Pat Tillman killed by Americans

[Suburbanite]

CNN
"U.S. Army Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former professional football player killed last month in Afghanistan, was probably killed by gunfire from his own unit during an intense firefight, the U.S. Army said Saturday."

What does everyone think about this?

[Compugasm]

I think it's less likely, but accidents happen. I also heard he was killed in a vehical accident, or maybe I was thinking of someone else... Anyway, he died serving, and a better man than me.

[jcgadfly]

Compugasm,

In the most recent military actions in which America has been involved, more soldiers were killed by friendly fire than by the enemy. Doesn't seem less likely to me.

Tillman was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He died because somebody got jumpy. It's a shame.

[Suburbanite]

That sounds very fishy to me.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Suburbanite, That sounds very fishy to me.

I'm not sure about that. Considering the negative publicity, especially since Tillman has gotten all the media attention it seems doubtful the military would admit it if it weren't true.

Unfortunately, "friendly" fire is a fact of war, and I have been hearing these stories since Viet Nam. What I DO find fishy, however, is that it happens with any frequency at all, considering we are constantly sold on the idea that our military is the best equipped and best trained in the world.

I guess it goes to show that when you have a war, there is nothing like a uniform or a flag to shoot at! When you send these guys to a place where Abdul Q. Public is an innocent shopkeeper but Mustafa Doe next door wants to blow your head off, you can't blame them for getting a bit antsy and a bit too quick on the trigger.

[cheesemage]

Its a fact of war, and being an ex football player doesn't diminish that fact.

[jesse]

Americans are well known for being 'trigger happy' and for their 'friendly fire'

In Vietnam the American squads were more likely to be ambushed, rather then ambush while some countries (ie Australia) where being the ambushee the majority of the time (Can't remember the percentage from Grade 10 History bout round 75+% or something).

Since the American Army is such big and powerfull I think their soldiers should be trained better.

Yes, it sounds like I'm stereotyping blah blah, but it's known that America is deadly to everyone, including itself.

I also think that this soldier being talked about so much diminish's the reputation (Couldn't think of another word) of the [i]average[/u] soldier. Isn't he being just a bit overrated.

PS. I love english

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by jesse, Americans are well known for being 'trigger happy' and for their 'friendly fire' I also think that this soldier being talked about so much diminish's the reputation (Couldn't think of another word) of the [i]average[/u] soldier. Isn't he being just a bit overrated. PS. I love english

Unfortunately, we have a "celebrity" mentality in the U.S. that requires that we make a bigger deal out of some people than others for the very same thing. Of course, Tillman deserves to be honored for his sacrifice but Pfc Joe Average deserves just as much. It's sad that these guys get overlooked as so much cannon fodder when their lives are worth every bit as much as Tillman's, yours or mine.

Originally posted by Suburbanite, CNN "U.S. Army Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former professional football player killed last month in Afghanistan, was probably killed by gunfire from his own unit during an intense firefight, the U.S. Army said Saturday." What does everyone think about this?

Probably killed doesn't equal did kill.

[jcgadfly]

Originally posted by Truth,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Truth,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Suburbanite, CNN "U.S. Army Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former professional football player killed last month in Afghanistan, was probably killed by gunfire from his own unit during an intense firefight, the U.S. Army said Saturday." What does everyone think about this?

Probably killed doesn't equal did kill.[/b][/quote]

He's dead. There were no enemy forces in the area.

Kinda takes the "probably" out of it (unless you think another friendly unit took him out).

Oh, sorry, when I read there was an intense fire fight I assumed there was.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Suburbanite, CNN "U.S. Army Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former professional football player killed last month in Afghanistan, was probably killed by gunfire from his own unit during an intense firefight, the U.S. Army said Saturday." What does everyone think about this?

It's like a Greek tragedy. Millionare talent in the NFL takes a grunt job in a godforsaken wilderness and gets killed by the country he(miguidedly) was tryin' to defend. What's he got to show for it all? He didn't even believe in God, so there's not a lotta hope for heaven :( I'm unPC enough to say he was a clueless loser.

[jcgadfly]

Originally posted by Truth, Oh, sorry, when I read there was an intense fire fight I assumed there was.

Friendly Afghan mistakenly ID'd as a hostile was the story I heard. Tillman's unit fired and fire was returned. Tillman was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In case you haven't figured out, I rarely take the Army's word when it comes to details.

[bugsbunny04]

Friendly fire, isn't.

[giuliano]

for every US soldier killed by friendly fire, and there appears to be quite a no. of them, there's probably at least 10 native civilians.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by giuliano, for every US soldier killed by friendly fire, and there appears to be quite a no. of them, there's probably at least 10 native civilians.

I'm not debating anything here, but I have a question for anyone up on their history. What are the general numbers for "friendly fire" incidents in places where you have a difficult time telling the combatants from ordinary civilians, as compared to fighting where you are facing a recognizable, uniformed military? For example, the German or Japanese armies in WW2 as opposed to Vietnamese peasants and people in Afghanistan who for some baffling reason think it's important to hold onto their weding celebration traditions when there are warplanes overhead.

[giuliano]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, ...people in Afghanistan who for some baffling reason think it's important to hold onto their weding celebration traditions when there are warplanes overhead.

warplanes are all a part of the afghan tradition, they aren't the exception demanding extra care.

to address your main question, i doubt there are any such statistics. no one really knows whether civilian-clothed vietnamese killed by american troops were impartial, sympathetic or supportive of the viet-cong. it's just a case of kill or possibly be killed, better them than possibly us.

[bishop]

i'd say in iraq, we lose so few soldiers that it's probably pretty easy to say whether/not the death was caused by friendly fire.

vietnam was definitely a bit different. (makes me remember "we were soldiers".. the scene where our guys napalmed our own people was something...)

[giuliano]

there's 2 things here:
-friendly fire on our own troops and
-collateral damage against civilians

i was really adressing collateral damage.

[bishop]

supposedly the coalition isn't counting civilian deaths. i don't think we did in vietnam, but it was also so much harder to count - especially since we would indiscriminately napalm everything. i get the feeling that we are counting in iraq, but that's just a guess and nothing more.

there's always this site:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

dunno what the truth is, but i'm sure this is a closely held bit of information. for all the complaining people do about how the media is out to get bush, it's amazing how they never focus on civilian deaths. i suppose that would make them unpatriotic or something.