Vote for Rudy or Die!

[bishop]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio We might as well dismantle the military, we'll never ever be able to fight another war again.

if we leave iraq, the sky will fall, eh? perhaps, even worse, the universe as we know it will even collapse upon itself.

have you no more stomach to assert your "knowledge" about the constitution? going back to your support of guiliani's argument that paltry modifications to the patriot act will somehow increase the threat of terrorism..... it speaks volumes how you abandoned your previous arguments and are now toting this "the sky is falling" line. sounds like more fear-mongering to me, rather than truly intelligent arguments.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio If we go ahead and give up, stop this war, call it quits.. We might as well dismantle the military, we'll never ever be able to fight another war again.

An attractive alternative. Not fighting unnecessary wars that only get good Americans killed and waste trillions of dollars would be a good thing. Fighting in self-defense is another matter entirely.

As it is, your idiot king has overextended and very nearly destroyed our military. We have the worst of all possible alternatives - an endless and needless war that is dismantling our military day by day.

[xyzer]

What the mayor was implying to those of us who understand the danger of international terrorism was...That the democrat candidates past and present have been conciliatory to our enemies.(terrorists and those who harbor and sponsor terrorism.) blaming instead our country and those in charge since the ClintonAdministration for causing these bloodthirsty maniacs to try and injure the world!.

The Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns were designed in part to thwart the spread or terrorism. But they deposed a disruptive tyrant and regime in Afghanistan that sponsored 9/11. They accompanied a security crackdown and internal preperations to preven further attacks!

All the while we had bozos like Kerry saying, if I'm elected I'll talk to these people. Pelosi running over to hostile countries(which sponsor and condone Islamic terrorism) accompanied by fellow Democrat ttravelers,and wanting to talk. Reid bleating about the war being lost when we won it three years ago! Clinton sitting before a kneeling intern and downright ignoring terrorist attacks on our Navy and overseas embassies. A bomb in the basement of one of the twin towers didn't diminish his erectile functions long enough for him to do something. He even failed to act when we could have knocked out Osama? Why because he was preoccupied with chicks! Or maybe dodging lamps thrown by his wife? I don't know whether lamp throwing shows an aggressive potential commander in chief either? Oh yes, I guess brother Clinton did show some manlike aggressive tendencies he and his crew trashed the Whithouse offices as they left.
Yep the Mayor's right. Elect a demo and you elect a conciliatory pacifist. $400 dollar haircuts do not an aggressive president make? A newbie senator and a second term senator don't put me in mind of any bold aggressive players on the foreign policy scene either? We don't need concilaitory wimps in a war! I'm convinced we are at war!

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer What the mayor was implying to those of us who understand the danger of international terrorism was...That the democrat candidates past and present have been conciliatory to our enemies.(terrorists and those who harbor and sponsor terrorism.) blaming instead our country and those in charge since the ClintonAdministration for causing these bloodthirsty maniacs to try and injure the world!.

I would suggest that those of us who survived 9/11 up close and personal may have a better grasp of the meaning of international terrorism than fear mongers hiding out in the mountains of New Mexico.

The Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns were designed in part to thwart the spread or terrorism.

All the fiasco in Iraq has done is to create new training grounds for terrorists. That is what even Bush's CIA has said. Bush and his minions let Bin Laden escape from Tora Bora and AlQaeda is alive well and growing. Anyone who thinks George Bush has made us safer should get his meds adjusted.

Rudy is an incompetent cross-dressing philandering thug who did nothing to protect New York against a terrorist attack even after having seven years to do so.

[bishop]

Quote by: xyzer The Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns were designed in part to thwart the spread or terrorism.

iraq was designed to thwart the spread of terrorism????

you want another aggressive politician, eh? maybe someone who'll start a war of his own - with iran?

namecalling (i.e. "diminished erectile functions" and "conciliatory wimps) is pretty damn juvenile. where have all the conservative intellectuals gone?

[xyzer]

Fighting in self-defense is another matter entirely.

It sure is Rick! Ask any military expert whether defense wins wars? I think you'll get a negative answer. How long did the Maginot Line stop the germans in WW2?

If you are convinced we are in a war against international terrorists, and few Democrat are lately, It wont be won by words and defensive posturing.Mother Pelosi notwithstanding.
It will take an aggressive campaign against terrorists where they reside and operate. It's obvious that our borders are too extensive and country too used to freedom the set up an impervious defense against attacks; and its obvious that they will continue.

