Pat Tillman killed by Americans

[dilligras]

"My kingdom for a horse!"

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: SaintLucifer Never forget that your great George Washington served the British Empire well. Oopsy. He turned coat. *LOL @ 'turned coat' I like that*. He became a coward too afraid to follow the orders of his British overlords. So many wars saving the world no doubt weakend our Empire. If not for us the world would be under the rule of other Empires. Perhaps we should have allowed the rest of you to be enslaved thus saving our Empire? Who knows? I see jealous rearing its ugly head amongst the Americans. A tiny island kingdom built the greatest Empire the world has ever seen. The USA has lost every war it has fought and remains within her own borders. LOL. Fear not. Your envy is understandable. The USA has lost wars to nothing states. The British Empire defeated SUPERPOWERS. The USA never faced a superpower in its short life. Remember that Cornwallis never surrendered to the Americans. He surrendered to the French. That must have been quite a slap in the face to your forces. Ouch. Such insolence! God love Cornwallis. Naturally he lost to a force 5 times the size of his own. The entire French Navy behind him in port. If not for the French the USA would probably be a part of Canada today. LOL. SaintLucifer The Dark Saint 'Better to rule in Heaven than to serve in Hell'

Umm...if I recall my world history correctly, the imperial days saw Spain controlling a much larger portion of the globe than Britain. Britain was a relative latecomer in the empire game and only managed to pick up the scraps of mainland Europe's conquests. All of this is, of course, irrelevant since after several embarrassing losses on their side, they lost their territories and were driven back to the islands. I mean, a ragtag group of farmers and malcontents drove them out of the Americas and an emaciated peasant got them thrown out of India simply by refusing to eat. South Africa was a joke.

As for saving the world and fighting world powers, I will have to assume that you were comatose when someone attempted to educate you about those two little world wars that happened last century. Something about the Nazis, the Japanese...as I recall, Britain was getting the crap bombed out of it. The US bailed the world out both wars.

The US has won several wars and extended its borders several times to ultimately encompass a huge swath of land from one ocean to the other. And unlike Britain, the US hasn't given any of it back. The French contribution to the Revolution was minimal. Historians argue that the war could have been won without them. They were too little, too late.

Now, I'm not a great fan of the US. As a matter of fact, I don't have a patriotic bone in my body. But I loathe historical inaccuracy.

[Matt W]

The US bailed the world out both wars.

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Now, before ANYONE spirals out of control at this, can we get back on-topic?

Do not respond to me within this thread. PM myself or Sean for more details.

[dilligras]

Uh oh........who woke 'im up?


Uhhhh......we were talkin' about friendly fire........couldn't you tell?:)


Now where was I.......oh yeah.

YO MAMA!

[phoenix_fire]

Why do you keep saying "your"? Did you miss the last bit?

[dilligras]

If history were a song, I'd say stick with the day job.

[dilligras]

Damn! ........and I thought we Texans were braggadocious...:)

[Protostar]

Quote by: Matt W Dear oh dear oh dear. Now, before ANYONE spirals out of control at this, can we get back on-topic? Do not respond to me within this thread. PM myself or Sean for more details.

I guess everyone missed Matt's post. BACK ON TOPIC!! The Revolutionary War/British Empire has NOTHING to do with Pat Tillman's death. That said has anyone heard about this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=1713847

[dilligras]

No doubt, just another fool to be used as a pawn in the evil designs of American hegemony.....:rolleyes:

[dilligras]

Perhaps technology will help mitigate fratricide occurrance.

'Jointness' a Key to Developing Military Capability American Forces Press Service | March 15, 2006 When U.S. forces first deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, the services had several different systems in place to track "blue," or friendly, forces. But those systems didn't "talk" to each other, leaving big gaps in a joint forces commander's ability to see the big picture. That's no longer the case. The Blue Force Tracker, developed quickly through a U.S. Joint Forces Command initiative, provides full situational awareness to battlefield commanders. The digital system uses a satellite network to provide detailed information on friendly and enemy units up to 5,000 miles away. That translates into better-coordinated operations and less risk of fratricide.

.

[Scribbler1]

Jointness?

[Plasma Snake[D]]

this is pretty whacked stuff no? Thinking that americans killed americans, its kinda like those conspiracy theories about 9/11.

[phoenix_fire]

Hey, some people on this board will swear by whatever it is they hold holy that those conspiracy theories are true, 100%, and that there is incontrovertible proof to which they alone are privy. What I want to know is: who cares? The fact that the government is hiding, aiding, and abetting an alien infiltration is far more important right now.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] this is pretty whacked stuff no? Thinking that americans killed americans, its kinda like those conspiracy theories about 9/11.

Fact is, since the Civil War, no one has been able to kill Americans as effectively as other Americans. Of course, that's only because no one kills anyone as good as we do, whether you atribute it to the hunting legacy of our pioneer forefathers, or just to better training and equipment.

More Americans died in the Civil War than have perished in all the conflicts since.

