Illegal Immigration: a fact-based cost/benefit analysis

[Montag]

I look at illegal immigration from the point of view of a high school student. I do think that illegal immigration is wrong, but I also think it is being overrated. I think that politics of fear is the main reason for the debate over immigrants. For a person to mover from his or her home to another conditions must be bad. Currently if I were a mexican I might do the same. It was the same for the Chinese in the 1800's, and the Irish before them. Everyone is afraid of losing their job, especially to a foreign person. For me they could be taking positions that I could have at colleges, but what happens, happens. There will always be illegal immigration. When this fear of Mexican "invasion" dies something else will take its place. What happens once will happen again.

[lmao m8]

i found this typed up on my computer. its pretty well writtin!!!!!

Thesis: Illegal Immigrants should not be deported because they work for minimum wage, take unwanted jobs, and contribute in paying taxes and fees.
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Basic Information: (estimates)
Numbers
7.8 million undocumented workers in the U.S;
- 4.5 million are from Mexico
- 3.3 million are of other nationalities.
Percents
- 60 percent are Mexican
- 20 percent are from Central America
- 20 percent from all other origins

Main Points:

Working for minimum wage:
An American family makes 70 percent more than an undocumented family.
Illegal immigrants just want money; minimum wage in America is enough compared to what they got back in their home country, which is why they came to America in the first place.

Taking unwanted jobs:
50% Farm Laborers
25% Workers in Meat + Poultry Industry
24% Dishwashers
27% Dry-wall + Ceiling tile installers
- Labor Dept. Survey

Many construction jobs that Americans don’t want are taken by illegal aliens.

Contributing in paying TAXES and FEES:
IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers. ITINs are given regardless of immigration status.
Undocumented immigrants paid $547 million in Illinois state tax while the national aggregate contribution equaled $7 billion.
Undocumented immigrants contribute $2.7 billion to Social Security and $168 million to unemployment insurance taxes.
They cost the state of S. Carolina $1.16 billion in services, such as public health services and education, but they pay $1.58 billion every year in taxes and fees, according to the report, released Thursday. That's a net profit to the state of $420 million.
The report says the absence of the illegal immigrants would decrease the Texas gross state product by $17.7 billion a year.

Additional Points:
+ It’s America’s fault in the first place for encouraging illegal immigration:
Ex. A fast-food restaurant in Kansas didn’t pay an undocumented worker what he earned. The court said that since he was an illegal immigrant, it’s okay to underpay him.
- If we let restaurants make undocumented workers work and not pay them, then America is encouraging restaurant owners to hire illegal immigrants because they can treat them horribly and not pay them. Basically, this encourages illegal immigrants to come from their country to America because they will be hired no matter what.

Drivers Licenses:
+ America should allow illegal immigrants to have driver licenses because it will keep them away from fake licenses, and they will be monitored and insured.
Immigrants will drive anyway. If they have driver's licenses they ill be tested and monitored more accurately.
According to an AAA Foundation study on traffic safety, unlicensed drivers are five times more likely to be in fatal crashes than drivers with valid licenses.
Other studies show that those who are denied licenses often seek forged documents, leading to identity theft and other problems in society.
According to StateAction, driver’s license restrictions have not deterred illegal immigration. Nor have they encouraged existing immigrants to return to their homelands.

[Montag]

I like what you have written and will not disagree with the facts. I think that you are correct, but still government regulation is needed. I am a democrat, but I do think that president Bush was right in allowing the process of citizenship easier for immigrants to achieve, even in the face of opposition. But I also think that it was over kill to authorize a wall across Mexico. But that is just my opinion not nessicarily every ones.

[rmnunez]

Its not clear how much of a burden the undocumented are, we really can't be sure how many there are, they are indistinguishable from other immigrants when they make use of anything that would make them a burden.

If we go by the use of public services the lower class has, we'd come up with a higher burden than is likely in a community which is often unaware any service is available and more concerned with avoiding detection if asked to identify himself when seeking any services.

Once undocumenteds are legalized, they may have access to some public services, though this may argue against his bid for improvements in residency status. Being a ward of the state is grounds for deportation, the likelyhood of becoming one an absolute bar to admission.

[brien]

It was the same for the Chinese in the 1800's, and the Irish before them

.

These immigrants came to the US through legal channels.

There will always be illegal immigration

Not in the numbers we have today.

