Hating America Is NOT Wrong

[grandpa]

I've seen in my local bookstore a series of books called "The Politically Incorrect Guide." It tackles a variety of different issues, all basically from a rightwing perspective (one book even suggests it dismantles the theory of evolution). I've honestly been tempted to buy at least one of them, and not just for a few good laughs. I'd honestly like to know how supporting the status quo is "politically incorrect" in any meaningful way. It's true that there is an aspect of American culture that could be called the PC left, but why the need to pretend this cultural trend is increasingly more impactful than, say, the Iraq War? More generally, has not the Neo-Conservative/Religious Right experienced a strong and not entirely nascent influence over America?

Such books as the PIG series--that's actually an abbreviation they use, and they also use a little piggy as a mascot on virtually every page--give the impression that rightwing, establishment views are the underground and that people with Leftist inclinations are on the top and cruelly dominant (this is, of course, when "liberals" aren't portrayed as extremely to the margins and small in number). Fox News's Fred Barnes even wrote a book on President Bush called "The Rebel In Chief," which obviously implies that Bush rebelled his way into the White House (apparently, being a rich, white and well-connected son of a President now constitutes rebellion).

I would not say the Left is completely at a loss, of course. For example, there actually seems to be a growing consensus in America that pollution is harmful and that Climate Change is real. It's also very obvious that "liberal" predictions about the disastrous Iraq War were highly accurate. From any practical standard it's now incorrect to say the Iraq War is a great success, so technically it'd be politically incorrect as well.

But what about the fact that variations of the radical Left were born out of struggles against systems of domination, and therefore "politically incorrect" in their own right? For a decent historical example of this we can consider Mother Jones, a great figure of the American left. She was once called "the most dangerous woman in America" because, among other things, she organized children working in mills and mines in the "Children's Crusade" to oppose the childrens' 55 hour workweek. The "Children's Crusade" was a 1903 march from Kensington, Pennsylvania to Oyster Bay, New York, the home of President Theodore Roosevelt, where they walked with banners demanding "We want time to play!" and "We want to go to school!" This is perhaps even a modest example of why people move in a Leftist direction, but a great glimpse into what "politically incorrect" has meant historically.

In the spirit of such political incorrectness, I'd like to make a common sense point: Even though plenty of liberals/leftists do not hate America, it's important to note that hating America is not some great immoral crime. In fact, a good argument could be made that it's THE morally acceptable attitude to adopt for the abstract entity called America. For example, why love an entity that not very long ago instituted chattel slavery? Or how about the fact that the FCC exists? Or how about the naivete involved in believing politicians can adequately represent our interests? I can hardly even claim to represent my own interests, so how could some brainwashed rich guy I don't even know, who spends my taxmoney on bombing campaigns I don't even agree with? These are some practical questions and, if we're at all in tune with reason, it'll make us at least dislike America a bit. Personally, I think that with each passing day I could probably find yet another reason to hate America and not even feel guilty about it. In fact, it'd be an entertaining way to use a calendar. It needn't even be the kind of hate that threatens my own mental health, but rather a constructive one.

This attitude of mine shouldn't surprise anyone. The very existence of any type of warfare or authority title makes humans look contemptible, like they can't even govern themselves. And it's even worse when you suspect people actually could govern themselves, only they've been brainwashed by institutions that dominate us and our resources in order to establish American Culture, Inc. And, of course, there are examples of people governing themselves in non-hierarchical, relatively non-coercive ways.

This brings me to a caveat: When I say "Hate America," I of course don't mean literally every person within its imaginary boundaries or every aspect of it's culture---though even that negative view would have no worse impact than goose-stepping patriotism. I mostly mean I despise hierarchical, so-called "representative governance" and a cultural system that, taken as a whole, seems to shun intellectualism. But to go again into the hypothetical, more extremely politically incorrect realm, let's say I actually express genuine hatred for literally anyone serving in the military. What if I suggest all the troops are simply terrible people? I might upset some people, but who cares? What's the big deal? At worst it'd mean I've got a bad attitude and that I'm unfairly generalizing (though those claims are debatable as well). The point is, unless I have magical powers I'm unaware of, such hostile viewpoints aren't nearly as deadly as pushing buttons to drop bombs on cities full of "Dune Coons" in the Middle East (I've actually heard that term used, along with the term "Palesimian"--proving that patriotism still easily ties into genuinely racist sentiments).

So why are people patriotic? Any smartly run institution of power and privilege will promote itself as sacrosanct and (embarassingly often) as absolutely essential to human survival. Of course, any rational person should be able to understand that:

A. no politician or voting process is essential to anyone's survival and that

B. existing instutions could be peacefully and fairly made less hierarchical, perhaps even to increase the odds of human survival.