But that won't keep fools from their foolish enterprises, so someone will always try to knock the King from atop his mound of dirt.

I think it was Vonnegut who said, ".....and so it goes."

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] this is pretty whacked stuff no? Thinking that americans killed americans, its kinda like those conspiracy theories about 9/11.

How about the soldier who tossed the grenade in the tent full of his fellow soldiers. And look up "fragging". It tells you something when they have a term for it.

And for domestic slaughter, how about Timothy McVeigh? That was purely political. These are not conspiracy theories.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Scribbler1 And for domestic slaughter, how about Timothy McVeigh? That was purely political. These are not conspiracy theories.

Oh yeah?

Maybe.

Maybe not.

<<Thanks, scrib! I've been dying for an excuse to haul that one out.:)>>

[Scribbler1]

What I can never understand is why the government doesn't silence these guys. I'm not going back all those years and research the thing but I honestly don't rule ANYTHING out when it comes to the government. However, this doesn't mean I believe everything that comes along either.

And I still want to know where April Glaspie and Eugene Hassenfuss are.

[PatrickHenry]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072906F.shtml

A Ranger captain was assigned to investigate the death of Pat Tillman-Richard Scott, then commander of Headquarters Company, 2/75 Rangers. Scott carried out his task with integrity, and the Article 15-6 investigation was completed in two weeks. That investigation determined two things: (1) The fellow Rangers who shot Tillman (and an Afghan that the military has never credited with a human being's name) violated their own rules of engagement and were possibly criminally negligent and (2) that the order that led to splitting the platoon-one vigorously and rightly opposed by the platoon leader on the ground-was responsible for setting up the communications breakdown that resulted in the incident. It is not legal in the military to dispose of investigations or to compel or allow witnesses to change statements, and then make the original statements disappear, but that is precisely what happened in the case of Pat Tillman. When Kauzlarich took over the investigation from Scott, Kauzlarich's role in the incident disappeared and criminal charge recommendations were transformed into wrist-slapping nonjudicial punishments. Even before the first investigation was complete-nay, even before Tillman's unit returned from the field to conduct an "after-action review" to determine what happened-everyone in Tillman's chain of command, including Kauzlarich, appears to have conspired to draft a recommendation for a Silver Star award as part of the intentional development of a fictional account to cover up the fratricide. This was in April-May 2004. And for those who don't remember, these months were a catastrophic cascade of setbacks, bad news and rank scandal, including the dual rebellion in Iraq and the first public release of the Abu Ghraib photos. The death by fratricide of a famous young man (who was resisting the Department of Defense efforts to turn him into a jingo icon) ran headlong into the DoD public affairs narrative of precision and professionalism (in an elite unit). That was very bad news. But with every stick, there is a carrot. If this story could be covered up, for just a while, it had spin capacity. Pat could be turned into a martyr-jingo icon. An account could be constructed that would map directly onto the television-stunned social imagination of the American public. A tale worthy of the arrested development of a nation that believes in the fantasies of masculine adolescence. And that is precisely what they did, Kauzlarich included. They drafted a Silver Star and a docudrama lie about an intense encounter with a determined enemy in which the obedient patriot sets an example worthy of a recruiting poster. A Tom Clancy joint. The real Pat Tillman was not only of no use, he was a net negative. Real people get in the way. They never counted on his brother Kevin discovering that there was an initial investigation that vanished. They never counted on a mother and father who were strong enough to demand the truth about what had happened, and determined enough to rescue the real person that was Pat Tillman from the spin machine into which the Pentagon tried to feed his body. Pat himself, after seeing the Iraq war firsthand and declaring it to be "so fucking illegal," quipped to his fellow soldiers that the military seemed to be so inept that it couldn't even construct a credible lie. How prescient was that?

[PatrickHenry]

Pat's brother's statement: Truthdig - Reports - After Pat’s Birthday

By Kevin Tillman Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document. It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out. Much has happened since we handed over our voice: Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military. Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated. Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe. Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world. Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world. Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman

[ise]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Stan Goff | Playing the Atheism Card Against Pat Tillman's Family A Ranger captain was assigned to investigate the death of Pat Tillman-Richard Scott, then commander of Headquarters Company, 2/75 Rangers. Scott carried out his task with integrity, and the Article 15-6 investigation was completed in two weeks. That investigation determined two things: (1) The fellow Rangers who shot Tillman (and an Afghan that the military has never credited with a human being's name) violated their own rules of engagement and were possibly criminally negligent and (2) that the order that led to splitting the platoon-one vigorously and rightly opposed by the platoon leader on the ground-was responsible for setting up the communications breakdown that resulted in the incident.

But for Senator McCain the truth would never have come out. "The fellow Rangers who shot Tillman" was as green as Tillman. He was to blame to a minute extent compared to the officer responsible for splitting the platoon for the sake of a broken Humvee. That bastard countermanded the officer on the ground who wanted to dump the Humvee. That I know of, that bastard has never been held accountable. How many more deaths is he responsible for, yet the grunts get it in the neck.