[brien]

Drivers Licenses: + America should allow illegal immigrants to have driver licenses because it will keep them away from fake licenses, and they will be monitored and insured. Immigrants will drive anyway. If they have driver's licenses they ill be tested and monitored more accurately.

they will be monitored and insured.

This is absurd. They aren't "monitored" now. The authorities don't report illegals to ICE when they stop them for traffic violations now so what makes anyone think illegals could be held responsible for any serious law infractions. What makes you think they would carry mandatory insurance when they could merely disappear back into what Sen Kennedy calls "the shadows" after an accident that seriously hurts or kills someone?

Immigrants will drive anyway

They mean illegal immigrants. And if they will "drive anyway" without the proper documentation, they should be prosecuted by the law like any citizen would be when driving w/o a license or insurance.

Why don't we all "just drive anyway"? Screw the law. Why do we need traffic enforcement when we all can just drive anyway? Great logic there.:rolleyes:

If they have driver's licenses they will be tested and monitored more accurately.

Oh sure, like they are monitored now? Right. :rolleyes:

[rmnunez]

brien, you need to learn a bit more of the subject, immigration was never illegal prior to the mid fifties, regardless of how you got there. During the Cold War illegal immigration was encouraged when from Soviet satellites. Even nowadays, if a Cuban illicitly sets off on a raft for Florida and manages to get ashore, eligibility for citizenship results automatically.

[Montag]

This is all true. There was no such thing as "illegal" immigration before the fifties, but does that mean it did not occur? Illegal immigration is illegal immigration weather you call it that or not. I will not support illegal immigration, but I will support the people that traveled across desserts, and a vast empty space to reach America. Once again I view everything from the view of an American. I do not get the whole story. That is part of why I joined this debate, so that I could learn more about the views of other people. I am in high school, but I try to view the world as a whole. People fear what they do not know. People do not know about Mexicans, vor illegal immigration, therefore they fear those who are immigrants. I maintain it wqas the same for the Chinese, Irish, Germans, and any other immigrant across history. That is my opinion.

[Century 25]

This was a fwd I received over weekend.. I thought this was well written too.. of course.. the problem is much worse at this date ..nearly 3 years later..

CHILLING COSTS OF ILLEGAL ALIEN INFLUX


By Frosty Wooldridge
November 9, 2004
NewsWithViews.com

In 2003, according to the Arizona Department of Motor Vehicles, 57,600 cars were stolen in Phoenix. It is now the car-jacking capital of the world. Most were SUV’s and pickup trucks. At a conservative average of $15,000.00 per vehicle, owner losses exceeded $864 million. Insurance companies in the state suffered incredible claims from policyholders.

Worse, how would you like to walk out of your home or business to see your car gone? Imagine the hassle, violation of your hard work and disrespect for your well being.

Where did those vehicles go? Who stole them? Take a guess. Arizona is the temporary home of 500,000 illegal aliens. They cost Arizona taxpayers over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons. Illegals use those vehicles for smuggling more people and drugs from around the world into our country. When the vehicles are recovered, they are smashed-up wrecks in the desert. If not found, they have new owners south of the border as thieves drive the cars through the desert and into Mexico as easily as you drive your kids to soccer practice. THAT’s how porous our borders are!

The chilling costs of illegal migration reach like an octopus into every aspect of our lives. Illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars last year according to Harvard Professor George Borjas. College and high school kids cannot find a summer job in yard care, landscape, fast food or service jobs. Why? Illegal aliens work them at a third the wage and often, under the table.

Not only do your kids not have jobs; you’re paying taxes for illegal aliens who are not paying taxes.

Annually, 75 percent of drugs arrive from Mexico at a net cost of $120 billion hard currency that leaves our country for good. In addition, our tax dollars pay $80 billion for the War on Drugs each year. It is a war that hasn’t been won in the past 30 years and drugs are as available today to your teenager as they were in 1970.

When an alien criminal gets caught for rape, murder or drug distribution, you pay $1.6 billion annually in prison costs to house, feed and clothe those filling 30 percent of our federal and state prisons—not to mention TV, movies, weight rooms and other entertainment—they enjoy while being incarcerated.

Is your blood boiling at this point? How about illegal alien anchor babies? Over 300,000 women annually arrive pregnant and drop them on U.S. soil. You pay food, housing, medical and schooling for them to age 18 PLUS their mother. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, average annual cost per child K-12 is $7,161.00 and exceeds $109 billion annually per cycle of anchor babies. That’s your money given out to 300,000 moms and their kids annually and all they did was get pregnant and birth that child on U.S. soil.

