Should We Trust the US Nation?

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

In electing your supreme commander from whom ever is sponsored via your vast corporate bodies and lobby teams, will you just go for the home issues and easy tax burdens et al.

Or will you take an outsiders look at the cnadidates. Should they present diplomacy on the world stage. Should they define the strength of a great nation or the face of an irrational bully who shoots first and asks questions later. With neither them nor their advisors considering the possible consequences of their actions on you US Citizens or for that matter the rest of us.

Perhaps after the first run offs there should be cooling off period with the main final (two?) candidates being subjected to a tour of foreign lands to seek a mandate from the world?

[xyzer]

I'll bite! Who is we? the Muslim community, the Republicans in the US, the Democrats in the US, the United Nations?

One thing we in the USA know is we can elect our officials for limited terms and If you represent the Islamic nations I ask can you elect who you want to direct your lives and your nation? Or do you have to put up for long periods of time with autocratic tyrants and royal rulers? Do you have to put up with religious police who can punish you for non conformity with religious dogma?
In the USA there is a rule of law and a non sectarian government that doesn't enforce religious beliefs. We are free to do and believe what we want without fear of retaliation.
As to Bullys, don't they usually get payback for their nefarious deeds. The USA became a bully after Islamics attacked them several times? Remember 9/11, the Cole bombing, embassy bombings and the like. What are we supposed to do to thwart those who threaten to kill us and destroy our country? What does the Kuran say you should do when that happens?...Go on a jihad? Accept Islam?

[Milton Bradley]

Obviously international relations are important to me. It's one of the philosophies that lead me away from the all to familiar Republican vs. Democrat sales pitch.


Ron Paul is the only recognizable politician out there I could muster the courage to vote for in 08. ( Realizing, of course that the Libertarian candidate has not been announced as of this writing. )

[Slevin57]

I vote from the perspective of an American.

I vote for things that I believe will better America and it's people.

I do not vote for things that will please the international community and certainly not another country.

[Scribbler1]

I would say not having the rest of the world hating our guts IS better for the American people.
We tried it with the "us vs. them" cowboy and you see where it got us. Perhaps a philosophy that admits we share the planet with a LOT of other countries might be worth a try.

But to answer the original question. Never forget there is a difference between trusting the American PEOPLE and the U.S. government. This government can NOT be trusted.

But Xyzer's question is valid. Who is "we"?

[Mr.Vicchio]

We should return to the days when we governed by what other countries want, and when Terror Strikes, go to the UN and make a speech.

People liked us then.

Of course, if something comes up like say.. a sudden return of the Cold war.. Russia goes for the old USSR routine, you'll see Europe do a 180 and profess how much they ADORE us and need our protection... again.

[Slevin57]

I think we should clarify something..

It's the PEOPLE that hate America, not the countries. And even if our trading partners are unhappy with us, they are not barring us from trading or hurting America at all.

Nobody ever died of discontent.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: xyzer I'll bite! Who is we?

Yes xyzer;371969 you bit and thanks for an honest view of those who are misguided in their lifestyle choices.

I am not from the community whose tolerance of the world is outdated.

The WE I speak from is the "rest of the world".

Quote by: xyzer Go on a jihad? Accept Islam?

xyzer;371969 There is nothing anyone could do that would cause me to do either of these. My tolerance levels, sworn allegances and abhorance of any faith that advocates death to unbeleivers is far too strong.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Milton Bradley thank you, I'll watch Ron Paul's progress.

Slevin57, fair comment, I'm sure most of the "WE"'s consider bugger the others it's our country and why should anyone else have a say.

Nobody ever died of discontent

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True though many are unhappy, but hey that's their problem.

Scribbler1

But to answer the original question. Never forget there is a difference between trusting the American PEOPLE and the U.S. government. This government can NOT be trusted.

You nail the issue, can you the PEOPLE not augment the changes necessary to bring your power house to a far greater level of accountability?

MrVicchio

Russia goes for the old USSR routine, you'll see Europe do a 180 and profess how much they ADORE us and need our protection... again.

Don't count on it. Our talented politicians are immobile and the peoples appathy is at a tremendous height. Besides Russia has oil gas and billionares, could be good for us. And having no choice makes life so much easier :)

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel Scribbler1 You nail the issue, can you the PEOPLE not augment the changes necessary to bring your power house to a far greater level of accountability?

These days it's hard to keep the leadership in line when too many people are deliberately unaware of what is going on.
I would say it's the same for mainstream Muslims as it concerns the radical parts of that faith.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Slevin57 I vote from the perspective of an American. I vote for things that I believe will better America and it's people. I do not vote for things that will please the international community and certainly not another country.

I'm sure to remember that when your selfish country needs something.

But to answer the original question. Never forget there is a difference between trusting the American PEOPLE and the U.S. government. This government can NOT be trusted.

Indeed. Esspecially after even more BS has come out about the Friendly Fire incident that killed buddy that the military used for their own propaganda purposes..... not to mention the lady who had her weapon jam and was captured, when they said she went out like Rambo.....

Every dam thing that US government says is not only BS, but not one dam thing I have seen that government do in the last 5+ years ever went towards benifitting the US people...... it's all been towards how long they can fight the war, how many of their soldiers they can kill, lie about how they were killed, lie about why they are being killed, lie about why you're fighting the war in the first place, lies lies..... absolute lies and nothing but..... if this was happening in my own country and was so dam transparent as the Republicans have been and half assed about their lies and cover ups, I would have done everything in my, and everybody else's power, to remove them years ago......

The moment you can't trust the government that is there for you the people, is the exact same moment that government should step down.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Praxius The moment you can't trust the government that is there for you the people, is the exact same moment that government should step down.