But such elementary observations are easily lost in the thick smog of patriotism and general ideology. Patriotism is indeed a weapon, perhaps the best tool for shaping people into usable and disposable tools for state (and, of course, corporate) power. So, next time some rightwing sycophant accuses you of hating America for not being patriotic enough, why not "outpig the pigs," so to speak, and just say "thank you"?

Grandpa h.

[saltinespike]

I agree. Well, halfway.

I don't think it's wrong for other countries to hate America. Simple reason. We are so freakin' arrogant. If your coworker came into work every day and went "I'm the best person here!!!" you would hate him. And if he was right, you'd hate him even more. You couldn't challenge him to a fight because he was the buffest, hardest working, paid-the-most guy there.

As for our citezens hating America, I say that you either like it or leave. Nothing is tying you down here (other than a few exceptions, such as felons).

[grandpa]

Quote by: saltinespike As for our citezens hating America, I say that you either like it or leave. Nothing is tying you down here (other than a few exceptions, such as felons).

While I've considered leaving, that wasn't even the point of my post. I indicated numerous times that it's practical to hate America because it is a state government, and the points in my post are obviously intended to extent to hierarchies in general.

Grandpa h.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: grandpa And what on earth would leaving accomplish? That wasn't even the point of my post. Grandpa h.

If you hate your country the point is, why live here? If you are a disaffected minority who has no chance of ever making the changes you want, I am SURE there is some country out there that would better suit you.

Go there and hate America, otherwise living here, reaping all the rewards yet claiming to "hate" America is just arrogantly ludicrous.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio If you hate your country the point is, why live here? If you are a disaffected minority who has no chance of ever making the changes you want, I am SURE there is some country out there that would better suit you. Go there and hate America, otherwise living here, reaping all the rewards yet claiming to "hate" America is just arrogantly ludicrous.

Being here isn't just about reaping rewards, nor is this post only about America--but any hierarchical political system by any name.
People don't just leave a serious problem to get worse, they address it.

Grandpa h.

[saltinespike]

I think that you are quite ignorant. Do you believe that holding a foreign country together while defending one's own defines a "horrible person"? It would be different if you disagreed with GWB's descisions, but calling soldiers horrible... I don't know.

Since I only skimmed your first post, I can't tell if you are right or left. So what do you suggest? Communism? Fascism? Absolute anarchy?

Even if it is arrogant, we are the greatest country in the world. It could be natural pride, but I have yet to be disproven. Why am I patriotic? Because I live in America. Yes, the priveledges are a part of it, but why shouldn't it be? Go ahead and leave. Contact me when you get a decent job and could be living as well as one would in America. Air conditioning, freedom of religion, tolerance of race, religion, and all-out opinions. A place without racism. Once you find a country that has the advantages of America, why aren't they as huge as America (popularity)?

[Osborn F Enready]

I don't hate America, I hate what it has become.

I don't choose to leave because it is my right, and obligation to change it, since it has deviated outside its limited scope of authority.

I don't respect the people who say things like "love it or leave it", since they obviously have no idea what Americas history is, or was meant to be as a nation.

This is a self-governed nation, and until tyranny takes over and crushes the resistance by force or exclusion, I am going to be a big fat thorn in the authoritarian sides that have seemed to dominate the extreme left and right of American politics.

I have as much right to be here as any born citizen, and I have served which is more than a lot of you "pro gubbmint" types can say, though some of you have served, with honor.

Perhaps you should check that attitude with the Bill of Rights?
Perhaps you could fight your own political battles instead of relying on big money corporations to support your fight with campaign money and rigged media?
Perhaps you could actually bear the burden of your authoritarian wet dreams which you seek to impose on all those not cardboard copy like you, in every way?

Then again, maybe not.

I could care less, the door works for you as easily as me, and chances are if you support the bi-partisan monopoly, you have more money than I too, which means its easier for you to go. Ta, we won't miss you.

I believe your side has been issued this chance before?

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
-Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio If you hate your country the point is, why live here? If you are a disaffected minority who has no chance of ever making the changes you want, I am SURE there is some country out there that would better suit you. Go there and hate America, otherwise living here, reaping all the rewards yet claiming to "hate" America is just arrogantly ludicrous.

If you are so enamored of a strong executive branch, and so obviously desire a king that rules by "executive order" and "signing statements" and vocally oppose any opposition by the other two branches of government, agree with curtailments of the liberties guaranteed by the Bill Of Rights, then why don't YOU go and find some nice, authoritarian country to live in?? North Korea might just fit your ideal of the perfect society, total obediance to your "leader" being your definition of patriotism. You are the one that condones the actions of the current administration - domestic wiretapping, curtailment of freedom of speech, a war of conquest built on a foundation of lies, complete and utter failure to secure our borders, out-of-control fiscal policies, abolishment of habeas corpus, and many other excesses perpetrated by bush and his cronies. You seem to be the one that wants to change America into something it was never intended to be, so why don't YOU get the fuck out??