If you haven’t had a heart attack by now, you’ll need Tums after this figure. The average head of household illegal alien costs you $2,700.00 in welfare money over and above any taxes he or she pays in their meager paying jobs. With 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in the USA, that figures exceeds $20 billion of your tax dollars. (Source: Center for Immigration Studies, August 2004)

How about the $56 billion in pure cash illegal migrants sent to their home countries last year and every year? That’s after their kids enjoyed free education, free lunches and free medical care paid for by you. Mexico receives $15 billion annually from its worker drones. No wonder Vicente Fox sent us 9.2 million illegal alien Mexicans so far.

The lifetime net fiscal drain—taxes paid minus services used—for an adult immigrant is $55,200.00 according to Carrying Capacity Network. Who makes that money up? You do! Your work! Your taxes!

With a minimum of 15 million illegal aliens in our country, these figures are the tip of the iceberg. Average bilingual education is $1,200.00 per illegal alien student. Get this! We educate 1.1 million illegal alien children each year. Do the math! Ready for another anvil dropped on your toe fact? You paid $27 billion to provide forms, ballots, interpreters and brochures for languages other than English in 2003.

An estimated one-third to one-half illegal aliens work off the books. It costs $200 million to provide for emergency health care for illegal aliens in the Border States annually. California with over three million illegals paid $79 million, BUT four of their major LA hospitals bankrupted and shut their doors in 2004. Texas with 1.5 million illegal aliens paid $74 million in hospital care. Who is Texas? You, the taxpayer, that’s who! Because you, in your state, pay commensurate medical care according to your illegal alien population. Georgia ran a $63 million deficit for 64,000 unpaid doctor visits to their Grady Health Care system in 2002. In the same year, Georgia taxpayers paid $27 million for 11,188 anchor baby hospital births. Georgia taxpayers paid a whopping $242 million for educating illegal alien kids in 2003. What is it in your state?

What are the consequences? One in two adult African-Americans in New York is unemployed. African-American children’s poverty grew by 50 percent since 1999. Why? Their dads can’t find work.

It costs you, the taxpayer, $68 billion a year JUST to pay for the resettlement of legal immigrants.

Fellow Americans, we are $7.384 trillion in debt as of November 1, 2004. This year’s budget deficit exceeds $413 billion. Our trade deficit stands at $400 billion. Our consumer debt exceeds $2 trillion and our average credit card carries an $8,000.00 balance. Our U.S. government borrows $1.6 billion daily from foreign banks, just to stay afloat. Have you ever heard of the Titanic? We are taking on heavy immigration numbers while we’re being financially bled to death. Are we in trouble or what?

Who brings this fiscal nightmare into America? Take a guess. The majority of your Congress! President George W. Bush himself! Tom Ridge, who won’t guard our borders from this invasion, but gets his orders from Bush! Illegals are arriving at over 4,000 per night according to Time Magazine, September 12, 2004, "Who Left the Door Open?" I quote, "That total of illegal aliens flooding into the United States this year will total three million—enough to fill 22,000 737 Boeing airliners, or 60 flights every day for a year." Don’t you think with that many illegals crossing nightly that anyone with a brain would send troops to our border to protect from an invasion? Since we just re-elected the same Congress and president, you can expect more of the same.

You can count on your corporations devouring cheap labor as they send you to the unemployment lines. Additionally, they pay PAC groups to keep senators and congressmen in their back pocket. How do I know? Only 22 companies in 2003 were taken to court for hiring illegal aliens. None went to jail. However, it’s a $10,000.00 fine per illegal alien hired and up to five years in prison. You would think that would deter corporations. Not when they’ve bought off enforcement!

Who else figures in this grand scheme? Your governors and mayors who provide sanctuary laws for illegal aliens! Mayor Bloomberg of New York City.

Governor Baldacci of Maine! Governor Bill Owens of Colorado! Mayor Hickenlooper of Denver! Mayor of Los Angeles! Mayor of San Francisco! Mayor of Chicago! Mayor of Miami! How do I know? All those cities and dozens more give sanctuary to illegal aliens with Special Order 40.

Illegals remain in our country with exemption from arrest—yet, they are federal criminals!

Can you blame millions of desperate people for coming illegally to America? Hardly! Do you think they will stop coming since the world adds 80 million annually of poor, hopeless people from war torn, ravaged and impoverished Third World countries?