The only problem there is the fact that government doesn't LIKE to step down. And it takes far too many people to make it do such a thing. With our ratio of idiot sheep to concerned citizen/patriots it is virtually impossible to make the government even CONSIDER changing its methods.

I assume that in the end, our citizens have the loudest mouths when it comes to crowing about how patriotic we are, but when it comes time to direct that talk at the actual people who govern us they grab a beer and turn on the TV, preferring to let the same government they bitch about "take care of" them.

Every dam thing that US government says is not only BS, but not one dam thing I have seen that government do in the last 5+ years ever went towards benifitting the US people.

That's a very good point. There may be a few small things the federal government does that actually benefit the people in general, there isn't much they do other than prop up the big business interests that actually run the people who run the country.

[jose]

SURFING THE APOCALYPSE TV

Has America entered an ORWELLIAN world of doublespeak where outright lies can pass for the truth? Are Americans being sold a bill of goods by a handful of transnational media corporations and political elites whose interests have little in common with the interests of the American people? ORWELL ROLLS IN HIS GRAVE explores what the media doesn't like to talk about - itself.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Mr.Vicchio We should return to the days when we governed by what other countries want, and when Terror Strikes, go to the UN and make a speech. People liked us then. Of course, if something comes up like say.. a sudden return of the Cold war.. Russia goes for the old USSR routine, you'll see Europe do a 180 and profess how much they ADORE us and need our protection... again.

Your sarcasm is ironic, Mr.V, since doing things the way you apparently prefer -- the Bush League way -- has worked out SoOOOOooo well for us. </sneering sarcasm> Not!!!

Quote by: Praxius I'm sure to remember that when your selfish country needs something.

Indeed. For example... the British government went out of their way, at great risk to their popularity, to stand four square with their allies, the U.S., in the war in Iraq. But when it comes time for the U.S. to stand behind Britain... **POOF** ...the Bush League is nowhere to be seen.

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[Esquelito]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel In electing your supreme commander from whom ever is sponsored via your vast corporate bodies and lobby teams, will you just go for the home issues and easy tax burdens et al. Or will you take an outsiders look at the cnadidates. Should they present diplomacy on the world stage...

Arawn, what's YOUR country doing to stop our supreme commander? For what it's worth, the man wasn't elected by the popular vote. The supreme court appointed him as president in the 2000 election (Gore had more votes) after the voting machines malfunctioned in Florida (a state in which George Bush's brother, Jeb, was governor). In the 2004 election, the election was stolen (or bought, depending on how you look at it) via the State of Ohio. Massive amounts of votes for the opposition candidate were lost, not counted, or worse yet, the voters weren't even given a chance to cast their votes, due to "malfunctioning" voting machines. Now, after two stolen elections, we've gotten a little more alert to what's going on, and we saw a complete reversal in the 2006 election for the congress.

I tell you these things not because I need to defend the system of government in my country, but because I don't think you have all the facts. Once again, let me ask you my original question...what are YOU and YOUR country doing to stop this perceived world atrocity that Bush is carrying out? The whole world got together and stopped Hitler. The whole world got together and stopped Mussolini. If the whole world thinks Bush is a mad man, then the whole world should stop him...not just the American voters.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Esquelito Once again, let me ask you my original question...what are YOU and YOUR country doing to stop this perceived world atrocity that Bush is carrying out? The whole world got together and stopped Hitler. The whole world got together and stopped Mussolini. If the whole world thinks Bush is a mad man, then the whole world should stop him...not just the American voters.

I don't think suggesting the rest of the world should declare war on the US is any more a legitimate option than US invading Iraq and taking out their ruler.

How about a slightly less insane suggestion.

[Esquelito]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I don't think suggesting the rest of the world should declare war on the US is any more a legitimate option than US invading Iraq and taking out their ruler. How about a slightly less insane suggestion.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting war. Economic sanctions might bring the man to his knees. If some country, such as China which owns most of the US debt, were to put a little financial pressure on the fake cowboy, he might have to change his stubborn ways.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Esquelito I wasn't necessarily suggesting war. Economic sanctions might bring the man to his knees. If some country, such as China which owns most of the US debt, were to put a little financial pressure on the fake cowboy, he might have to change his stubborn ways.

Nah. You know Bush. That would likely just make him all the more stubborn and belligerent.
China knows, or should know, that when pressed too much this country can just default on the money we owe to anyone.
The only way to do it would be to put the pressure on CONGRESS. They are the people who need to be reelected and if they start getting thrown out wholesale they would dump Bush like a bad habit, and that means the Republicans as well.
The problem is the idiot sheep get all fired up about a certain presidential candidate and never think about Congress until their people come up for reelection, but they never think of Congress as a body.

If we can get these fools to realize if the people focus on Congress, a poor president can be dealt with that way, and ONLY that way. The bottom line is we just have to wait this criminal out. But the dopes will elect someone smart enough to not get CAUGHT behaving like Bush. Remember, Bush is just a valuable lesson to all the current candidates. The new guy is rarely better and certainly not more effective, but he will be more clever than the stumbler-in-chief.

[Osborn F Enready]

Arawn, Milton covered my perspective.

[Osborn F Enready]

Slevins 57 said: I vote for things that I believe will better America and it's people.

The bad thing is that too many people do that today based on subjective BS and their personal values, as opposed to AMERICAN values, which are INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, and SELF-GOVERNMENT.

That is American, not the BS that comes from people who deny them, which is the bi-partisan majority.

Americans today have forgot the cost of liberty and self-government, and also the value since it has been so long since they have seen it.

We are in a grazing pasture, waiting for the slaughter that comes from intellectual sloth.