I'm convinced Iraq was mishandled and we have tried to play big brother too long? We must turn the country over to the existing government and quit trying to do their own crime control functions with our army! But I'm also convinced it has put other Isamic countries who harbor and even subsidize terrorism that they too may meet the same fate as Saddam and his evil henchman. If they are smart they will cooperate, leave Israel alone, and help us ferret out these rats who would murder our innocent civilians.

[xyzer]

All the fiasco in Iraq has done is to create new training grounds for terrorists

Yep it has. Training in how to avoid getting killed or captured. Plus it has reduced their numbers and made them escape artists along with experts in killing their own kind!

[xyzer]

namecalling (i.e. "diminished erectile functions" and "conciliatory wimps) is pretty damn juvenile. where have all the conservative intellectuals gone

Since when did the truth become name calling, bishop? Clinton is still unabashadly chasing chicks for a sideline, which would suggest that his erectile functions still exist.Are you denying that an intern ever intruded into his personal and official life?
A wimp is in my parlance a person who wants to talk. or runs way, when he gets punched in the nose.The dictionary indicates its a weak person.

I think my descriptions are above the juvenile level for those who dwell above the juvenile level.

[bishop]

this "truth" is nothing more than mindless mud slinging.. in the first page of this thread, there was debate over more intellectual topics, now you're introduced things like "diminished erectile functions" and "conciliatory wimps" into the fray - lowering the level of the debate...

if you want to play this brainy game, be fair and don't exclude...



that's one sexy wannabe president!

[xyzer]

this "truth" is nothing more than mindless mud slinging

Really? Are you denying there was a women in Clintons life(besides his wife) who he admitted to having sex with? Didn't he lie to the nation about this and later admit he lied? Did he get impeached for nothing?
I'm just using my own version of facts and what I said has a large degree of certaity to those mature enough to take the humor in it.

There was a major network TV production pointing out his deriliction about the onset of terrorist acts during his presidency. One of his military aids pointed out some of this. Calls to his office trying to get permission to take out Bin Laden were ignored, why? He suddely ordered a missile attack on a Sudanese owned pill factory because it was supposed to producing chemical agents. Why? It was later proved to be producing legal pharmecueticals. Why wasn't he and his administration called before a Congrssional oversight committee? It has been suggested this whole operation was designed to deflect his legal trouble over his overactive erectile functions..
What I'm pointing out is President clinton was so preoccupied that he let terrorism develop and did little if anything about it.

[bishop]

talk about irrelevant... last time i checked, he wasn't running for office again.

how about you get back on topic?

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer It sure is Rick! Ask any military expert whether defense wins wars? I think you'll get a negative answer. How long did the Maginot Line stop the germans in WW2?

Ask a military expert? I needn't ask you as you obviously do not qualify. Any fool knows that fighting in self defense doesn't mean "a defensive war". Wonder how you missed that one. But you seem to admire "aggressive war", which is still a war crime.

You ask, how long did the Maginot line stop the Germans? The question should be, how long did it take the Allies to stop the Germans? The answer is less time that it has taken Bush to lose the war in Iraq. Folks who invade countries who have never attacked them often lose. Another lesson of history that has evaded you.

All Bush has done in Iraq is waste lives and treasure while making us less safe.

[shawmutt]

Pelosi running over to hostile countries(which sponsor and condone Islamic terrorism) accompanied by fellow Democrat ttravelers,and wanting to talk.

That's a surprise, you missed all the Republicans that went over. You also missed the fact that we are doing business with Saudi Arabia, where many of the terrorists in the 9/11 attack came from. You also missed the fact that terror attacks, while tragic, are few and far between--more people in the US commit suicide than die from suicide terror attacks! About 3,000 people died in the 9/11 attack. In 2001, about 30,000 Americans committed suicide!

9/11 was planned and executed by 100 people tops. Now, thanks to our President and higher ups, there are many more groups and countries more than a little pissed at us.

I am an advocate for withdrawel, and redeployment to Afghanistan to finish one job. "Oh but those poor Iraqis!" the compassionate conservative will say. Twenty to fifty Iraqis are dying per day. Do you think it can get much worse? Oh, Bush's surge is working alright, because they stopped counting suicide bombings!.

Always a pleasure to talk to one of the 9% that think Bush is doing a good job.

[xyzer]

Hey Rick..

Ask a military expert? I needn't ask you as you obviously do not qualify. Any fool knows that fighting in self defense doesn't mean "a defensive war". Wonder how you missed that one. But you seem to admire "aggressive war", which is still a war crime

I'm not sure I fit the bill for an expert but I do have some qualifications. A college degree in military science from Univ of Md and over 20 years active duty in the Marine Corps.Besides that, I served in combat zones in three wars. I'm not exactly an arm chair general like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi? I've been there done that! I'm not sure either of those politicians qualify as experts on anything but personal aggrandizement?

