NH: Free Staters rush to defense of DL refusenik

[Milton Bradley]

Rick makes some valid points, but glosses over the true intent of the protest, the rejection of the United Nations, and their anti-sovereingty policies.


Sometimes it's better to look for the common ground.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Rick makes some valid points, but glosses over the true intent of the protest, the rejection of the United Nations, and their anti-sovereingty policies. Sometimes it's better to look for the common ground.

I am not necessarily opposed to a forum for discussion between soveriegn states. Other than Russell pestering a clerk about not much and footage of flag burning and sledding, the issue itself was never raised. If the intent of the protest was to communicate a position it failed.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: RickSp I am not necessarily opposed to a forum for discussion between soveriegn states.

Neither am I, but I know these people have an agenda beyond the obvious. I suspect he know his audience knows this as well.

Quote by: RickSp Other than Russell pestering a clerk about not much and footage of flag burning and sledding, the issue itself was never raised. If the intent of the protest was to communicate a position it failed.

I agree, I thought your critiques were legitmate, and on target.

[brien]

Quote by: DadaOrwell2 Seems like there is a really wide mix of level headed debate and wild insult flinging here... Maybe the best thing is just to observe russell interacting with bureaucrats and decide for yourself whether he is a bufoon or a genius. Here's a mini documentary a vermont videographer did about him a couple years ago YouTube - NHFree - 2nd Annual UN Flag Burning Russell is the first face you see, the bearded guy with the blue jacket. I'm the guy with the beige sweater and the glock on my hip :)

Yes, I insulted the guy because he deserves it. My personal contact with him on the Free State site showed me he is a intolerant stubborn jerk. He immediately attacked me as a "statist" after my initial posts. He was the reason I disassociated myself with the movement. I attended Keene State College in 1971 while living in W Chesterfield, NH so I know Chesire and Sullivan Counties well. I lived in the Hanover area for many years and my children are NH natives born in Lebanon, so I am very familiar with NH and its politics. It is people like Kanning that do the LP a real disservice because people who may be considering the LP as an alternative to the two major parties see Kannning's radical acts as unacceptable fringe politics and then associate his ideology with the LP. He ia an admitted anarchist and his actions confirm it. You can have him.

I understand that the FSP is not a LP sponsored movement, however the sooner the FSP purges it ranks of anarchists like Kanning, the sooner it may grow into a movemment that may appeal to more moderate political voters. Good luck.

[Osborn F Enready]

Even I think Russel goes too far sometimes, and people call me an extremist...

I respect Russels dedication to change, I just wish he could harness it more and put it to more effective and efficient use.

I support the FSP entirely, but like any movement it has a fringe on both sides of the moderate middle, conservative, moderate, extremist.

I don't see much use in "displays" like the flag burning, since to many Americans actions like this are asociated to extremists, and extremism is fine to protect liberty, once all other methods fail, but we aren't there yet. Luckily Rusell is one of the few pushing the boundaries in this way.

Dada, thanks for the updates, and as always, GO FSP!

[Milton Bradley]

Besides, extremists in the flavor of Russel are far easier to get along with than extremists of so many of the other flavors out there. ( Muslim, Christian, Authoritarian, Nanny Staters, etc...)

[brien]

They may be easier to get along with but they can contaminate the hard work accomplished by people seeking to widen the acceptability of third party movements like the LP. People who don't know will paint everyone with Kanning's brush, and that isn't just or fair. The guy in no way represents the LP but people who don't know, and other who wish to discredit the LP, will associate him with it. Geez, look at the Democrats, they have successfully marginalized Lyndon La Rouche, and he is a member of their party. I will work long and hard to alienate and marginalize Kanning from the LP.

[RickSp]

I agree with Brien. Better to have folks get annoyed by Hari Krishnas in saffron robes rather than by a crackpot calling himself a libertarian.

If folks think of libertarians as nutcases wearing overalls and carrying pitch folks invading government offices, as Kanning and his buddies did not long ago, they sure as hell aren't going to take the ideas seriously.

[Milton Bradley]

I agree, I agree, I was just commenting on the marginalization of the viewpoint because it was "extremists".


My contention was that as far as extremists go, this is the most palatable flavor in my opinion. This guy is harmless, if we remove the context of the current political atmosphere.


Thats all I was saying.

[Osborn F Enready]

I think that is what Russel is trying to point out also Milton, but he has an odd way of doing it in my opinion.

[RickSp]

I am not opposed to political theater. The problem is that it is hard to do well.

Four years ago when the City of New York was about to pass a law effectively banning of toy guns, a group of Libertarians decided to stage a protest by giving out toy guns to kids.

It was a fiasco. These chubby white guys tried to hand out toy guns in Harlem. They were late and missed the dismissal of a local school. So they wandered around trying to find kids to give toy guns to only to have local parents yelling at them. These parents thought that there were enough real guns on the streets, so toy guns weren't a good idea. Of course this was all caught on local news cameras. It even turned up on the Comedy Channel's "Daily Show" where the libertarians looked like real jerks.

Local Political Group Greeted By Angry Parents As They Try To Hand Out Toy Guns In Harlem

Another chubby white guy, Michael Moore, tried similar street theater in Harlem after the Amadou Diallo shooting and did much better. He was funny and he engaged the folks on the street who were happy to join in the joke. It is absurd, well produced and it gets the message across. Like so much of Moore it is not overlay fair but is quite funny.

Michael Moore- The Awful Truth

[Milton Bradley]

Truthfully, I hadn't even considered the possibility that it could have been political theater.


If that is the case, then I offer up a duel touche, as I failed to dodge, or perry those last two thrusts.

[RickSp]

I notice that Dada can't be bothered to stay for a chat. He seems to drop in from time to time but never really enter the conversation. A shame.

[brien]

Rick; You have a excellent insight into how politics really play out at the grass roots level. My hat is off to you.

[Osborn F Enready]

I agree Rick, it is a shame that Dada doesn't drop in more often, as the guy really is intelligent which many would see if he stuck around to debate more.

I'll PM him to see if he can drop in a bit more frequently, as I think he can add quite a bit to the debate.