Not a chance! This is the land of free milk and honey. As long as our leaders allow the invasion and not enough Americans speak up, you can expect 12 million more illegal aliens in the next four years. Who pays for this invasion of your country? You do!

As a final note, if you’re as sick of this nation-destroying dilemma as I am, go to my web site. I’ll send you an action letter with 17 effective points to change our nation’s suicidal course. Whatever your talent, you will become a part of this movement to save our country from this disaster being brought to us by our leaders. You may send that action email out to your friends and they can send it to their friends. As Americans we must link arms, hearts and minds to take action to preserve our country and force our leaders to stop this illegal immigration madness. It’s called a ‘consciousness shift’ and it’s going to take every one of us. That means everything you do, COUNTS!

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez There is an obvious demand not met by the current immigration quotas, you see it in estimates of 10 times as many undocumenteds working as visas are available for them. But its not the foreign demand for visas that matters, its the jobs available to undocumenteds, and it seems like generally they don't have a problem finding work.

Yeah, sure, and every estimate that we need more cheap labor comes from someone that directly benefits from it. And of course they don't have a problem finding work, when a person will work for next to nothing it's easy to find a job.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Century 25 As long as our leaders allow the invasion and not enough Americans speak up, you can expect 12 million more illegal aliens in the next four years. Who pays for this invasion of your country? You do!

Americans HAVE spoken up. Look at the polls:

Federation for American Immigration Reform: Public Opinion Polls on Immigration

Numbers USA

Our "leaders" ignore the citizens and continue to sell us out to corporate interests.

[rmnunez]

Bush in a speech today:

“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill”

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez Bush in a speech today:

And if you want to bullshit them, tell them it isn't.

[johnwk]

Quote by: Zeebadee Americans HAVE spoken up. Look at the polls: Federation for American Immigration Reform: Public Opinion Polls on Immigration Numbers USA Our "leaders" ignore the citizens and continue to sell us out to corporate interests.

Atlantan quarantined with deadly TB strain

Why worry about this one individual when we have 10-20 million illegal aliens who have immigrated to the united States but have avoided being screened for TB which is one of the steps in legal immigration?

The very purpose of Congress being granted power to “establish a uniform rule of naturalization“, is to enact laws beneficial for America’s public interests, not the interests of Mexico’s government, its illegal aliens or international corporate giants.

Some of the diseases carried into our country by illegal aliens who would be granted amnesty under (S. 1348 )are Tuberculosis, hepatitis, dengue fever, chagas, Hansen's disease (leprosy), not to mention an influx of AIDS!

For background information see: U.S. immigrants pose TB threat

Also see: Is CDC covering up skyrocketing TB rate?


One thing is certain: Amnesty (S. 1348 ) is a threat to the general welfare of the United States!


Congress has become America’s most formidable domestic enemy and is more concerned with appeasing Mexico’s government, its illegal aliens and international corporate giants, than enacting law to protect America’s borders and the health and safety of the American people!


Regards,

JWK

[brien]

Quote by: rmnunez brien, you need to learn a bit more of the subject, immigration was never illegal prior to the mid fifties, regardless of how you got there. During the Cold War illegal immigration was encouraged when from Soviet satellites. Even nowadays, if a Cuban illicitly sets off on a raft for Florida and manages to get ashore, eligibility for citizenship results automatically.

Hmmmmm. First you state that "illegal immigration wasn't illegal prior to the mid fifties" but then you go on to say that " During the Cold War illegal immigration was encouraged when from Soviet satellites." So, in one sentence you say illegal immigration wasn't illegal and in the very next sentence you say illegal immigration was legal. Sounds to me like you are the one who is a bit confused but I understand what you are trying to write here.

The truth of the matter is there has always been some type of law regarding citizenship in the US since the Naturalization Act of 1790

History of Migration and Immigration Laws in the United States

"The Naturalization Act of 1790 passed by Congress employed explicitly racial criteria limiting citizenship to ëfree white personsí; after this act was successfully challenged on behalf of blacks after the Civil War, ëAsian immigrants became the most significant ëotherí in terms of citizenship eligibilityí (Lesser, 85)" (Wong 5).

We can view this problem of illegal immigration either in its entirety, or in the components. One component being the act of immigration, legal or illegal. Another component being eventual citizenship that is the end result of immigration. I don't think one can seperate the two with regard to the proposals being offered in DC today.