[xyzer]

You also missed the fact that terror attacks, while tragic, are few and far between--more people in the US commit suicide than die from suicide terror attacks! About 3,000 people died in the 9/11 attack. In 2001, about 30,000 Americans committed suicide!

Come on shawmutt?
I didn't miss any such thing! I've previously posted my opinion that we should withdraw and let the Iraqi authorities fight their own crime wave!

We are using the resources and manpower the we used in the battle phase of this campaign, to fight a few criminals trying to stir up trouble and get world wide media attention! It's obvious!
Plus I was against the whole Iraqi venture from the start. But once the congress authorized the thing, I supported our national effort!
I've been for bringing this sham war to a close for quire some time now.
We can fight terrorism in other ways..

[RickSp]

Quote by: xyzer I'm not sure I fit the bill for an expert but I do have some qualifications. A college degree in military science from Univ of Md and over 20 years active duty in the Marine Corps.Besides that, I served in combat zones in three wars.

And after all that, you support war crimes and the needless deaths of fine American soldiers in a war of choice. Well, it is always the old men soldiers who brag of glory as they send the young off to slaughter.

[bishop]

Quote by: xyzer I'm not exactly an arm chair general like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi? I've been there done that! I'm not sure either of those politicians qualify as experts on anything but personal aggrandizement?

and giuliani does?? he's another chicken hawk. not that i think it matters since you've been supportive of the current crop of chicken hawks squatting in the white house.

Rudy Giuliani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Upon graduation, Giuliani clerked for Judge Lloyd MacMahon, United States District Judge for the Southern District of New York. Giuliani did not serve in the military during the Vietnam War era; he received a student deferment while at Manhattan College and another while at NYU Law. Upon graduation from the latter in 1968, he was classified as "1-A", available for military service. He applied for a deferment but was rejected. In 1969, MacMahon wrote a letter to Giuliani's draft board, asking that he be reclassified as 2-A, civilian occupation deferment, because Giuliani, who was a law clerk for MacMahon, was an essential employee. The deferment was granted. In 1970, Giuliani received a high draft lottery number; he was not called up for service although by then he had been reclassified 1-A.[15][16

[xyzer]

Another thing that you liberals and your calculating political leaders have done quite well is to submerge all the really important domestic issues of our time, beneath the mantle of the Iraqi War and Occupation!

Admittedly we have troops in a dangerous situation over there and should support them.(or IMO get them out of that benighted country)..but what in the hell is the Congress doing about Social security, Immigration reform and control, subsidies for alternative energy development, tax reform and continuation at present levels,...and other legislation that will help our nation and its citizens?

The economy is great but the rest of the issues need attention and obviously with Bush and the Repubs on the run before withering attacks about the war in Iraq they are not getting any attention!


We have been duped into believing that the prime responsibility of congress is foreign relationa. Domesitic needs are not important! What are these erstwhile candidates discussing? You got it, the war!
Its going to be a great political campaign featuring the war in Iraq and how to solve it plus personality presentations to show what great gonzos we have running for the highest office in our nation? Who makes the least flops or is it flips and who has the best smile, haircut of whatever? and of course there is the war?

[xyzer]

And after all that, you support war crimes and the needless deaths of fine American soldiers in a war of choice. Well, it is always the old men soldiers who brag of glory as they send the young off to slaughter.

I'm laughing over that one! What the hell do you think war is Rick? It's all about killing and survival, getting the 'muthas' before they get you, Breaking things and killing people by any means available!

For you and others to want us to coddle an enemy that is trying and threatening to kill all of us is ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of war. Yes it is evil and yes the tactics involved don't involve fondling the enemy. Sure, forms of interrogation not permitted by civilian police are permitted in war.

By the way the war crimes you neophytes keep bringing up are minimal for the number of troops and length of time of the campaign.
Study some of the casualties in China and elsewhere in the Pacific attributed to the Japanes during WW2 if you want to see some shocking figures. They commonly chopped off the heads of prisoners and worked them to death. The killed thousands of Chines civilians just for fun and even practiced sworsmanship by cutting off Chines civilians heads..

And you make a big deal out of a guard flushing a Kuran down the toilet? Or some recalcitrant prisoner getting the crap beaten outof him for spitting on a guard. Some poor POW not being given his right to an attorney whose shouklder he can cry on? Get real!

[RickSp]

I know, xyzer. You've already established that you have greater admiration for Genghis Khan than George Washington. Your problem not mine.