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| View Poll Results: Does illegal immigration produce a positive or negative net value for the US? | |||
| Positive | | 15 | 36.59% |
| Negative | | 26 | 63.41% |
| Voters: 41. You may not vote | |||
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| | Thread Tools |
| | #41 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799 | Quote:
And none of those figures take into account what it's costing taxpayers to provide unemployment and welfare payments to the U.S. workers that are being displaced by the illegals. In addition, the study you quoted is for a period of 300 years, hardly an accurate estimate. Take a drive through some of the bedroom communities around the SF bay area. You can't find a parking place on many of the suburban streets at night. Why? Simple, there are 3 or 4 families living in a lot of the houses, garages have been converted into bedrooms, as have living rooms. Individual families simply aren't paid enough to buy their own houses. Too many cars, no garages. This is raising our standard of living? This is good for us? I'm not going to bother to make any serious attempt to present opposition posts to illegal immigration, it's going to continue until the economic incentive to come here and work has been neutralized. Does anyone really think that this is going to happen because economic conditions and job opportunities in Mexico are going to catch up to ours?? We're already well on the way to the same level of graft and corruption that's endemic in Mexico. Only when this country descends into the same cesspool they are running north from will they stop coming. The average citizen that's picking up the tab for this unrestricted immigration has no power to stop it. Money is what puts politicians in office, and that money is coming from those that directly benefit from the illegals. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen | |
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| | #42 (permalink) (top) | |
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | Quote:
$10bn/0.30 = $30bn. Seems about right to me. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 | |
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| | #43 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | Immigrants do it more often Durex conducted a sexual wellbeing survey of 26 thousand people in 26 countries to find: Quote:
Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff | |
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| | #44 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799 | Quote:
"Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen | |
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| | #45 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | It has a lot to do with the matter at hand, particularly for the demographic impact in the US. One of the issues is whether the US economy can grow and remain vibrant without immigrants. CEMEX commissioned a study which forecast 77 million united statians would reach retirement and leave work between 2000 and 2010, unless nearly 8 million united statians were born each year they couldn't cover the vacancies, forget about any jobs from a growing economy. But there are people being born in the US, problem is they are usually Mexicans. Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff |
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| | #46 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | Can you post the source pls? I'd like to check it out. If it's true, sounds like we need more immigration whether it's legal or not. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 |
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| | #47 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | I'll see if I can find a link, I translated the study for a developer refering to it to promote investment in retirement communities and got stuck when I came across the term "active adults" (they forecasted growing demand for residential communities for US retirees). This CEMEX-commissioned study was extensively debated and is cited (CEMEX is a tremendously successful Mexican cement multinational). Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff |
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| | #48 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | Oakland will refuse to cooperate with federal thugs pursuing suspected undocumenteds: Quote:
Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff | |
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| | #49 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | Mexico's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in purchasing power parity (PPP) was estimated at $1.134 trillion in 2006, and $741.5 billion in nominal exchange rates. As such, its standard of living, as measured in GDP in PPP per capita was of $10,600. The World Bank reported that the country's Gross National Income and income per capita in nominal market exchange rates were the highest in Latin America, at $753.394 billion, and $7,310 respectively, and as such, Mexico is now firmly established as an upper middle-income country. After the slowdown of 2001 the country has recovered and has grown 4.2, 3.0 and 4.8 percent in 2004, 2005 and 2006, even though it is considered to be well below Mexico's potential growth. Unemployment in Mexico: <ul>2001: 2.76% <li>2002: 2.98% <li>2003: 3.41% <li>2004: 3.92% <li>2005: 3.58% <li>2006: 3.6% <li>2007: 4.01% </ul> There are lots of things the Mexican government needs to do to improve the economy: Tax collections need to be substantially improved as a huge irregular “off the books” economy thrives without any sort of regulation; major infrastructural investment, especially in the energy sector is needed, but there are constraints which impede foreign participation; the huge bureaucracy built up over 70 years of single-party institutional control needs to be reduced and processes streamlined, and naturally this is resisted. But overall the economy is doing well and the government tackling these problems. There is an active effort to erradicate corruption and without the guaranteed immunity for functionaries due to political connections (as it was before) this is happening. There have been substantial improvements in simplifying procedures to open a business and all sorts of regulatory agencies are now much more closely monitored. Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff |
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| | #50 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Posts: 64 | I dont know about the stats for the entire country but in California a third of those in jail are illegal aliens. Illegal Immigration is not helping, no matter how you try and spin it. Crime rates go up, drug trafficking etc. They come here with no health insurance and go to the ER whenever they get sick and the American taxpayer picks up the tab. They sponge off of the welfare system which is giving out enough money as it is. The majority of the them are unskilled workers. The American taxpayer has to pay for their bilingual education. We are a nation of citizens, not of businesses, and the businesses are the ones who profit from the exploitation of the illegal immigrants who come here, not the American citizens. I for one do not advocate the exploitation of a race of people, do you? And that is not an appeal to emotion, it is a fact that they are being exploited. And I would to see how many millions of dollars the illegal immigrants are sending back to their families in Mexico. |
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| | #51 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772 | I wouldn't be so sure about that tmay, it seems patients admitted in united statian hospitals are identified, provide addresses and other data. Undocumenteds would have a hard time with this since their presence in the US is unlawful and they'd try and keep it secret. There are lots of stories from former immigrant workers who regained consciousness after some accident on the job to find themselves chained to their hospital cots pending deportation. The impression I get is that the US deports them to save money on worker's compensation. Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile verbum. Raúl M. Núñez Sheriff |
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| | #52 (permalink) (top) | |
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | tmay: welcome to Volconvo! You raise valid concerns, but did you check out the original post? Even accounting for the added cost in welfare, health care, law enforcement, penal system Americans pay for illegal immigrants, their presence in the US yields a net financial benefit of $10bn. Thus, the economic aspect of your argument, while compelling, does not hold up to financial analysis. As for this statement Quote:
The data simply doesn't support the view that more illegals = more crime. fushigi "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 | |
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| | #53 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799 | Did you read anything BUT the original post? Your link concerns FEDERAL costs, as the title clearly states. There are very high state costs associated with illegal immigration that you choose to ignore. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen |
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| | #55 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799 | "llegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday. " I had posted this earlier, but that link seems to be bad now. Here it is: Illegal aliens cost California billions - The Washington Times: Nation/Politics - December 07, 2004 "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen |
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| | #56 (permalink) (top) | ||
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | You're right, Zee--I hadn't considered that. Furthermore, consider this: Quote:
There is this to consider, however: Quote:
However, what about workers' spending? Does it make up for the $9bn in state taxpayer losses? More on that later. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 Last edited by fushigi; Apr 28, 2007 at 11:42 pm. | ||
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| | #57 (permalink) (top) | |
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | Well, here's a report from North Carolina, for one: Quote:
"What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 | |
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| | #58 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Location: Beijing Posts: 2,340 | OK back to California. Let's just talk Mexico first. Mexicans send $15bn in wages to Mexico. How much of their wages are spent in California? Well, considering that Latin Americans immigrants in the US earn $500bn a year, and $45bn (9%) of that is sent home. Now, this figure of Latin American immigrants includes citizens, many of whom probably don't send ANY money overseas (as they've already brought their family to live with them in the US). So let's be generous and say illegals send a 5x greater portion of their wages--45%--home in comparison with all Latin Americans in the US. That would mean illegals in California are NOT sending $15bn/45% = $33bn home. That money's staying in the economy, and it's still more than 4x the total state losses from services provided for illegals. And that's just Mexicans. "What truth endures beneath the flaming stream?" -- A Volcano, Bartolome de Las Casas, Inferno de Marsaya, 1536 |
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| | #59 (permalink) (top) | |
| Igneous Magma Location: Southwest desert - Valley of the Sun Posts: 636 | tmay563 states: Quote:
..yes.. very well said.. illegal aliens are here for one reason: Cheap labor... and the costs due to business laissez-faire attitude.. are deferred to.. yup.. all of us citizens... Now that so many of our citizens are aware of the dirt being done to them.. it is.. too late.. for there is no avenue open to us that could reverse the mortal damage.. and the best of "treatments" would only slow our decline into a 2nd class country.. | |
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| | #60 (permalink) (top) | |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799 | Quote:
This study appears to be deliberately stacking the deck by making phony comparisons. For example, it costs the state $7138 per pupil for education. For that alone to average $102 per person would mean that only about 1 person in 70 would be a student. Something is wrong with this "report". "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen | |
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