Now to the Cold war. The Cold War began when Germany was divided into two countries during the settlement of WWII in 1945, not in the mid fifties.

History of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Cold War emerged out of a conflict between Stalin and U.S. President Harry Truman over the future of Eastern Europe during the Potsdam Conference in the summer of 1945. Russia had suffered three devastating Western onslaughts in the previous 150 years during the Napoleonic Wars, the First World War, and the Second World War, and Stalin's goal was to establish a buffer zone of states between Germany and the Soviet Union. Truman charged that Stalin had betrayed the Yalta agreement. With Eastern Europe under Red Army occupation, Stalin was also biding his time, as his own atomic bomb project was steadily and secretly progressing.

It was only in 1952 that the US began to pass these laws:

History of Migration and Immigration Laws in the United States

The McCarran-Walter Act establishes the basic laws of U.S. citizenship and immigration. This act, also known as the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, has undergone several changes since its adoption. Originally, the law admitted only a certain number of immigrants of each nationality. But a law passed by Congress in 1965 gave preference to immigrants with skills needed in the United States and to close relatives of U.S. citizens. A 1990 law continued these preferences. Aliens must be admitted as legal immigrants to get U.S. citizenship. People who flee to the United States after being officially certified as refugees may receive immigrant status" (World Book Encyclopedia)Naturalization Act (1790)

So in one respect you are correct that specfic "immigration laws" were enacted in 1952, but in the other aspect of citizenship and naturalization of immigrants, you are incorrect as evidenced by the Naturalization Act of 1790. This business of picking and choosing aspects of the issue of immigration into the US certainly favors your point of view, but it does nothing to understand the entire problem of immigration as we see it today. Perhaps you also need to learn a bit more on the subject as well. :)

[brien]

Quote by: rmnunez Bush in a speech today:

“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill”

Bush is a f*cking liar and a fraud. His administration has done NOTHING to address the problem of illegal immigration during his tenure as President. He refuses to ENFORCE the immigration laws on the books now, so what makes reasonable Americans think he will enforce the laws proposed in the current bill in the Senate? Bush, and his immigration policy, just like his Iraq policy, is a fake, a fraud, a phony, and a sham.

[brien]

Here is a website blog of citizens that chronicles all of the problems associated with illegal immigration. These are real people, not Washington DC elites, who are experiencing the real problems as a result of illegal immigration.

http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/...l_immigration/

[rmnunez]

We can view this problem of illegal immigration either in its entirety, or in the components. One component being the act of immigration, legal or illegal. Another component being eventual citizenship that is the end result of immigration. I don't think one can seperate the two with regard to the proposals being offered in DC today.

I think these are rather distinct features and not as intertwined as some may think. I guess most united statians think all immigrants want to become US citizens, but the INS data suggests some immigrants are more interested in this than others and that Hispanic immigrants are the least likely to pursue citizenship. I've met many undocumenteds in California and New York who despite being in the US for decades and eligibility by marriage, time there, relatives who are citizens and other developments -have not become citizens. This is attractive to the degree it facilitates living there, immigrants opt for citizenship not because they want to be citizens rather to avoid the hassles of being foreign in the US.

There is no contradiction in maintaining illegal immigration was not in issue until the mid fifties and that the US encouraged illigal immigration during the Cold War. This is because the "illegal" part of the immigration being encouraged by the US related to how the immigrant fled and got to the US. Its illegal (in Cuba for example) to migrate to the US, thus the US is encouraging illegal immigration, but it certainly isn't illegal to flee Cuba under US law.

[brien]

I guess most united statians think all immigrants want to become US citizens,

Once agin, this misses the mark because it is not a matter of whether they "want" to become citizens, it is a matter that they will have the right to become citizens.

As far as your example of Cuba, it is only because the US Administrations have had a "boner" for Castro that we allow Cubans "political asylum." It has nothing to do with immigration laws but more to do with Foreign Policy..

The fact remains that millions and millions of people have come to the US illegally from Mexico alone. This is most of the problem now. If the same were true for Mexico, what would Mexico do?

the US is encouraging illegal immigration,

Agreed, and this is what needs to cease immediately.

[rmnunez]

Calderon, in an animated exchange with Prodi during the Mexican’s audience with the Pope, said the US ought to beter focus its border enforcement on the drug smugglers than on migrant workers. Sistema e-once noticias Internet

The Pontiff seemed to agree.