Taliban marketing: 12 year-old beheads "US spy"

[fushigi]

This is the most gruesome thing I've ever read. NOT FOR THE WEAK.

Story.

Normally I'd go look for the video, but this one sounds like too much even for me.

The boy with the knife looks barely 12. In a high-pitched voice, he denounces the bound, blindfolded man before him as an American spy. Then he hacks off the captive's head to cries of "God is great!" and hoists it in triumph by the hair. A video circulating in Pakistan records the grisly death of Ghulam Nabi, a Pakistani militant accused of betraying a top Taliban official who was killed in a December airstrike in Afghanistan.

My question is, who the hell follows madmen like this? This is their idea of marketing?

The violence will eventually become so extreme that the Islamists will eventually lose all support, like they did in Morocco in the '80s. Then Muslim countries will have no choice but to jump into bed with the US.

Jesus, what a pair of options. A theocratic state that has children behead "spies," or a foreign invader that blows up your children and calls it "collateral damage." Nice.

[shawmutt]

Using children to wage war is nothing new to Muslims, Christians, etc. It has been going on for decades in South America and Africa, and it can be argued that it has been going on since man picked up the first weapon. Here's an article on it-- Human Rights Watch: Child Soldiers

The only thing new is the technology and proliferation of the media that guarantee "messages" like this will be spread around the world.

[fushigi]

That's the point - this was staged deliberately as a message for its shock value.

And to think, the majority of the Muslim world supports al Qaeda/Taliban over the US. That's pretty astonishing, given how easy they're making it for us to seem OK in contrast.

[shawmutt]

the majority of the Muslim world supports al Qaeda/Taliban over the US

Care to back that up?

[The Decider]

Quote by: shawmutt Care to back that up?

Actually it would seem that a majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims reject Osama bin Laden and the Taliban:

World Public Opinion

[fushigi]

Most of the polls are pretty old, but these three suggest that al Qaeda had more support than the US in the Middle East:

CNN.com - Poll of Saudis shows wide support for bin Laden's views - Jun 8, 2004
US Admits the War for ‘Hearts and Minds’ in Iraq is Now Lost
BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'losing media war to al-Qaeda'

It does appear that support for al Qaeda has declined dramatically in Pakistan and Jordan. I'm not sure about Iran, Syria, Palestine, and Afghanistan. Have you seen any reports?

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi Most of the polls are pretty old, but these three suggest that al Qaeda had more support than the US in the Middle East: CNN.com - Poll of Saudis shows wide support for bin Laden's views - Jun 8, 2004 US Admits the War for ‘Hearts and Minds’ in Iraq is Now Lost BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'losing media war to al-Qaeda' It does appear that support for al Qaeda has declined dramatically in Pakistan and Jordan. I'm not sure about Iran, Syria, Palestine, and Afghanistan. Have you seen any reports?

Here's the latest poll from Iran. Shiites, of course, have no reason to like a Wahhabi Sunni zealot like bin Laden. And Iranians absolutely hate the Taliban. It was the Taliban who executed several Iranian diplomats, probably on orders of bin Laden or Pakistani intelligence services.

World Public Opinion

The remaining support given to bin Laden is mostly political. They like some of the things he says, especially in opposition to Israel and American involvement in the Middle East. But the support ends on the question of terror. The previous link shows a large majority of Muslims in the world opposed to Al Qaeda's tactics, principally because they are costing the lives of many Muslims or embarrassing Muslim nations. Indonesia, for example, suffered greatly from the AQ-sponsored bombings in Bali. Osama has little following in Indonesia, the most populous Muslim nation in the world.

[fushigi]

There you go - 74% of Iranians are against al Qaeda, and 93% are against the US government.

US, Iranian Publics Not So Different - by Jim Lobe

Al Qaeda's still seen as the lesser of two evils.

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi There you go - 74% of Iranians are against al Qaeda, and 93% are against the US government. US, Iranian Publics Not So Different - by Jim Lobe Al Qaeda's still seen as the lesser of two evils.

It wasn't Al Qaeda that placed Iran in the Axis of Evil (though, as Shiites, they are seen as heretics by folks like bin Laden). When we finally take the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group and open a dialogue with Iran after 25 years of "the silent treatment," we may actually see a movement in those negative numbers. Leaving Iraq will help too.

Still, don't read that big negative number as approval of a 12 year old beheading the alleged US spy. Iranians hate the Taliban. If Iranian spies were captured in Pakistan, their fate would be similar.

[shawmutt]

There's more to the "Muslim world" than the middle east. In fact the majority of the "Muslim world" isn't in the middle east.

As far as the US not getting much support in the middle east, can you blame them?

