Location: Southwest desert - Valley of the Sun Posts: 636 | Quote:
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...And: Quote:
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| | #126 (permalink) (top) | |
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Quote:
But, of course, some will just say you're being pessimistic, or practicing the politics of envy. Intelligent People talk about ideas, and, a sfar as I'm concerned, they need to go out of their way to seriously question power. Even a curosyr glimpse into human history should remind us of that need. because I do so, I've been accused of practicaly every kind of political kookiness imaginable, including that: 1. I'm a totalitarian state communist 2. my philosophy means all human knowledge and creative instincts would somehow instantly be lost 3. I want a "hunter/gatherer" society Then there are the attempts to sidetrack debate, where apparently people forget common enough words in the English language (like "what's a sweatshop?," or "what's self-sufficiency?"). I doubt I agree with every one of his views, but he is quite good at demonstrating political manipulation. Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | |
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| | #127 (permalink) (top) | |||
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Well, it's hard to discuss an issue when you assume all human motivations and knowledge would be on the brink of extinction in a less hierarchical, more egalitarian society. That's an irrational assumption, and I know as much by logical deduction. Quote:
In addition to this bizarre assumption, you 1. fail to research into the Spanish Revolution 2. assume they had no clue what they were doing Those two things reveal your ideological bias. Please read this and get back to me: Infoshop.org - An Anarchist FAQ - I.8 Does revolutionary Spain show that libertarian socialism can work in practice? Quote:
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Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | |||
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| | #128 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
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| | #129 (permalink) (top) | |
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Quote:
Another example is the Israeli Kibbutz movement. Though it's been undermined by the Israeli state, it still serves as a decent example. You keep saying I haven't provided examples, but I clearly just have. On top of that, logical deduction should indicate that not all innovation and motivation will simply disappear once society is arranged differently. Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | |
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| | #130 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
The Israeli kibbutz requires support from the Israeli (capitalist?) government to survive. The claim is that motivation or innovation would dissapear. The claim is that a system is needed to efficiently direct it. | |
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| | #131 (permalink) (top) | ||
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Quote:
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I don't think people need to be bombarded with advertising or orders to carried out to find motivation. In fact, feeling like a robot or a slave often stifles motivation and innovation. Nor do I think people need to pursue unrelated tasks in order to live comfortably (you know, such as popping popcorn in a movie theater to live in an apartment). The system is just rigged that way. Direct democracy actually is applicable, and it can be quite motivational when it occurs. A question we should all be interested in is whether so many organizations must be so hierarchical? We should all know by now that such arrangements are very capable of producing mindless obedience and sheer disaster. Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | ||
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| | #132 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
But I fail to see why producers of the component parts of sports equipment, plastics, string, leather, canvas ect would automatically bend in order to fit the needs of the sports equipment folks. After all, the tupperware people need plastic as well, and the motorcycle clun associations probably need leather jackets. | |
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| | #133 (permalink) (top) | |
| blasphemer Location: Michigan Posts: 7,946 | Quote:
Yahoo! Groups Yahoo! Groups Yahoo! Groups Yahoo! Groups Yahoo! Groups People in the above examples knew they had to work things out lest they be perpetual victims of the global economy (and feel like automatons in the workplace). Grandpa h. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (unless it costs something). | |
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| | #134 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: Southwest desert - Valley of the Sun Posts: 636 | Had a thought today.. capitalism is as to democracy.. what nuclear fission (as in atom bomb.. not hydrogen bomb) is to steady - state nuclear fusion... as in the stars. As in "quick & dirty" vs nearly limitless.. and intelligent.. Greed sucks.. |
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| | #135 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuehnelt-Leddihn Location: Brookyn, USA Posts: 774 | Quote:
And this is because there is nothing "uncapitalist" about worker owned industry. The question always is how they structure their relationship amongst each other, between worker and consumer. Which is why answers like "people will figure it out" is a non-answer, and a complete dodge and abdication of responsibility. | |
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