Illegal Immigration: a fact-based cost/benefit analysis

[dilligras]

Quote by: rmnunez Regarding the publication of government documents in English-only, common sense tells you this is self-defeating. Try and remember the theory is that laws must be knowable and intelligible to the people subjected to them to be applicable.

I wonder in how many different languages Mexico's government documents are printed, and why. Am I to assume that if I go invade Mexico that I am not going to be "subjected" to their laws just because they're not written in MY language?

I wonder.

Oh wait........ no I don't. :rolleyes:


As you were.

[rmnunez]

The Mexican government recently created a National Commission for Indigenous Affairs. There are up to 12 million surviving indigenous Mexicans and about half speak any of 62 identified native tongues. A consensuated phonetic transliteration using the Spanish alphabet has been developed and there are publications. The Nezahualcoyotl Prize in Indigenous Letters fosters indigenous literature and a constant effort to decypher surviving manuscripts from precolumbian cultures is underway. Nahuatl is taught in universities and elementary education is provided in native tongue for the indigenous. I can't find sources for official publications of laws in the indigenous languages, and suspect this may be due to the application of "custom and usage" in their areas. But the focus is entirely different, in Mexico this is about preserving indigenous culture, in the US its about maintaining one transplanted culture over others.

[dilligras]

Quote by: rmnunez The Mexican government recently created a National Commission for Indigenous Affairs. There are up to 12 million surviving indigenous Mexicans and about half speak any of 62 identified native tongues. A consensuated phonetic transliteration using the Spanish alphabet has been developed and there are publications. The Nezahualcoyotl Prize in Indigenous Letters fosters indigenous literature and a constant effort to decypher surviving manuscripts from precolumbian cultures is underway. Nahuatl is taught in universities and elementary education is provided in native tongue for the indigenous. I can't find sources for official publications of laws in the indigenous languages, and suspect this may be due to the application of "custom and usage" in their areas. But the focus is entirely different, in Mexico this is about preserving indigenous culture, in the US its about maintaining one transplanted culture over others.

Let's not compare apples to oranges, shall we?

First, no one said anything about providing access to govt. documents for indigenous peoples here in the US, but rather it is about doing so for foreign nationals who have no right to even be in the country.

As for your calling American culture, "transplanted", I would point out that it is no more so than that of Mexico, Canada, or any other country in the Western Hemisphere that was settled by European pioneers with technological superiority over the native populations.

So your blatant attempt to obfuscate the issue by the simple expedient of comparing your country's benign attitude toward it's indigenous peoples (which are only very recent, historically speaking) to my country's treatment toward foreigners is entirely disengenuous, not to mention pitifully fallacious.

Politically correct dumbasses and envious foreigners intent on subverting America's interests as well as her very sovereignty are fond of pointing out that America is a country of immigrants (so why object to twenty million more?), ignoring completely the fact that the same may be said of nearly every other country on the planet, INCLUDING MEXICO... and that we are (again) not talking about immigrants, but rather illegal aliens who invade only for money, rather than any desire to become citizens of a newly adopted homeland.

Ring up a "no sale", pilgrim.


As you were.

[rmnunez]

That wasn't the idea, I was asked whether the Mexican government published in other languages, apparently it does, but just not the laws and regulations since these are adopted by the natives through custom and usage.

Should the need to accomodate or an interest in preserving a language have anything to do with the character and condition of the language's users? In Mexico the government's policy reflects an appreciation of the cultural value the preserved languages have. Spanish should be preserved in the US for its substantial literary accomplishments.

In addition to the cultural appreciation side, there is the practicality issue. Publishing laws and regulations in a foreign language serves a practical purpose, the need to communicate the rules to those affected. Though the subjects could be forced to read in English instead, its easier and cheaper to just translate the stuff.

[dilligras]

Quote by: rmnunez That wasn't the idea, I was asked whether the Mexican government published in other languages, apparently it does, but just not the laws and regulations since these are adopted by the natives through custom and usage. Should the need to accomodate or an interest in preserving a language have anything to do with the character and condition of the language's users? In Mexico the government's policy reflects an appreciation of the cultural value the preserved languages have. Spanish should be preserved in the US for its substantial literary accomplishments.

Again, you're just being disengenuous. You know very well that my question was a reaction to the idea that the US needed to provide FOREIGN language documents for ILLEGAL alien invaders, not native indigenous languages. Which makes your response, well.... unresponsive.

Ignoring for a moment that government documents are not the best way to preserve a language, Spanish is in no danger of planet-wide extinction-- so your contention that it needs to be preserved in an English speaking country is entirely specious, self-serving, and ludicrous beyond reason. Following your logic, it would be just as reasonable to expect China to print all their government documents in Spanish, as well.

Again, no sale.

In addition to the cultural appreciation side, there is the practicality issue. Publishing laws and regulations in a foreign language serves a practical purpose, the need to communicate the rules to those affected. Though the subjects could be forced to read in English instead, its easier and cheaper to just translate the stuff.

Horsehockey! Practicality must, by necessity, include rational economic policy. No one forced anyone speaking only a foreign language to even COME HERE, so if they do, the onus is on THEM to adust to their new surroundings.... not to mention that the very illegality of their presence here makes your suggestion an insult to one's intelligence.

As one who qualifies for a "senior coffee" (free) at the local Whataburger, I can assure you that I have had my intelligence insulted way too often, lo, these many years, and so feel compelled to request from you a wee bit more consideration of my sensibilities than you have heretofore manifested in this exchange. Perhaps a review of the fallicies of argument is in order, n'est-il pas?


As you were.

[rmnunez]

I am left as I was, no disputing its cheaper to print driver's license requirements in Spanish than deal with the accidents resulting from inability to understand the instructions. The onus is on them, but even so, to facilitate the process and reduce risk, its available in Spanish Vietnamese, Korean and other foreign languages.

I don't think you grasp the cultural appreciation dimension at all. Its not about the status of the affected population, its about doubling the artistic cultural resources of the united statian citizenry. And there are hardly any cultural differences; Salsa (the dance and the sauce), soccer (instead of football), Catholicism (rather than Protestantism), plus the language which sustains a wealth of literature. Why limit Spanish use, should English be the "official" language in the US, what is the advantage? Does it save money? Is the government of the US responsible for preserving one culture over another?

I don't think English should be the "official" language of the US, it should be such in Britain where the English come from. There is no advantage to making English officially more important, and there are drawbacks as this could preclude translation of the text. think it is more costly not to publish in the language more easily read or understood by the user. Hitler's government was big into cultural preservation (and suppression).