[fushigi]

Quote by: shawmutt There's more to the "Muslim world" than the middle east. In fact the majority of the "Muslim world" isn't in the middle east.

You're right - Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim country. And - oh! They hate the US too:

Some of the sharpest drops in positive ratings over the last year came from four countries that have tended to be quite positive about the United States. <snip> Indonesia plunged 19 points—40 percent to 21 percent positive—perhaps due to the waning of the positive effect of the American aid to Indonesian tsunami victims.

Twenty-one percent in a country where al Qaeda membership is spreading fast and suicide bombings are becoming more and more common.

Al Qaeda's new frontier: Indonesia | csmonitor.com

More:

But public opinion polls have depicted a decline in support for the United States. One report - by the Congressional Research Service - said the percentage of Indonesians who have a favorable image of the United States fell to 15 percent in 2003, from 79 percent in 1999.

Quote by: shawmutt As far as the US not getting much support in the middle east, can you blame them?

Can I blame... who? The Middle East? Or the US?

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi You're right - Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim country. And - oh! They hate the US too:Twenty-one percent in a country where al Qaeda membership is spreading fast and suicide bombings are becoming more and more common.

Careful. When you say "they hate us too" some might get the idea that Indonesians hate Americans. Most don't. They dislike our pathetic president. I've lived in that country for several years. Indonesians like Americans and American products. They dislike our one-sided support of Israel and our lack of knowledge about Islam.

Al Qaeda is not popular among most Indonesians. They blame AQ for the two catastrophic bombings in Bali. We should be careful, however, not to blame all violence in Indonesia on AQ. Indonesia is still a less than stable democracy with many competing factions and ethnic groups that predate AQ. Americans are too quick to see AQ everytime a bomb explodes anywhere in the world. Osama must take great pride in that error.

[fushigi]

Quote by: The Decider Careful. When you say "they hate us too" some might get the idea that Indonesians hate Americans. Most don't.

Did you happen to notice the poll that said only 15% of Indonesians had a "favorable view of the US"?

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi Did you happen to notice the poll that said only 15% of Indonesians had a "favorable view of the US"?

The US government, yes. The American people and culture, no....I don't believe that for a second. How many Americans have been attacked in Indonesia, including fat targets like oil workers and executives? The US government is unpopular around the world. Fifteen percent actually seems rather high.

[fushigi]

No, not the US government. The US.

the percentage of Indonesians who have a favorable image of the United States fell to 15 percent

[The Decider]

Quote by: fushigi No, not the US government. The US.

Here is more detail on the Indonesian poll:

Indonesia: Indonesian views of the United States have declined sharply over the past year. A large majority (71%) now sees the US influence as mainly negative (up from 47% in 2006), while positive views of the US dropped from 40 to 21 percent. These dramatically negative views of the US also correspond to the broad Indonesian criticism of US foreign policy. Overwhelming majorities disapprove of the US handling of the war Iraq (85%), the Israel-Hezbollah war in Lebanon (81%), Iran’s nuclear program (77%), North Korea’s nuclear weapons program (73%), and the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo and other prisons (72%). A smaller majority of Indonesians (52%) also disapproves of the US handling of global warming. Not surprisingly, more than four in five (83%) in Indonesia sees the US military presence as a destabilizing force in the Middle East.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi...n07_bgasia.pdf

All of the issues mentioned involve US foreign policy, a function of the US government. Indonesians don't hate Americans per se anymore than Germans, who actually polled higher negatives regarding the US. But if you insist that Indonesians and Germans disapprove of our entire nation, government and society and everything else, then I suppose we'll simply have to disagree.

[fushigi]

These dramatically negative views of the US also correspond to the broad Indonesian criticism of US foreign policy.

As in, including their dislike of us generally.

Anyway, as this thread is about the attractiveness of the US as a governing/security force vis-a-vis al Qaeda/Taliban, Muslim views of American people seems a bit off-topic.

[Slevin57]

Well, I'd very much like the Iraqi government to ask us to leave.. But they are not doing that now are they.

[fushigi]

Heh, the only thing that would accomplish is getting a new Iraqi government. We'll leave when we're good and READY.

[brien]

And to think, the majority of the Muslim world supports al Qaeda/Taliban over the US

I am not sure this is entirely true. It perhaps is more a matter of the Muslims ignoring the reality of the Muslin extremists and refusing to clean their own house. If peaceful Muslims would destroy their own fellow violent Muslims and renounce violence, there would be no problem with the extremists. Extremists wouldn't be able to hide amoung the peaceful Muslims and emerge to do their violent acts, and then return to the comfort and security of the peaceful Muslim world. Muslims should unite, renounce violence, and purge their religion of the violent radcials so this problem doesn't eventually drag all Muslims into the global terrorist fight.