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: grandpa Being here isn't just about reaping rewards, nor is this post only about America--but any hierarchical political system by any name. People don't just leave a serious problem to get worse, they address it. Grandpa h.

See now you are confused... do you hate America, or just the present political climate?

If you HATE America.. audios, I am sure there is a country out there to suit you.

If it's the political climate, you must have some love for your country to want to change it.

I believe you should move to France personally.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Zeebadee If you are so enamored of a strong executive branch, and so obviously desire a king that rules by "executive order" and "signing statements" and vocally oppose any opposition by the other two branches of government, agree with curtailments of the liberties guaranteed by the Bill Of Rights, then why don't YOU go and find some nice, authoritarian country to live in?? North Korea might just fit your ideal of the perfect society, total obediance to your "leader" being your definition of patriotism. You are the one that condones the actions of the current administration - domestic wiretapping, curtailment of freedom of speech, a war of conquest built on a foundation of lies, complete and utter failure to secure our borders, out-of-control fiscal policies, abolishment of habeas corpus, and many other excesses perpetrated by bush and his cronies. You seem to be the one that wants to change America into something it was never intended to be, so why don't YOU get the fuck out??

You're a fool maybe? That whole diatribe you labored to write has about.. oh zilch to do with how I feel about our Government or this Country... BUT because I have from time to time Supported Bush, you hold me in some box of your own, WEAK imagination and cannot be bothered with reality.

Zee: "ZOMG Mr. Vic supported Bush on somehting he must be BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Reality: ".... wow you got issues dude, serious issues"

[castille]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I don't hate America, I hate what it has become. I don't choose to leave because it is my right, and obligation to change it, since it has deviated outside its limited scope of authority.

Who says? God? Adolf Hitler's love slave? You don't have a "right" to change your nation, you either have the ability or you do not.

[Century 25]

I would say it is the scumbags running the show.. not "America".. the people are.. although maybe ignorant (by design) they are most giving & generous to a fault..

We have essentially no control over what our.. "government" is up to.. having been bought & paid for long ago.. voting.. HA..!! what a joke..

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio BUT because I have from time to time Supported Bush, ....

Oh yeah, "from time to time"......heh....

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Zeebadee Oh yeah, "from time to time"......heh....

And?

I have stated here before my points of disagreement with the President, obviously with people like you, any item of agreement is grounds for baseless, false and slanderous claims.

[Matt W]

An interesting little article....

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | 'Death to US': Anti-Americanism examined

'Death to US': Anti-Americanism examined The US is perceived by many as an international bully, a modern day imperial power. At this critical moment in history, Washington correspondent Justin Webb challenges that idea. He argues anti-Americanism is often a cover for hatreds with little justification in fact. His three part series takes him to Cairo, Caracas and Washington but it begins where anti-Americanism began - in Paris.

[Osborn F Enready]

Castille said: Who says? God? Adolf Hitler's love slave? You don't have a "right" to change your nation, you either have the ability or you do not.

I have a right to sanction it by silence, interact with it for change, or rebel against it should it become unquestionably, and provably unjust according to the clear limitations within the Constitution.

I have no obligation to obey unjust, unconstitutional law, and an enumerated right to petition of redress, and to a republican form of government.

Our government only has the power given by the Constitution, and accepted by the people, regardless of what changes are made unless Constitutional line of authority can be clearly derived from the text.

A site that can help explain one perpetuated fraud by our system of government. Its not my educational source, but it is a nice topic cover explanation.
Out of Credit Card & Unsecured Debt, Our Banking History, Money Creation & Much More.

There are many to list, and you could really find out if you applied yourself.

Its not about hating America, and what it once stood for, but what it has been tolerated to become, by its own people, and other nations who bought into the same investment conspiracy.

[GHook93]

I refuse to read you arrogant and ignorant rate. It is utterly wrong for an American or anyone that is in this country to hate it. I hope if you truely do hate American you will get out and live in a free, open and lovely country like the Congo, Iran, Yeman, Lebannon, Syria etc.

[tinybear]

Hating America isn't wrong if you're not a US citizen. If you are and you hate America, you should renounce your citizenship at once.

[brien]

I think there is a profound difference between hating the US and disagreeing with the government of the US. I prefer the latter.

[Laharl]

There is nothing wrong in hating america if you're a citizen. I'm a citizen and I don't like it. Well, I don't like the way the government is run, with all their scams and other underground activities that they run. Truth is that there is something screwed up in every political system, and it's close to impossible to find a politician that is completely honest. I hate the government especially Bush because his selfish ambitions has led many of our young people to death in Iraq. Don't get me wrong I love America I love the freedom I love living here, I just don't like how the government is run, especially by our arrogant, selfish president.